OT: Recommendations?
 

Well, I happened upon Dominions II by sheer chance...and now, several weeks later, I've been hooked and playing it every day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So I'm wondering if others on this forum can give me some recommendations of other relatively little-known, independently-produced/published, deep-as-heck, totally addictive games which I could try. Preferably, they'd be in a different genre than Dom II, as that's pretty much all I need on the fantasy-themed strategy/wargame front. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Any suggestions?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

The Ur-Quan Masters. A freeware remake of Star Control 2.

http://sc2.sourceforge.net/

[ March 09, 2004, 18:51: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

King Of Dragon Pass

Don't recall a URL but it is probably the most *unique* style of game I have ever seen and addictive at the same time.

Not MP but an amazingly fun and unique SP game.

- Kel

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Thank you both! I'll be trying these out tonight, as well as several of the other demos for games published by Shrapnel (especially Space Empires IV and Coliseum).

Keep those suggestions coming, folks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 09, 2004, 20:23: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Laser Squad Nemesis... multiplayer only, turn-based squad tactics. By the Xcom designers. I should mention that Xcom is better, but LSN is "independant" whereas Xcom was published by Microprose.

Not independant or PC-based (it's for Playstation) but I certainly recommend Xenogears, over any other game, for any system or genre. Don't confuse it with Xenosaga, which is not good.

And, of course, Stars! ...if you've never played it.

[ March 09, 2004, 20:41: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1) I loved the XCom games (well, the first two, at least), and so I'll definitely give LSN a go.

2) I don't have a Playstation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

3) I haven't played Stars! What's it like, and where would I go to try it out?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Stars! is a space conquest game. Turns are host based like Dominions 2 and although the two games are totally different they do somehow feel akin. Although Stars! is easier to get into but very difficult to master IMHO:)

Its pretty old hat now and no longer actively developed any further. The Devs started work on a sequel but somewhere along the way just as we were getting teasers they lost the plot and the project appears to have been shelved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif My interest in Stars! pretty much closed at that point.

Best reference for it is the multitude of web sites albeit dying that exist on the web (use Google) or in the NewsGroups

http://Groups.google.co.uk/Groups?hl...computer.stars

If memory serves me right the AI really wasn't to hot so it was much more a pbem game.

Still quite a loyal following, though nothing like a couple of years back.

Tals

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Nethack

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One of my all-time faves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Well I would recomend the games in my sig. All (except Dominions II) are made by Paradox Entertainment. Another Swedish software company.

Europa Universalis 2. Play any country from 1419-1819. Rather deep diplomacy and lots of wars.

Hearts of Iron. WWII grand strategy game. More focus on war and technology, but engine is recognicable from EU2.

Victoria - An Empire under the sun. Play any country from 1836-1920. Unite Germany or Italy. Fight the Crimean war etc. Engine is developed from the former two games.

Of the three my favourite is EU2. Both the others are good as well.

Edit: Be prepared for rather steep learning curves and dont trust the manual, but seek answers from the Online FAQ or the forums. People behave much like on this forum (Thats supposed to be a positive endorsement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Edit2: Oh and by the way, the Pause/break button is your friend

[ March 09, 2004, 23:48: Message edited by: Bossemanden ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Definitely. It's a weird cross between a role-playing game and a strategy game, without the usual micromanagement. In fact, being able to only initiate two major actions a turn prevents being bogged down in micromanagement...

Production company is A-Sharp, URL is http://www.a-sharp.com/kodp.

And remember to think like an Orlanthi, instead of min-maxing or adhering too much to modern sensibilities.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Thanks again to everybody who posted! You folks are fantastic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I've actually read a bit about Europa Universalis 2 (I like a lot of the things Strategy First publishes, especially Kohan and Disciples II - while neither game is especially deep, they are intensely entertaining http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) and I've been itching to try it. Now I'll have to break down and do it.

Steep learning curves are not a deterrent to me. I actually love them, because I feel a sense of accomplishment when I finally learn to do something useful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 02:02: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Stars!: http://www.crisium.com/stars/index.html

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem. I bought one just so I could play Xenogears, and consider it a good bargain. PS's are cheaper now, too...

For reference, I didn't like Europa Universalis II (I was so disappointed after all the build-up). In the RTS genre, I consider Kohan (which you've played) much better. And Total Annihilation is still, IMO, the best RTS ever (especially multiplayer). If you enjoyed Kohan you should give it a spin... or Warlords Battlecry II, which is a more traditional RTS than TA or Kohan.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">EU2 should be available in the bargain bin, so try not to pay full price for it. Also be sure to check out the official EU2 forum *before* you play the game. Fair warning (and at the risk of incurring the wrath of the Paradox fanbois here) but EU2 is still, after seven patches, buggier than Dom 2 (some of the bugs are quite serious), and has a weaker AI than Dom. The game is very educational, if you're into history (I recommend buying a copy of EU1, for ~$6 in bargain bins, just for the excellent manual it has), but EU2 has a very weak and seriously-flawed AI if you're expecting any sort of challenge from the game.

A better Paradox game would be HOI with the latest CORE mod. HOI still has some fundamental AI flaws that are ingrained in the engine that no amount of modding has been able to fix, but HOI plays more "intelligently" than EU2 by far. The EU2 AI makes a lot of bad decisions (some truly stupendously stupid), and it's simply too easy to win against it.

Okay, Bosse, have at me ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 02:12: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I love Kohan. Love it, love it, love it. One of my favorite RTSes - I enjoy it more than I did Total Annihilation. (Heresy, I know.) I can't wait for Kings of War.

I have and frequently play Warlords BC II. It's great! Unfortunately Warlords IV was a real letdown, coming off the greatness of Warlords III and then going years ahead to...IV. Hardly the update many thought it would be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

As far as realtime goes, in addition to Kohan, WBC II, Homeworld, and Age of Mythology, I'm somewhat a fan of the (now slightly long in the tooth) Majesty. I also really liked (and still play, on occasion) Sacrifice.

[ March 10, 2004, 02:51: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I try *never* to pay full price unless there are no other options. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I am a Bargain Bin Hunter of the Third Degree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thanks for your comments on the AI...I sure wish there was a demo available, so that I could see for myself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heretic! Witch! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . I think that you are partially right in your criticism, but only partially. IMO the buggyness of EU2 is comparable to Dom2, though the Paradox crew has had a lot longer to fix it.

Comparing the AI for Dom2 and EU2 strikes me as unfair. Dom2 deals with disrcrete situations, that can be allowed to take unlimited calculation time. EU2 deals with fluid "real time" situations, in which limited calculation resources are available.
In HOI as in EU2 or Vicky the best results are often achieved by exploiting the fluidness of the situation (That is attacking where the enemy is weak). Often my feeling is that Im dealing with a somewhat slow human, that sometimes doesnt understand the "rules" too well.
In Dom2 you can with a high degree of probability determine beforehand where the AI will attack.
It is my belief that the Dom2 AI is much weaker than possibly the EU2 one and certainly the HOI and Vicky AI´s. What makes the Dom2 AI adequate is the simpler overall picture (turnbased vs. real time mainly) and the unlimited computing time.
On the other hand I will agree that the EU2 AI habit of stacking troops up in heaps and heaps when sieging forts is a big weakness.

In the end I see the strengths as more important and the weaknesses as less important than you do. The weaknesses are there to be sure, but there is a difference in viewpoint.

So no Im not gonna chew you out, but my conclusions differ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Strategy First is much more interested in milking the EU engine for all the mileage they can get out of it than in having Paradox put out quality products, and/or address the fundamental bugs the engine has had for many years now. (On Sunday I was in a local Ebgames store and saw yet another, new, EU-engine game by Paradox, dealing with just France and England.) Strategy First/Paradox is to strategy gaming as Hasbro/WotC/TSR is to pen & paper gaming. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We've debated this before and the time-slice argument simply does not hold water. If you slow down the time passage rate of EU/EU2/HOI to the slowest setting, which gives the AI plenty of time to think, it doesn't play any better than it does at normal or faster "turn" speeds. And EU2/HOI has no more provinces to deal with than Dom2 does when using very large maps. Couple with the fact that Dom2 has more complex unit interactions than EU2 does. Only HOI can approach the complexity of Dom2 unit interactions. And the HOI AI, while having more "work" to do each "turn", doesn't play "worse" than EU2, which is a simpler model. So explanations such as time available or model complexity simply do not wash for EU2. The EU-engine games simply suffer from an AI with weak internal algorithms, and no amount of excuses can alter that fact. The Dom2 engine isn't better because it has a "simpler" model. It's better because it's been coded to be better. It manages resources better, it evaluates the strategic situation better, and conducts combat better than Paradox's AI does in comparable circumstances (and yes, you can rig up comparable situations, despite EU-engined games being continuous-time).

Even more annoying in EU is not the brain-dead overstacking but the "mouse that roared" syndrome when some piddly little country will suddenly, for no discernable reason, declare war on a "superpower". I see this in Victoria too.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You seem to be deliberately missing the point.

As you probably well know, very few game AIs are written to scale their computing to the actual processor time on the target machine. Apart from the considerable efforts involved, it would lead to the AI playing differently on different computers. This is not desirable from a support point of view.

Rather, they are written such that certain algorithms are processed in a time frame that will likely not cause slow-down on the target machine at the default speed level. It is exactly the same AI algorithms that are executed whether you run slower or faster, but if your computer is below recommended specifications [or if there are particularly many units active, each having to be handled], going slower will make for a more fluid game, and likewise going faster will likely result in a more choppy game performance.

An alternative adaptive routine that adjusts to processing power is seldom used elsewhere than pathfinding (where extra nodes may not be necessary, but may present smoother movement, thus not affecting the overall game logic) or the graphics presentation.

When writing something to run in perceived real time, processing power is ALWAYS at a premium. It is simply not an option to rewrite your core algorithms to take longer time, if you are already pushing the envelope on your target machine. Otherwise you will make the game run choppy for the target customer, and that is not a smart thing to do. Writing some smarter code, yes, that can perhaps be done, but only if you do not significantly increase the number of CPU cycles it takes to compute.

And what makes this different from turn based games, then? Only one thing: the processor time that can actually be allocated to making decisions is typically larger in turn based games and, even better, TBS's typically do not have to devote a large amount of resources to graphics while doing their AI computations.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree. About KoDP and the advice how to play it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not correct. Two thrones is not a EU engine derivative. On the other hand, the coming Crusader kings that deals only with Europe 1066-1419 is.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not correct. IIRC both EU2 and HOI has more than a 1000 provinces, with Victoria having significantly more. AFAIK Dom2 has a limit of 500.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Peter has refuted this nicely. Suffice to say that I disagree with you.
Edit: (Apparently I´ll say more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) The continous time vs. turnbased introduces a higher level of complexity as well. This means that algorithms must attempt to do more with less resources, not just the same amount of work with less resources.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Correct and this is a weakness. On the other hand you might find this very same thing in Dominions as well.

[ March 10, 2004, 09:22: Message edited by: Bossemanden ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I know it's not independent. Sorry, but always when I am supposed to suggest any sort of games, Torment always creeps up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I love the way you create your character ingame actually.

Check out Avernum, if you can bear past-age graphics but value gameplay and storytelling, it's excellent. I can't wait for Blades of Avernum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ah, yes, and I love Kohan as well... what a great little gem due to it's gameplay. Finally a RTS that rewards moderately slow skill over quick button pushing.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Peter has refuted this nicely. Suffice to say that I disagree with you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, both you and Peter ignored this particular point. I've reduced the discussion to apples-vs.-apples, comparing two games using the same engine, to illustrate my point and help you to focus on the real issue. To reiterate, EU2 has a simpler "model" than HOI (therefore less work to do in each timeslice) and yet the EU2 AI plays as a much "dumber" opponent than the HOI AI. If your argument about limitations of a continuous-time engine were valid as an excuse for the poor AI behavior, then EU2 should play a stronger game than HOI as it has more time to "think" about each choice it makes per cycle than HOI's AI does. This comparison showcases the inherent weakness of the AI algorithms itself, and not limitations imposed by the turn mechanism.

The root problem with the EU-engined games isn't *caused* by their continuous-time nature. It's more fundamental. The problem would still exist if the games were turn-based. Continuous-time just exacerbates an already weak AI.

Finally, as you have admitted, continuous-time could never justify brain-dead behavior such as massive overstacking or stupid war declarations (just to name the two most obvious flaws these games *still* have after *years* of patches). That's just bad logic. Which, as I contend, extends all the way to the core of the games.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

If you have NWN, you should try Shadowlords(1-5), and it's sequel Dreamcatcher(1-4) by Adam Miller. If you don't have NWN, you should get it just to be able to play these. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 14:05: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They *were*. Now Black Isle simply no longer exists. Interplay laid off the entire staff ...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Mmh. Most games i like to play have already been mentioned.

If graphics aren't your main concern, I would check out the underdog site www.the-underdogs.org.
They have tons really good classics. If you like rpg's try Wasteland, which has still a very loyal following even though it's from 1987.


On a side note: I really enjoy EU II and Victoria, the community is pretty good , too. My recomendation: get'em play'em. The money is not wasted.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They *were*. Now Black Isle simply no longer exists. Interplay laid off the entire staff ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. I followed that sordid mess as well. Actually "Black Isle" - as a brand - still exists...it's simply no longer populated with the people who made those great CRPGs. Interplay has said that they will continue to release games under the "Black Isle" label, when they feel it's "worthy" of the distinction.

But then again, they felt Lionheart was worthy of the name...and that was the most God-awful rushed-together mess of an RPG that I've played in many a year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I played Wasteland so much on my old 8088 that I broke the arrow keys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I guess what I'm looking for (and I suppose I should have been clearer, since I've gotten a lot of these types of responses) is not so much old classics (as I've been a computer/board/pen-and-paper gamer for a long time) but more the "relatively recently-released, unknown/unsung, unjustly ignored" types of games. I do thank you for the suggestion, though. A few years back I purchased Interplay's giant RPG collection just so I could play Wasteland again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On another note, I tried the King of Dragon Pass tour, the Ur-Quan Masters game, and the Star Empires IV demo Last night. I LOVED KoDP (was already a Hero Wars fan, but knew nothing about KoDP) and will probably end up plunking down for it. I enjoyed Ur-Quan (great music in the remixes, too). And SEIV was just fantastic.

The jury's still out on EU2/Victoria, it seems. There's obviously a great deal of different opinion surrounding Paradox's games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Why in the world won't they release demos, so that prospective buyers like me might have an opportunity to check them out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 15:05: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's insane that they lay off the talent that made Black Isle/Interplay famous and then try to sell the Fallout license. What good is a license without the people? Who yanks the engine out of a car (leaving the car without one) before they sell the car? Idiots!

I bought Lionheart solely on the Black Isle name. My mistake.

The only top-tier developer that's still putting out consistently good games is Bioware. Everyone else is catering to the console crowd.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Amen. (edit: deleted rant)

[ March 10, 2004, 15:11: Message edited by: Tricon ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

I agree completely, Arryn.

They've already soiled the good name of Fallout with the "Brotherhood of Steel" console hackfest. Personally, my feeling is that Interplay is no longer a company to be trusted.

OK, all this (previous) conversation about EU2/HoI/Victoria has got me itching to try them. Maybe I'll have to bargain-bin hunt for EU2 this weekend and simply take a chance.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Despite my feelings about the lameness of the EU engine AI, I do recommend you get EU2 and HOI. I also recommend that you spend an extra 6 bucks and buy EU1 just for the EU1 manual which has some very interesting historical info in it.

With regards to HOI, my advice is to be sure you play it with the CORE mod. The basic game's AI files, OOBs, and other factors leave much to be desired. The CORE team has put in an enormous amount of effort into making the game more historically accurate, balanced, and tweaking the AI (as much as can be done) to provide some sort of challenge.

IMO, Victoria is still too buggy to be worth buying. It needs at least 1-2 more patches. A good friend of mine plays Vicky every night, has been doing so for months now, and he never has anything good to say about the game. I own the game myself and he keeps reminding me why I shouldn't play it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif He keeps playing it because he has nothing else to distract him. I've been trying to get him interested in Dom (since my BF won't play me) but he prefers games that have an economy-management aspect to them (like EU/HOI, and Civ, etc.).

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not as interested in HoI as I am in the other two, as I tend to shy away from "modern warfare" games unless they're science-fiction. World War II is an interesting period in history, but not one which I personally find very entertaining in games. The one exception to this would be Pod9's oustanding Gear Krieg miniatures wargame/pen-and-paper RPG, as it's much more of a "what-if" scenario with steampowered mecha, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Duly noted; thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What happened to Warlords IV? At one time, the game looked so incredible, then all of a sudden, it totally changed....combat was looking like a fantasy type of Total War (just the screenshots...), then one day, it just all...changed....

I bought Gangland Last nite....really like that game....I also got my hands on Warlords 4, BUT, i only bought it cause it also came with Warlords Battlecry II.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I did not address this point, as it was not the main focus of your argument. The focus of your argument was EU2 vs. DOMII, or RTS vs TB, and in that situation time is the real issue.

HOI (or Victoria, for that matter) vs EU2 clearly shows that given enough development time, a better AI on the same game engine can be made [what a surprise], though it has to obey the same timing restrictions as the old AI, for which we are happy as players, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the RTS-TB comparison and fundamental timing issues.

I fear we are talking past each other, here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Basically, if you stop comparing turn-based and real-time-based strategy game AIs in a "which is better" fashion, I will stop bringing up timing issues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 16:15: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know, but it made me sad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The tactical one-on-one combat system is interesting, but marred in my opinion by the absolutely hideous, cartoony graphics. The map portion of the game and the other artwork looks OK, though...

And it must be said that I am not really a graphics buff, or at least not one who values graphics over gameplay. But...wow. Warlords IV threw out many of the things which made WIII great, and introduced other things which - in my opinion - didn't add a lot of value to the mix. I was really looking forward to it, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

I am also new to Dom 2 and loving it! The (other) TBS I really love right now is Stardock's Galactic Civilizations. They have been making updates and adding enhancements to the game since it was released. They even have an expansion coming out in the next couple of months. It is purely SP, but the AI is very well done and can offer a challenge. Since they haven't been mentioned, I'd also point you to the first 2 Master of Orion games.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks! I used to play MOO2 quite a bit.

Galactic Civilizations sounds interesting...I'll have to search around a bit. Is it shareware or retail?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">GalCiv is retail. It's an interesting game, but it's replayability is, IMO, limited, compared to MOO3 or SE4. After a few games, all your games seem to play out pretty much the same. A large part of this problem is the fact that you can only play as humans, unlike MOO3 or SE4 with their great ability to create custom races.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Hello!
I'm no wargamer, nor experienced gamer at all, and have no clue about publishing houses and all, but I really really liked
Planescape Torment
Fallout (1&2)
Arcana
-- I think these were all by Bioware or Bioware related people.
I did not care for NWN at all, finding it totally superficial, and Morrowind bugged me for the same reasons.
I know none of these are the same genre as DomII, but I think you asked for that in your original post.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah yes. I fondly remember Torment and the Fallouts as the best CRPG´s I´ve ever played (Possible contenders are Baldurs gate I and II). Havent heard of Arcana. Do you mean Arcanum, by Troika?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Planescape Torment - Black Isle Studios (Interplay)
Fallout - Black Isle Studios (Interplay)
Arcanum - Troika Games (Sierra)
NWN - Bioware (Atari)

Bioware is famous for Baldur's Gate (etc.), which they developed in conjunction with Black Isle (yes, two major design studios on one project). Bioware's most recent product is Knights of the Old Republic, distributed by LucasArts.

Troika's most recent effort is the POS game Temple of Elemental Evil. OTOH, they are working on Vampire: Bloodlines, which may give me cause to forgive them for prostituting themselves with Temple.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, Dom II is pretty much the only turn-based fantasy game I'm playing these days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Every once in a while I fire up Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic to look at the pretty graphics...and then I shut it down again and play Dom. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thanks for all your suggestions, by the way - I've played every game on that list and loved them all (except for Torment and Arcanum, which I just "liked", my enthusiasm having been tempered somewhat by combat-related issues). Great minds think alike, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So far I've come out of this discussion with some great finds - chief among them being King of Dragon Pass, Space Empires IV, Laser Squad Nemesis (what a kick that little game is!), and Europa Universalis II. I'll be buying all four of those, for sure.

If anyone has further suggestions of current "indie" games which are labors of love rather than labors of cash, I'd still love to hear them. But these, plus Dom, should keep me going for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

EDIT: By the way, I don't know how many of you were fans of the old Eon boardgame Cosmic Encounter (I used to play it like crazy, until my set got water damage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ), but I found out recently that the Eon folks have gotten back together to make a fully Online Version of their classic game, with new stuff being added all the time. It's at Cosmic Encounter Online if you want to check it out. Just trying to return the favor in some small way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scary ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scary ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Now, now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 10, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you liked X-COM/TFTD/X-COM:Apoc you might want to check out UFO:Aftermath. The primary fan site can link you to demos and the publisher's site. GoGamer.com carries the game, BTW, as does EBgames in their stores.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I only tease people I like. I think you've seen what I do to those I don't ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm I bougth UFO:Aftermath and it was a nice enough game, but somehow the athmosphere of the XCOM games wasnt there. Played it through once and havent touched it after.
Not really sure why I wasnt impressed. It should be a much better game than the earlier XCOM´s, but it isnt. Apoc is still my favourite XCOM game.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know, but it made me sad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The tactical one-on-one combat system is interesting, but marred in my opinion by the absolutely hideous, cartoony graphics. The map portion of the game and the other artwork looks OK, though...

And it must be said that I am not really a graphics buff, or at least not one who values graphics over gameplay. But...wow. Warlords IV threw out many of the things which made WIII great, and introduced other things which - in my opinion - didn't add a lot of value to the mix. I was really looking forward to it, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To be honest, it seems as though they try to start their next game half way through the one they are currently working on. It happened to Warlords Battlecry 2. They started on Warlords 4, and just seemed to drop support for WB2. Then, Warlords 4, before it is even really out, they seem to drop support for that, and start promoting (and focusing) on Warlords Battlecry 3.

Doesn't make much sense...but i know that it sucks. I loved Warlords Battlecry 2, but then they just seemed to STOP doing anything more with/for it. Before WB3 is done, they may start Warlords 5, then just dump WB3....

Not sure I am understanding any of it. I played Warlords IV, and I was NOT impressed. Especially in light of Dominions 2. Dom2 is THE best fantasy tbs strat game i have played. And the junk that Warlords 4 turned out to be....

Right now, I am playing a number of games....Planetside, I have Rise of Nations on my pc (waiting for the x-pack), Warlords Battlecry 2 (thinking about taking that one off though), Medieval Total War & Shogun Total War (haven't played them yet though), and thinking about putting Civ3 (w/ x-packs) back on.

Of course, Dominions 2 is on, and Space Empires 4 Gold is on there too, but I haven't played those either. Mostly just Planetside, and now Gangland.

I would recommend Gangland to just about anyone. It is pretty good, I think.

Chris