misc questions
 

I am playing my first game of D2 and have the following (newbie) questions:

(1) My pretender god was listed in the Hall of Fame but never received a heroic ability. Why?

(2) In the recruit units screen there is a "Holy" status value listed. What does this mean? By the way, my 8-year old son was playing D2 and the holy value was wildy fluctuating to values like neagtive 32, negative 8, etc

(3) In the army setup screen, once you have selected a bunch of units is there any way to deselect them all whitout having to click on each one?

(4) Diplomacy: I understand that the game does not have a diplomacy model (I actually read an older thread on this forum on the topic), however I am wondering what triggers the AI to attack me or declare war via a message. Are my agressive actions against an AI nation "remembered" or does the AI compute this on a turn-by-turn basis? Are there certain nations that are fundamentally opposed and will naturally be more agressive with one another? Those of you who have played any Civ-based games will know where I am coming from.

Re: misc questions
 

(1) Pretenders do not receive heroic abilities.

(2) Holy is the number of sacred units (not includin commanders) you can recruit in a turn. You can queue up more than your Holy value as long as you have sufficient gold- this will take it negative. It will then recruit the maximum allowed per turn.

Your Holy value is the same as your maximum dominion - i.e. pretender starting dominion, +1 for every five temples built.

(3) There is a "Reset Recruitment" button at the bottom of the army recruitment screen.

(4) Having a small army and low provicial defense is the best way to get the AI to attack you. Make sure you build large prov defense in border provinces with the AI.

EDIT: Spelling (scared = sacred)

[ March 01, 2004, 16:47: Message edited by: ceremony ]

Re: misc questions
 

What ceremony said is of course right.
If I may add to (4):
- There is consensus that "We hereby declare war upon your unholy nation" is unpredictable.
- I think that if you attack the AI (*not*: you attack an independent nation that the AI also happened to have attacked the same turn and conquered too) it will become "more aggressive" towards you at least in the sense that it will want to have its old provinces back.

Re: misc questions
 

The engine itself does not appear to hard-code national antipathies.
The AI will also be willing to declare war if other avenues for expansion are less viable, even if you haven't blocked it yet. It would not surprise me if certain globals also served as provocation. Killing gods (possible to do this unintentionally if you enter the arena) also seems a likely trigger.

Re: misc questions
 

Ceremony, thanks for the answers on (1) and (2). Regarding (3) I was refering to the Army Setup Screen - not the Recruit screen.

Let me summarize both of your feedback to (4):
(A) small armies and low provincial defense = AI more likely to attack
(B) There is consensus that "We hereby declare war upon your unholy nation" is unpredictable
(C) Capturing an AI's province makes them more agressive towards you

(A) seems fairly obvious. As for (B) and (C) it would be REALLY nice if the D2 developers could either agree or disagree to the validity of these points, as well as state any other things that affect AI hostility towards you.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you'll take my word for it, based on numerous games I can confirm this one.

Re: misc questions
 

I actually like not knowing exactly what the AI is going to do.

But I agree with Arryn that taking the AI's provinces makes it more aggressive toward you.

It's sometimes funny to watch an AI that hasn't even found me yet in terms of national borders...maybe has a scout I can't see in my territory...declare war on me.

I would love some hard-coded national antipathies. Like marignon-ermor. Maybe atlantis-ry'leh(?sp). I think that would add some additional flavor to the game. But the game has plenty of flavor already. And I'm not sure if you'd want marignon and ermor to go at each other rather than attacking a player who seems to be winning.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To unselect the entire group, just "move" them to the same group they were in in the first place. In other words, if you have 5 archers and 5 javelineers in a group, and you select the 5 archers to move them but then decide against it, you can click into the group they're already in and it de-selects them (or move them into a new group then move them back... but that's extra effort). The only way to "partially" de-select a group is one at a time, though.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thnanks Arryn. Have you noticed if the number of AI provinces captured have a stronger effect? Does the AI "remember" previous hostilities even though he may have recaptured the provinces you stole from him?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For some reason this does not work for me. I can not select the same group they were in (nothing happens). I can select the leader of the group but it creates a new squad.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The AI doesn't remember, per se. What happens is committing "hostile acts" increases the chances of the AI considering you as "hostile" and responding. In my AAR, I'm pretty sure that I'm now at war with Vanheim, despite not even taking any of their provinces. What happened is that I attacked Man's capital on the same turn Vanheim did, and my pretender defeated the Vans. The next turn, Van tried again, while my pretender was sieging. Again I defeated Van. Turn after, Van attacks another of my provinces with Call of the Winds. Not exactly a peaceful thing for them to broaden the dispute ...

Basically, the AI viewed my attacking the same target as them, and defeating their armies as "hostile". Wouldn't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

OTOH, in a non-AAR R'leyh game, I had traded provinces with Man, Caelum, and Jotunheim for many turns. I eventually bloodied each of these nations very badly in the retaking of *my* provinces (provinces that I originally took from indies), and I built strong PDs, so they left me alone -- for several years. This left me free to devote my attention to smashing Pythium and Marignon, as I had never viewed those aforementioned three nations as a threat (until they became opportunistic).

Re: misc questions
 

Interesting observations and experiences Arryn - thanks. From the perspective of what the developers actually coded into the game, I wonder how much of the AI's agression or pacifism is based upon the available current opportunities or on your nation's past transgression?

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For some reason this does not work for me. I can not select the same group they were in (nothing happens). I can select the leader of the group but it creates a new squad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It does not work for me, either. If I select some members of a squad, the squad they are in does not become grey, meaning it is an invalid target for unit placement (much as non-mages don't become grey when you select magic units, or commanders with leadership zero don't become grey when you select any unit). Whenever I get into this situation (wanting to unselect a number of units) I usually have to hit Esc and exit the Army Setup screen entirely, then re-enter it. That's the only way I know of. If you find a way please post it!

As far as the AI and diplomatic status goes, Johan Osterman posted this a few months ago to another messageboard I read:

"The AI will most often keep the peace until he runs out of easy bordering independents. At that point it might attack one of its neighbours. The AI will also consider you at war if you attack one of its provinces; if you and the AI do not have any skirmishes for a few turns it will cease considering you at war. If you kill the AI's pretender, he will consider you at war for the whole game."

Note that the "lack of skirmishes" criterion is up to both you and the AI. Thus, if it finds easy provinces for conquest, it will keep attacking such, but if you manage to build up sufficient defenses that the AI considers an attack unwise, and it has no other options to attack you, and you maintain these defenses, eventually the AI will revert to a peaceful state.

In other words, once you go to war, your unilaterally stopping the war will not necessarily stop the AI from continuing it, but after several turns of peace on both your parts, the AI may call the whole thing off.

EDIT: typo

[ March 02, 2004, 01:28: Message edited by: ceremony ]

Re: misc questions
 

ceremony - regarding Johan's info regarding diplomacy - THANKS! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif For me to enjoy a game such as this, I need to have a general understanding of what triggers/ends enemy agression. I don't need to have all the details (but if Illwinter wants to provide more I'll listen!)

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Press Enter to deselct all units.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">An interesting quirk of diplomacy is that it seems the AI is not able to recognize "anonymous" summons as an attack. The most prominent one that comes to mind is Ghost Riders, but I think there are others: If you cast an independent summon on a province, the AI won't recognize that you attacked him, even if you subsequently claim the province as your own. I've been able to push an AI nation back to his home province on my front without him ever even attempting hostilities against me, because he didn't even realize I was doing it!

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks Johan! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am still new to the game - can you please give me an example of an "anonymous" summons versus a "normal" summons?

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Call of the Winds, Imprint Souls, Ghost Riders, etc.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Call of the Winds, Imprint Souls, Ghost Riders, etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK, so what's the difference between "anonymous" and not?

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It means that stuff happens to the enemy and they don't have any way to know who did it. As opposed to summoning an Angelic Horde right on top of an enemy. The spells I listed (for example) summon creatures, but they are treated as indies (well, CotW was a bad example, because that one is NOT anonymous) and your name does not show in the Messages report. Call of the Winds, Angelic Horde, and others, if summoned directly on top of an enemy, cause a battle that will be reported as you vs. them.

[ March 02, 2004, 20:14: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: misc questions
 

I'm pretty certain "Imprint Souls" also identifies itself as being an attack by you. After all, the hapless Imprintees stay around to be used as cannon fodder.

Ghost riders is the only battle-provoking spell I know of that is 'anonymous'. I'm not sure about things like 'the looming hell', and spells such as 'seeking arrow' don't provoke battles, just damage reports.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm positive it's anonymous. I've been the victim of it countless times ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: misc questions
 

It's only anonymous if the units don't belong to you, and thus show up as 'Special Monsters'. This includes Horrors, Ghost Riders, Manifestations, Earth Attack (special: will not attack you).
Imprint Souls is _not_ anonymous. Check your battle report; it'll tell you which AI cast it on you.
Nor, for that matter, are assassins; perhaps they should be, at least if they assassinate a leader and get away.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is there a random event that attacks a province with a mixed bag of ~20-30 militia & knights? (I know there's another one that's only knights.)

There was one game I was playing in which I was being attacked EVERY turn in 2-3 provinces by "Independents", always in the same amount and composition, for over 6 straight turns. I asked about it here in the forum and was told it was Imprint Souls.

[ March 03, 2004, 17:42: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: misc questions
 

Arryn --
Imprint Souls results in 2 Mad Priests with an army of madmen and fanatics, usually ~60 total per cast. Unless there's interaction with a mod going on, it won't generate kniggets.
Feudal-type attacks do happen due to randoms, although I don't see them very often. To my knowledge, no spell causes this sort of attack.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you. Then I'm wrong and it wasn't Imprint Souls as I do not recall any Mad Priests, nor did the attackers number ~60, but about half that.

Guess that pretty much limits the anonymous summons to just the Conjuration-9 Ghost Riders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myself and a few others I know have Banned Ghost Riders because it's so powerful especially against AI opponents. The wraith lord leading the pack is also extremely deadly. Based on what it does for the cost of only 5 gems... seems too powerful.

[ March 03, 2004, 18:21: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Seeking Arrow doesn't reveal the caster. It just says "an arrow fell out the sky."

With Looming Hell, the question seems more or less academic, since you can always see whose global enchantment it is anyway.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was kind of my point. There are plenty of spells that do damage, cause unrest or reduce population anonymously. But the only one I know of that causes a battle and is anonymous is "Ghost riders".

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm.. true! I guess I was a little too focussed on the issue of whether the battle itself is identified as an attack by independents or as a battle with the casting nation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Although, if it were identified as independents attacking, then the AI might not see it as a declaration of war even if a human player would look at the global enchantment screen and work out who to blame.

Re: misc questions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are a couple of cracking spells that are high in research cost but low in gem cost. I think - the only other example that comes to mind right now is another necro spell, Tartarian Gate.

Oh yes - Earth attack is another good one.

Wouldn't it be better to have an agreed mod that increased the gem cost, if that would make the spell usable in your opinions? Or is that hard to do? (I haven't played with the mod system yet)

Re: misc questions
 

It should be noted that Ghost Riders, while powerful for its cost of 5 gems, is nearly totally ineffective on any province with a Fort: The Ghost Riders will attack the province and kill your PD and patrollers, but can't neut the province because they don't stick around to siege the fort: Therefore, since you hold the fort, after a Ghost Rider attack, the province reverts to your control again even if you lost the battle.