New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I know everyone has their idea on things and I know the devs get a truckload of requests but I would love a bad *** knight commander as a pretender. I mean...how cool would it be to have an Uber Knight Lord who basically had mages and priests around to deal with the "cowardly" nations that use such ignoble means to achieve victory?
I love the Iron Faith theme and I have had some good success with it gaming in my circle of 6 buddies. We are all very very new to Dom-(which may explain my success)-but we all love it. But how out of character is it for my Iron Faith Ulmites to be ruled by A.) A Rainbow Mage Human or B.)Super Combatant Non-Human. I see Iron Faith Ulm as being led by an almost fanatical desire to eliminate magic and magical beings.
Anyone familiar with DragonLance out there? I'm sure probably everyone...lol...but the Knight Commander could be in the mold of either Lord Soth or Sturm BrightBlade-(Good vs Evil Ulm). I just wish my choices for a human pretender weren't limited to mages I guess. Especially with the ability to rename commanders...Dom is a great mix of rpg and fantasy wargame...now let me roleplay my nation the way it should be!!
Heh heh heh...can anyone give me an idea why I might be off base or maybe even a "Good idea Hawkmoon, we're on it!"...

PS Please don't mention modding to me as my crew and I are about worthless for anything except for gaming, emailing, web surfing or running business related programs. Not looking for wholesale change...just a hardcore Knight Lord for Ulm is all.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

then again you need to explain WHY a simply but strong knight would try to become god. When you look at the current pretenders most have a goal lich queen finally mastered death itself now only has one goal left, or the lord of the hunt blabla is trying to the forests alive or blabla the prince of death whatever, they all have certain goals that make them look like pretenders, i dont see a knight would try to become god, except for the glory and honor and stuff.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

RagnarokX
Knight would become god because of blah blah, like all others ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Frankly I don't think that the fact that you can't have a rationale for it should be a mjor issue..
I like Hawkmoon idea, I feel that there's a lack of non-giant fighting pretenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

@ragnarok
If you fought anyone/-thing, and beat it, what is left to fight? Death himself ...

@hawkmoon
Choose the Arch Mage, deck him out, see him die nevertheless, have you priest call him back what doesn't do him much bad as you wouldn't have him started with magic paths anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

mmh, sound more like an "eternal knight" than an "immortal knight", but he's striving for true immortality anyway, doesn't he?

[ February 21, 2004, 15:47: Message edited by: Arralen ]

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Hmmm...why would a Knight want to attain Godhood...a good question...with only one really good answer, how many do you need though..right?


1. Knight in question drew the sword from the stone so to speak and has been granted immortality along with a host of badness he can dish out now. Thus armed with eternal life, a weapon of legend and the skill and will to use it, he executes his dream of unifying the land under his rule. This doesn't have t be a sword mind you, could be a lance, armor, crown, helm, etc...but that would be the most logical explanation. Artifact induced immortality that allows him to lead the Great War.

2. Why must he fight for Godhood? Or even desire to attain Godhood? He has known warfare for as long as he has lived, tiring of the never ending battle and wishing for another Golden Age, he decides to rid the world of pretenders, thus unifying his land once and for all and inadvertantly becoming a God himself. Of course you could take the "evil" side of this also...

3. His heart filled with pride and yet poisoned at the same time with the realization that Ulm will never again regain the glory that once was, Commander Hawkmoon lashes out at the world, determined to expunge all others and reforge the Empire that once was.

I don't know...there are sharper people than me out there but those are some possible scenarios and far more interesting than the descriptions on a few of the pretenders IMHO...

Hawkmoon

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Hawkmoon,

I believe the present mod tools allow you to mod a new Ulm pretender of this nature if you should so desire.

And I like your explanations. Of course, my take on Iron Faith is that all magic practiced OUTSIDE the faith is evil and sacreligious. Of course, the pure magic of the pretender to whom the faith is devoted is sacred, holy, and righteous. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Yeah...if I were so inclined..I could learn to use the modding tools but I am basically lazy and short on time. What little time I do have is to be spent playing...As for the take on Iron Faith...to each his own...we are all a bit hypocritical anyway...why not in gaming as well...heh heh heh..."Magick is bad !! Err....except for any and all artifacts/spells/rituals that allow me to crush, conquer and retain my position of authority that is...heh heh heh...I eman...I cuold make a sort of Knight character out of the mounted mage as was suggested but I want my Knigh to look like a Knight and have some background fluff...ah well.....we all have hopes and dreams....

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I made a mod for essentially this same concept, called Warrior King of Ulm, though I haven't finished the graphics or added the new 2.08 modding touches yet. Maybe I'll try to finish that up.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it's quite simple to mod a Pretender.
If you want, post here the stats and abilities you want your KnightGod to have and I'd make it up - I'll use a Knight bitmap (choose the one you prefer from the ingame knights) and will have it replace the Alchimist (Ulm special Pretender). Basically that's what have been done in the HoburgSP mod, you can also have a look at it if you want to make it yourself ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

This would be a kickass idea as far as I'm conserned. An immortal combatant pretender that's not a vampire queen.

Personally I would just rip the stats for the Black Lord unit, perhaps add two to each attribute for good measure, slap the "immortal" power on him and leave him at that. Good solid 0 point pretender right there.

But I'm sure you guys will want to add one or two more powers on it just to spice things up a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I haven't read the 2.08 modding doc yet - just the mod description on the patch page. However, it sounds like there may still be a bit of a bother trying to get this to work perfectly, if we can't add new pretenders nor get rid of old abilities. I think the Alchemist is the only Ulm-only pretender, so we sort of have to use him, and he has three misc slots and the super-alchemy ability, which may not be possible to remove. So it may still not be impossible to get this entirely right yet.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Well...definitely looks like there is enough interest to grab K and J's attention at least. I have no idea what a "fair" statline would be for such a Knight Commander nor would I have a clue as to what "powers" to give him, I just know that I want one dangit...heh heh heh. And again...not really interested in modding the game...I don't think we're out of line asking for a new Pretender in a future patch. Making a new Pretender has to be far less arduous than making a whole new theme, you think ? Then again, I'm sure they have better things to do other than modify their product for the sake of a few squeaky hinges...never hurts to ask though, right ?

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Well considering this pretender will be part of a mod I personally think you might as well replace any suitable pretender. I would like this kind of unit available not just when I play Ulm. Couldn't the mounted archmage or the freaklord be replaced? As far as I've noticed they are pretenders that don't see much use anyways.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

You could, though the one I made was specifically Ulmish, and one needs to watch out for abilities that can't be cleared, though I assume #clear works better in 2.08 than in 2.06, in which case there may be little or no difficulties.

Ideally one could add pretenders choices to a nation, so you could have a Warrior Kings of Ulm mod offering various options without removing any.

But now we have leadership and path cost, we can do pretty close. I'll see if I can steal time soon to finish my shot at it.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Ok, I'm working on it now.

The problem with unwanted abilities on the pretender appears to have been solved in 2.08, as well as the needed abilities to mod starting dominion, path cost, and leadership values. Thanks Illwinter!!

So, the only real drawbacks now are that you lose a pretender choice in order to gain this one, and you can't add varieties of Kings to Ulm in one mod without offering them to several other nations at the same time. Also, the pretender effect on hitpoint based on domain strength isn't really thematic with a mortal king.

I thought another way to mod this would be to have a pretender Pope, and give the warrior king as a starting commander to Ulm. This would make sense because you can always ressurrect a pope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , but the King would be mortal and not subject to Domain effects on health. However, the warrior king unit would be a big advantage to Ulm even if they don't take the pope pretender, so it'd be unbalanced in that case, unless I chop down the number of starting military units Ulm has. Maybe that's the way to go.

Or, do all three - mods are easy enough to make, except for the graphics.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Hey:

I have just completed a mod similar to this one. I am not going to publically release it, since it blatantly steals the graphical work of Sube, unless Sube specifically authorizes it, but I do have 1 slight snag.

1) #domstr # is not changing the starting dominion strength

Pretender stats go thusly:

Hp: 50
Prot: 24(Full plate, helm, shield)
att: 14
Def: 18
Move: 2/25
Leadership: 125
MR: 18
Str: 16
Prec: 10
Morale: 30
Dominion Strength 2 (if it worked)
Path cost: 20
Pretender cost: 50
No starting paths
Heal
Trample

I was going to make him immortal, but I decided on healing instead...might change to immortal and back depending on mood.

Here is the #desc "As Ermor fell from grace, some of its heroes took up quests to prevent its ultimate demise. The White Knight was one such questor. He found an elixir of life, and drank deep of it. By the time he returned, however, Ermor had fallen. Great was his anger, and he blamed the death cults and mages for its demise. Now, armed, and guarded by steel, He will cleanse all magic, save his own, from this world."

The elixir could easily be a sword, a dove, a banana, whatever, but the elixir, ie the grail/chalice, would allow for #heal, or #immortal depending on flavor. Arthur and Excalibur was said to be invincible(immortal) while he held the sword, so that would also work, for flavor.

Edit: Also, fors and against would be cool as well. I tried to keep the stats reasonable for the cost, if you think its undercosted(or over) please chime in.

[ February 22, 2004, 00:19: Message edited by: Ctennyson ]

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

Specifically directed to PvK: They also apply to prophets, don't forget(the dominion hp bonus), so your Black Knight can end up with a boatload of hp now.

Just ignore the "Mortal King" thing. He's donning a "godly mantle" as the descriptions keep saying, and is no longer quite mortal.

If you consider a magicless Wyrm can become a God, why not a powerful knight? It's all about faith, once the populace believes in you, you gain strength. Take it in game context, and you'll be much happier.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I decided to make two different mods.

One turns the alchemist into an Avatar of Ulm, which is like yours, though with somewhat different stats. Every single other pretender has an MR of 18, and 18 is supposed to be the max for anything except certain otherworldlies, so I used 18. I didn't give either of them healing abilities. I did give them a 1000 path cost (practically impossible) to start with any magic paths.

The other is a Warrior King of Ulm, and he isn't the pretender. He's a starting commander, whose offsetting disadvantage is that while he's a great warrior, he can't be bothered with stately affairs, resulting in a 50 gold cost to Ulm's treasury while he is the king. Also the starting units are only him and ten maul infantry - this represents the expense and chaos of his recent coronation, and helps balance the advantage of having a supercombattant from turn 1. The Warrior king has lower stats that the Avatar Version, and is completely mortal (though he has a 15 MR), but he could of course be propheted (not the best idea, since then he'll be weak when attacking in enemy domain), and he'll most likely get a heroic ability, which the avatar Version can't since he's a pretender.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with it, though I haven't quite finished the attack graphic yet.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

The mr for mine is 18, 20 was a typo. Sorry =)

I dont think recuperation makes him a supercombattant, really. He's a fair fighter, but he isnt on par with very many of the real SCs. Course he is cheap, and his paths are 25, so while not an easy rainbow, he is kinda decent at both.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

PvK
Without ANY possible path (if I understood correctly your proposal), the Ulm Avatar isn't going to be really playable unless he has much more fighting power than a Dragon (who incidentally "only" has path cost= 80...)!
IMHO the Avatar could have Ulmish magic path (F+E). So an Ulm player choosing it will have a potential SC but forfeit any magic versatility he could have had with a RB .

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Johan K replied on the "bug" thread that there was a doc error, the correct command is #startdom
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I agree with the idea of having a knight(or better : several knights) pretender. And I don't think it should only be for Ulm.The first time I tried the Dom2 demo I was very confused about picking a pretender. In stategy games with heroes, just like in rpg, I tend to pick characters that correspond to my personality, that *could* be me, in a fantasy world. Especially for the first game, and after, well, I try different ones just for the kick. But really, the great mother and the freak lord... they are cool and funny, but I just can't get into the character. I know, it's kind of stupid, but I like to feel for my character.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you mean "really playable" or "balanced against other choices such as the dragon"?

For playable, I think it is, in some situations anyway. Against the AI, human ingenuity (and/or agressiveness) can survive without a magical pretender. Against a human, I think it is a pretty darn powerful starting unit. I think it might be stronger in early-game combat than a starting dragon, because he comes with some black steel equipment which gives him rather high starting stats, and he has lance/sword/hoof attacks, and a banner ability.

For balanced, my "King" Version is a starting commander rather than a unit, balanced hopefully by a 50-gold maintenance cost and reduced starting units. If you want a warrior king and a rainbow (or any other) pretender, use the Warrior King Version of the mod instead of the Avatar Version.

My avatar/pretender Version is probably weaker than a dragon for overall strategy, unless you play it as intended and use its leadership/banner ability and magic slots well - group him with black knights or templars, etc. It's really for players who want to play a no-magic combat pretender, and the focus is thematic rather than competetive. It doesn't make much sense to me for the mortal warrior savior of Ulm to be a magician as well. If he were cheaper with no magic, and a desired Drain scale, you'd end up with max positive scales, which seemed somewhat unthematic and had few interesting choices on creation. I think it can be competetive as is, at least for short/close games, single-player, etc. If you weren't really going to use the magic anyway, then this is a rather butch, but very costly, pretender.

PvK

[ February 24, 2004, 01:44: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I've sent my first Versions of the mods to Illwinter for posting.

vanedor, if you want multiple warrior kings, you can also use both of my mods at once and get (not quite identical) twins <g>.

PvK

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I'm going to sit down with my wife tomorrow night and really work on some photoshopping for my Version of the knight. She's artistically gifted, where as I am absolutely not.

Hopefully we can make it look decent, then I'll make him the way I'd like to play him. If anyone has tga's of all the Pretenders, send me msg, I'd love to mod all the pretenders into my own vision of each.

Re: New Ulm Pretender ?
 

I updated my Warrior Avatar of Ulm mod to a Version (1.05) that, if run in Dominions 2.11 or higher, won't replace the choice of Alchemist, but just adds the Warrior Avatar option. This means the option can be added without the minor fog of war loss that Ulm isn't using the Alchemist.

I know, I know, the world trembles with the significance of this update. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(It's not yet posted on the IW site though.)

PvK