What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

Was playing Online with a friend, and we both cast Gift of Health on the same turn.

Me: Nature Magic 5, 41 Gems used
Him Nature Magic 5, 51 Gems used

Despite using fewer gems, MY Gift of Health stuck, his never took affect. Does anyone know what determines which spell stays?

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

chance & probabilities ...

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

What are these probabilities specifically?

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

My understanding is that all casters cast their spells in random order.

I think that what mattered was who was randomly selected to cast their GoH first. Once a global spell is active, it must be dispelled before anyone else can have that spell under current rules.

He tried to cast GoH without dispelling your existing GoH. Automatic failure.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you absolutely sure that casting the same enchantment as an already-active one is an auto-failure? Reason I ask is because I have seen the AI replace GoH's of mine with its own without doing a Dispel first ...

[ February 23, 2004, 19:32: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

Arryn is correct... casting a global spell can take-out another global spell.

I've seen cases where Burden of Time has killed another global spell yet Arcane Nexus(150gems) could not.

Unfortunately only the developers can provide us the details as for how this works.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

You can dispel a global enchantment with another global enchantment. I had always thought this was based on gem input into the spell.

However, in the case Master Shake cited, I cast my Gift of Health first, and got the message that I had successfully cast it. Two Messages down the list was another "dire portent" informing me that another Gift of Health had overwhelmed mine.

The question is: what determines this dispel chance? My spell had 51 gems and was cast first, and his only had 41 and was cast afterward. Both were cast by mages with the same Nature skill.

Apparently, there is no requirement to use more gems than the spell you are dispelling. Is there always a small base probability that a global enchantment will dispel another, and using more gems simply increases this chance? If so, what is this base chance and what is the per-gem improvement to it? If not, what is this mechanism based on?

EDIT: I should make it clear that while I say my spell was cast "first," I am only inferring this from the fact that my spel report was listed first in the message list. Both were cast on the same turn. So I guess another question I have is whether this would have occurred differently had his spell been cast on the next turn rather than the same turn - are globals treated differently for dispel purposes when cast on the same turn rather than different turns?

[ February 23, 2004, 20:13: Message edited by: ceremony ]

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

ceremony is correct that his was cast first, and mine cancelled his. What surprised me was that I did this using fewer gems.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

There is an openended six side die added to the gem input of every global and dispelling attempt.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

No difference if cast during different or same turns.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

You guys are right in that casting a global spell can take out another global spell. That's in the rules.

But doesn't that happen only when all global spell slots are occupied?

My assumption...and perhaps I should not have made it...was that there were only one or two other global spells operating at the time.

Does anyone know whether you can "dispel" a prior global spell if there are additional slots left? I thought that you couldn't.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

You cannot have two of the same enchantment active, even if there are empty slots.

You can also try to dispel/replace any enchantment at any time, even if it's the only one that's active.

[ February 23, 2004, 21:11: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

I agree, Arryn, that you can't have two of the same enchantment active even if there are empty slots.

But does the second cast enchantment act to overwhelm the first? Or does it auto-fail? I thought it always failed, but it's starting to look as if I am wrong about that.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone by my poor understanding of the mechanics. I was going by the manual as I understood it.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

Let's assume there's only one global active, a GoH from some Ai. You try to cast your own GoH. If you get lucky on the die roll, your GoH will replace the AI's. It's that simple. There is no "auto failure", just bad luck.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, Kristoffer! It appears that I got extremely unlucky as I had put ten more gems into my spell than he did. So his open-ended die result beat mine by at least 11.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Arryn is correct - you can only have one instance of any global enchantment active at any one time. Any attempt to cast that same enchantment (even if there are fewer than five active enchantments) results in an attempt to dispel the original enchantment.

In the game we were playing, there was one global enchantment active - Mother Oak. Then both of us tried to cast Gift of Health.

One more question: if there are five enchantments active, and a player attempts to cast a sixth, which one does it attempt to dispel? A random one? A random one other than one already cast by him? The active enchantment with the fewest gems?

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, Kristoffer! It appears that I got extremely unlucky as I had put ten more gems into my spell than he did. So his open-ended die result beat mine by at least 11. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You also add the difference in skill of the caster and the path level of the spell to the gem cost of the spell and the dispel.

Your lvl 10 nature mage casts gift of health (lvl 5?) with 25 extra gems. Sum=30+D6(oe).
Dispelling astrologer has 3 astral. 35 extra gems. Sum=35+D6(oe).

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's either the one with the lowest base cost, or the one with the lowest number of gems used. I think it's the former, but I'm not sure.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

I went home and re-read the manual, such as it is, to determine if my earlier comments were just plain stupid. To the contrary, there's nothing in the manual to indicate that anything but the level 5 enchantment spell called Dispel can dispel an enchantment.

I haven't noticed the AI dispelling any of my spells by casting its own because I always put quite an excess of gems into my globals.

Arryn and Ceremony, the manual does answer your question. "If a sixth Global Enchantment is cast, it will have to overcome a randomly chosen global enchantment already in effect." (p. 27)

I'm glad you folks brought this up because it's taught me something new about the game.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know the manual states it's randomly chosen. But I'm not so sure this is actually true. My unscientific observations have hinted otherwise. A definitive answer from JO or KO would be appreciated. (The Dom manual is good, but I don't think it's 100% accurate on all matters ... that it actually covers.)

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know the manual states it's randomly chosen. But I'm not so sure this is actually true. My unscientific observations have hinted otherwise. A definitive answer from JO or KO would be appreciated. (The Dom manual is good, but I don't think it's 100% accurate on all matters ... that it actually covers.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I remember adding that particular part. It was based on info requested from Johan K. There's still the possibility it might have been misinterpreted, changed, or simply be buggy though.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's precisely this that I'm curious about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

It certainly would come as no surprise to me if the manual were incorrect.

If it is...I have a question...would that be a bug or a typo in the manual?

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

A newly cast global will

1: Take up a free slot (out of five possible).
2: Overtake the same global from another player regardless of global slots occupied by spells.
3: Dispel a random global slot and take that slot even if it was previously yours.

Events that might cause discrepancies:
* Someone casts a global spell. It might take place before your spell taking up a slot so your spell must dispel another spell.
* Someone casts dispel. The dispel might and might not take place before your global is cast. Thus you might replace a global and afterwards another global is dispelled giving a total of four spells.
* The caster of a spell might die. This usually happens after spellcasting. A global can replace another and then the caster dies in a battle giving four remaining globals.

Re: What determines whose Global spell sticks?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope that it is accurate on the matters it do covers.