OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Will anyone ever create a game in which fighting is not the only fun thing to do? (specifically MMORPGs or wargames focused on city-buidling)

I haven't seen a single game where warring is not the only fun thing to do. I'd like to see a game where you actually have a choice to just build a city or delve in the economy system.

I know why this is nearly impossible, because you really don't get anywhere by doing this. It's like living to live. When you are warring, it is living to survive which is a lot more meaningful.

what are your thoughts on this? if you can understand what I am saying.

[ March 08, 2004, 23:23: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't understand...

They're the minority but they exist, such as Simcity, Rail Tycoon, Sims, business simulator like Capitalism, various MUSH that focus more on role-playing...

[ March 08, 2004, 23:31: Message edited by: ywl ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

I have an MMORPG addict co-worker who spends hours just forging things and mining for resources and so on in Horizons. Apparently it has major non-combat elements, including building cities, digging massive tunnels or building huge bridges, etc.

But ya, there are many non-combat strategy games and RPG's. The whole Sim series (Earth, Ant, etc). The Wolf and Lion games (Win 3.1 era, IIRC) were interesting. The whole Caesar/Pharoah/Zeus series. The recent space station community sim (forget name). Tropico. The Theme Park games. Spiderweb Software have a neat RPG (Geneforge?) about making crossbreeds.

PvK

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

I'm specifically talking about Online games, though. Maybe not "ONLY-ONLINE" but multiplayer nonetheless.

[ March 09, 2004, 01:09: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Ok, then see Horizons as an example of an MMORPG with heavy options for major non-combat projects. There are others with at least an attempt to do such things, too. Text-based MUSH games are often heavy on non-combat elements.

There are some non-commercial VR games which involve players building worlds.

For commercial non-violent Online strategy games, you may be describing a little-explored niche. Not sure. Maybe you can pitch Barbie World On-Line to Mattel... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I think the commercial Online strategy market is pretty stuck on RTS, and that genre has so many time warps and low-attention-span types of activities already, I'm not sure how it could work well without the violence. "Construction rush! I'm gonna buy up all the undeveloped land so I can start my super mall before my opponents!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Mainly teasing, there. Do you have the germ of an interesting game in mind?

PvK

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Argh! Horizons! They totally messed up the lizardfolk race, they are my favorite race!! Asexual... low intelligence!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Anyway, I'm looking for a game with both a combat system and non-combat system, but I haven't found any game which has accomplished both well.

I dunno about Horizons, it turned me off the second I read the description of the "lizardfolk-type" race. Dom2 has definitely accomplished the best lizardfolk-styled race I've ever seen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


Like Starwars for instance has a great combat system and and a well-made economy system, but the combat is just way more "fullfilling" and fun.

[ March 09, 2004, 01:40: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Horizons has butt-ugly graphics, and its a pay to beta currently, but once 6 months to a year passes and it leaves its beta state, it might be cool.

Of course, by then I'll be playing WoW and COH, and will long since have forgotten Horizons exists, but thats the price you pay for bad graphics and a pay to beta.

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

i'm still currently Subscribed to it. It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't think i'll buy another MMORPG until its been out for a while and (heaven forbid) the positivity on the msg Boards out-weigh the negativity.

after AC2 and Horizons...its time for a break (hopefully i won't break down and buy CoH)

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most MMORPGs have this to different extents, although how far they take the non-combat aspects varies.

There have been games with extensive non-combat elemtns dating all the way back to Ultima Online, though, and before that if you count mostly non-commercial MUDs and stuff.

There is also a recent massively multiplayer game which is totally noncombat - "A Tale In the Desert" or something like that. Heard about it on the Gone Gold forums. It sounded fairly popular.

Also, I would point out that your opinion on combat being more "fulfilling" than non-combat in Galaxies (which is what I assume you mean by "Star Wars", since there have been, oh, about two dozen Star Wars games) does not apply to everyone, or else there wouldn't be many non-combat players, and from what I understand there very much are.

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Capitalism II
Most of the Sim games
something more oen-ended like a MUD?
a game called "tranquility" (which reminds me of the mind-control game brought back from Riza in the Star Trek series)
Celtic Kings
King of Dragons Pass (an excellent example)

Again it helps that if you are looking for strategy gmaes that arent the average run-of-the-mill junk that gets dished out to the masses then you should gvisit the strategy newsGroups and forums. Same if your thing is RPG games, or action games.

[ March 09, 2004, 02:33: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">SimAnt was noncombat? I seem to remember the joy of hopping into a Soldier and leading your team to search-and-destroy the enemy queen, and building chokepoints out of rocks, and other such combative tactics.

Then again, maybe I'm just one of those people who can turn anything into a battle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Well I guess it's come to the conclusion it's either strategy or MMORPG genre.

Remember Gandalf, I is talking about multiplayer/Online games, so Sims games won't cut it. MUDs wont really do the trick either because I cannot stand text-based games. They is not for me and a lot other people are turned off by them

I can tolerate SOME MUDs where the graphics are made up of numbers, letters, and cymbols...

Edit: Oh yes, and this thread is NOT just about me.

[ March 09, 2004, 03:15: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

I was a beta-tester and now have a lifetime membership to There. It is more of an Online community than a game, but there is certainly no combat (except paintball for sport) and people have all kinds of strategies to make money and gain popularity and stuff. I haven't checked in in quite a while, but for a while I thought it was pretty freakin' neat. Happy Place.

http://www.there.com

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You mean there's a multiplayer Version floating around somewhere? Me wants! Me wants!

It's not really non-combat, though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Anyway, not to flame you Argitoth, but the majority of people looking for more or less noncombat multiplayer games are usually those that can put up with pure text-based things, too (I for one wouldn't be able to stand a MUD with ASCII-graphics...) - that's my experience at least, and obviously the one from most gamedevelopers, too.

I heared of this Desert Tale thing, too... sounded horribly interesting, actually - people competed with each other for the gods' favour by fulfilling specific quests once a week, like putting up the most impressive firework, or building fantastic statues, designing gardens to their gods' likening, etc... all from a *ton* of variables. Entirely no-combat, though, as far as I understood. Ah, just found the link: www.ataleinthedesert.com ... if anyone gets to play it, let me know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


Anyway, why not just play Black & White? It's much more fun playing multiplayer than singleplayer, and you can win over enemy villages by having your big monster cuddle the inhabitants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It even has decent graphics, especially for its time - I still think they're good, but then again, I am not much of a graphics addict.

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

As I look for an exceptional non-combat system, if there is no combat at all, it makes the game just as bad as a non-combat game IMO.

[ March 09, 2004, 13:26: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Alpha Centauri would fit the bill - if your playstyle is low focus on combat and military strength.

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

I played A Tale in the Desert a bit around a year ago. It is entirely non-combat except for a few small minigames. You cut grass, chop wood, grow garlic, raise sheep, build pottery stuff, grow flax and turn it into thread and canvas, make firebricks, build mines and greenhouses, crossbreed beetles etc. Since the available level of technology is increasing there are probably lots of other stuff that can be done now that were not available then.

The game is supposed to run on a cycle, when the combined efforts of the players have completed the big goal, the game will start over. The cycle is 1-2 years I think.

I quit because of several reasons:
You dont get to kill stuff and take their loot, which I find fun to do in games. Most of the 'tests' that you can pass in the game are in competition with other players, like 'build a bigger obelisk than anyone nearby ever has'. The tests have only minor game-play benefits but they are the only big visible goals the game gives you. It got boring for me since I did not socialize a lot with other people.

Edit: It kind of reminded me of the old game serf city (settlers I) where you build an economy with the help of hundreds of little serfs. The main difference is that in a tale in the desert you play one of the serfs.

[ March 09, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: mivayan ]

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

Many (but not most) games can be "won" through non-combat means, even multi-player ones. I once won a Civ3 game without ever actually engaging in combat.

Star Wars Galaxies, poor as it is, allows you to play a character with practically nill combat skills. In fact, it encourages it. When I was beta-testing the game I played an artisan character to very high levels who never once fired a gun in anger or otherwise.

In fact, I'd wager that almost every "new genration" MMORPG offers a greater or lesser facility for non-combat progression... even if the stuff you create is generally used in combat by other people.

Re: OT: Will anyone ever create a game...
 

I tried out some Muds a while back...there was one where a few classes could get xp without fighting. It was a lot of fun at first to play a necromancer stalking high-level parties to steal the corpses of their kills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But in the end sitting around for ages waiting for a crafting timer to reach zero is just boring...and I'm not sure how you could do non-combat stuff without something like that.

Of course, combat can be like this too depending on the game. I've heard good things about Final Fantasy XI's combat though.

Not that I've been playing much MMoRPGs lately.

How about this?
http://ukosite.jolt.co.uk/imprunner.html

Peaceful competition to beat other people's highscores http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I had a lot of fun with it anyway...more than some games I've paid for.