Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

I've been experimenting with Mist (Ev. 3) and have some questions. It says in the spell manual that Mist 'will limit sight and the range of all spells and missiles', but I haven't found the range of missile weapons to be reduced. Starting my guys all the way back the indie archers were still able to reach them with little movement. However I did notice their precision being reduced by 6. Isn't this what Storm does?

I guess Storm has the added effect of not allowing flight (haven't tested mist for that, but I'm guessing you can fly in the mist). Does Storm change precision by the same amount (6) or more? and are there any other differences?

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

Can Caelum still fly in a storm? What about spells like lightning? I'm assuming that the precision drop is for all ranged actions (spells and missiles) or are some unique spells immune to the penalty (like the spells that function underwater?)

Also a question on Orb Lightning... it says the mage gets one bolt per level in air, but when I cast it I get one clump of bolts (actually I can't tell if its multiple bolts or not) that all hit the same square. Is it just a mass damage for one square or should there be a bit more spread?

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

Thanks for the replies; clarification is helpful. Also I didn't know that with Storm half the missiles get discarded.

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Storm warriors/generals are supposed to be able to fly in a storm, though Caelum's archers are still useless.
Back in Dom I, the stately age of the "hold and attack commanders" script, Caelum got GOOD RESULTS outta Storm.
Wouldn't know about the lightning, though it doesn't really stand to reason, does it?

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For what I've seen, Mist does not reduce missile range, and yes this contradicts the manual.
Mist gives -6 (or is it -5) to all units, as a lump sum. Storm gives -50% precision, but does not affect the experience/air magic bonus.
So no difference between Storm and Mist for the classic, prec 10 or 11 archer.
Curiously, those spells are cumulative (I expected to see the fog removed by a good storm, but no).
FIY Darkness gives -75% prec.
Cheers

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

Mist prec reduction
Storm prec reduction & 50% of all fired missiles are discarded.

I do not know if they are cumulative. They should not be.

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just made a short test. I made a army with an Air9 mage (experience 3 stars), longbowmen (3 stars) and mooseriders (no stars).
First battle : the mage casts Storm, then Mist. After Storm, his Prec (base 14 + 9 for the magic + 3 for the experience = 26) is 19. After Mist, he has 15.
The LB have 13 (10 + exp), then 8 after Storm, then 5 after Mist. The riders have a base of 8, they have 4 after a Storm and 2 after a Mist.
I also tested Mist before Storm, it is _exactly_ the same. Mage has 19 then 15, LB have 8 then 5 and riders have 4 then 2.

Conclusions :
- both spells do reduce prec by 50%, not counting the bonuses. The only difference = 50% of all missiles are "lost" in Storm (they are not fired), not in Mist.
- Storm and Mist are cumulative.
Cheers

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just made a short test. I made a army with an Air9 mage (experience 3 stars), longbowmen (3 stars) and mooseriders (no stars).
First battle : the mage casts Storm, then Mist. After Storm, his Prec (base 14 + 9 for the magic + 3 for the experience = 26) is 19. After Mist, he has 15.
The LB have 13 (10 + exp), then 8 after Storm, then 5 after Mist. The riders have a base of 8, they have 4 after a Storm and 2 after a Mist.
I also tested Mist before Storm, it is _exactly_ the same. Mage has 19 then 15, LB have 8 then 5 and riders have 4 then 2.

Conclusions :
- both spells do reduce prec by 50%, not counting the bonuses. The only difference = 50% of all missiles are "lost" in Storm (they are not fired), not in Mist.
- Storm and Mist are cumulative.
Cheers </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">so Mist really is the poor man's Storm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
What a great defense against missiles - if you were able to cast both of the above not much is going to hit.

Here's another qu.: Storm (IIRC) is supposed to make using fire magic harder. Does Mist have this same effect?

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Orb Lightning has a fairly short range (15). If there are many targets within that range that are close to each other - a few squares apart - it tends to target several of them. If there are only a few, it tends to target only one or two. If the units are more spread out, but still within range, it still seems to mostly (solely) target one basic direction.

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

So it (mist) does NOT limit range? And it is cumulative (despite dev protest to the contrary)? Do you suppose they will then change this, or will it be kept?
What can a missile-strong nation (Man for example) do against mist/storm?

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

Use Wind Guide.

A more appropriate question is what does Man do against Arrow Fend.

The answer is: Nothing, they use other units when it gets into that sort of game. More than likely trying to use Wrathful Skies/Thunder Ward.

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wind guide won't make up for stacked Mist/Storm. Even with just Storm 50% of your arrows are discarded, which is something of a blow (no pun intended).

Your answer [using other units] is absolutely right though, which is why longbows are typically an early to mid-game tactic.

[ February 22, 2004, 18:16: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Re: Mist: the poor man\'s Storm
 

I've found even in a Storm with Mist, if you have enough longbows (And who doesn't?) that they are still very effective. Normally with just Storm Longbowmen are still semi-decent and I've found the same with Mist/Storm. Not to say that they don't counter most other types of arrowfire, but longbows being so easy to produce, and with such good normal accuracy and not being xbows (thus firing every round) they still have their place, albeit not nearly as much as without.

Xbows on the other hand get torn up by Storm and with Mist, would be compeletely useless. Shortbows were never any good beforehand, and Composite Bows are just a scratch above shortbows. Javelins are so-so in a Storm/Mist, as being close to the enemy means you are usually going to hit something if you are near it.

The good thing about Mist/Storm though, is it only takes 5 Evo (1 Level below Ench 6 for Arrow Fend) or 4 Const + 3 Evo to put a hurting on any arrow nations.