Re: Nation names ??
 

I'm not really sure of the "Man", but I think it has something to do with a hebrean word "adam"... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Really, that should be quite easy to quess.

Scandinavians will propably know this, but for others this might be new:
Jotunheim and Vanheim are simply Jotun Home and Van Home. In fact Jotunheim is near some sort of Glacier in Sweden (or then not, my memory has done me ugly things before).

Pythium comees from Pythia, which was some kind of a god/dess, IIRC. Also I think it means snake.

Marignon is pseudo-french, or atleast I think it is.

Ulm exists, it is a place in Germany. The intelligence of Ulmians, or lack of it, is joking matter in Germany, or so I have heard... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Machaka seems to be the sound produced when you whack people with long sticks with a blade in the end.

Mictlan is pseudo-aztek, I think.

Caelum and Abysia come from Latin, from the words meaning Heaven and Hell. Or maybe High and Low, or some such, but you get the idea...

Pangaea is the great continent that existed when earth was young, and has then broken to Europe, N&S America etc.

Most know Atlantis, the mystical continent that supposedly went down to the bottom of the Atlantic. (better wording, please)

T'ien C'hi propably means something. At least Google finds 3000+ pages...

And R'lyeh comes from Cthulhu mythos created by H.P. Lovecraft, man who didn't believe to thepower of names...

I have no idea about C'tis, Arcoschepale or Ermor.
Okay, or from Machaka. But that wasn't bad quess,was it?

EDITed 3 times: only for typos! I should learn to preview my Posts first!

[ March 11, 2004, 13:21: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... I'm french, and I can't find out what it could mean.
The battle of Marignan is well known in France (battle between Francois I's troops and the Swiss mercenaries in Italy in 1515), but the Marignon nation could be compared to 15th century Spain (with it's nquisitors) and 12th century France (sacred knights ~ crusaders).

[ March 11, 2004, 13:34: Message edited by: chtronk ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

Perhaps it's a play-on-words for Merovingian? Not sure.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Tien Chi is a Chinese word meaning literally "Heaven and Earth", or figuratively meaning the whole Universe.

I'm guessing the IW devs added the guttoral stop(') to make the words look (and sound?) more "different", but in actual romanized Chinese it's simply written "Tien Chi", with some added lines to specify the intonation.

The pronounciation for "Tien" is something like "Tea + Ann", spoken continuously (somewhat like how "Sigh + Ann" becomes "Cyan"). "Chi" is pronounced as "Chee" (as you pronounce "cheek").

[ March 11, 2004, 14:46: Message edited by: Maximillian ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

Caelum - the latin word for sky or heaven.

Machaka - either a Bantu weapon, probably some sort of sword or battle axe, or men wielding such a weapon.
Chaka/Shaka was also a warlord and the founder of the Zulu state.

Mictlan - the Aztec underworld, ruled by the Lord of Mictlan (Mictlipochtli?)

Pythium - the pythia was the Oracle of Apollon

[ March 11, 2004, 15:24: Message edited by: MCArt ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And the word itself means "spanning/encompassing the globe/world" ie: global. BTW, Pangaea existed in the Mesozoic era, circa 300 to 200 million years ago, when the world was already far past being "young". The Earth itself is FAR older, at ~4.6 billion years.

For more info, check out the following two links: "snapshots" and breakup animation

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Depends... There is more than one way to romanize Chinese characters. Tien Chi is definitely not Pin Yin, the official method for the mainland China.

I'm Chinese and I have absolutely no idea what Tien Chi means http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Tien does sound likes sky or heaven but the right PinYin for that should be Tian. Chi sound like many things but earth... The closest thing I can think of that sounds like Tien Chi is something like the Lake (or Pond) of Heaven. Or the Dynasty of Heaven - if you pronounce Chi in a funny way...

I guess we'll need the developer of Dominions to tell us where they get the words from.

The names in the game are mostly historical figure in Pin Yin. I have the suspicion that they lifted the names directly from the game "Romance of the Three Kingdom". Non-Chinese might not feel it but it actually feels weird for me to have a general called Lui-Bei under you - imaging having one of your knights called King Arthur...

The three immortals are three of the eight mythical figures in legends, or more exactly fairy tales. The pronounciation there is not Pin Yin though.

So, you see how confused I am when I'm looking at all these different names.

[ March 11, 2004, 21:21: Message edited by: ywl ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

Jotunheim - Realm (heim can mean kingdom, home and world aswell tough) of the Giants. The place were evil dwelled. The great and terrible wolf Fenrir was enfettered there until the coming of Ragnarok. In Jotunheim there was a mighty fortress called Utgard.

Vanheim - Realm of the Vanir. The Vanir was a kind of rivaling family of gods mentioned here and there in the old Aesir mythology. Frey, Freya and Njord were three vanir gods that joined the Aesir pantheon, through a dubious trade.

Midgard - Middle Earth, but after some recent movies everyone knows that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Nifelheim - The mistshrouded realm. The land of darkness and unbearable cold. Within it lies Helheim (or simply Hel, so named after the godess who rules it), the realm of the dead.

Muspelheim - The worldpyre. The opposite of Neifelheim. Not featured in the game but a possibility for a mod perhaps. Would love to see Surt and other giants of fire.

Re: Nation names ??
 

And Ermor? Simply Rome backwards, with an extra "r" to make it sound better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lack of...? Including Einstein? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Nation names ??
 

Do anyone know where the nation names come from in Dominions 2 ??
I know the R'lyeh is Cthulu's city name.
I have information about Jotunheim, Vanheim and Atlantis.
But the others ?

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oops that was a mistake on my part. My Pin Yin must be getting really rusty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I agree with you that a general named "Lui Bei" serving under me sure feels funny. Since Dominions mostly takes other nations from Celtic/Norse/Aztec/etc myths, I think it would have been better if IW used actual figures from Chinese mythology with correct Pin Yin names instead of "vaguely Chinese" ones.

Hmm... you know, we could always make a mod to do exactly that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AFAIR, many names in Dominions I came in response to this request:
http://www.google.ca/Groups?hl=en&lr...ewsc.telia.net

I guess Dom II inherited those names, but Tien Chi was added in Dom2, so if you have good Chinese and Pin Yin, Illwinter may welcome added/corrected list of names for Tien Chi.

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, there is a spell 'Warriors of Muuspelheim', gives fire resistance to your army IIRC. Still, it does sound like a good idea for a mod.

Re: Nation names ??
 

let me expand on Ulm (founded in 854) a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ulm is the place of the tallest church in the world, the Ulmer Münster, 161.53m tall, built in 1377-1890.
the stair to the top of the tower has 753 steps, and the Münster offers room for 20000 people.

here a few pictures:
http://www.ulmer-muenster.de/portal/indmueg.jpg
and from across the Danube:
http://www.ulmer-muenster.de/portal/muentot2.gif

of course, Ulm is also the home of A. Einstein, and this year is "Einstein year", celebrating his 125th birthday.

if you don't know Einstein:
http://www.8ung.at/liquid1/clipart/bw/einstein.jpg


by the way, Ulmians, and the whole region (Schwaben) are usually accused of being stingy. there's a German joke "Schotten sind des Landes wegen Verschwendungssucht verwiesene Schwaben" but don't ask me to translate it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

I'm still waiting for an explanation of Arcoscephale. That seems to be a tough one.

Re: Nation names ??
 

bow-headed.

no, seriously.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

Disclaimer: Of course I know that all nations in Dominions 2 are fiction/fantasy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Man: Norman maybe. The description (conquered a kingdom/strict (feudalism) fits pretty well and the knight unit has a norman shield and IIRC even chain mail armor like the knights on the Bayeux tapestry.

Ermor: Rome. The names and descritptions of the legionary units in Broken Empire and their position on the battlefield are correct. But Soul Gate got it wrong: Tribunes, Senators and Consuln weren't religious leaders.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Arkos and Cephale both stem from Greek. The latter refers to the head or mind, the former to leader or chief. At least that's what some Googling suggests.

Edit: As for Man, well, there's actually an Isle of Man, which IIRC has some Celtic heritage and related legends.

[ March 12, 2004, 18:31: Message edited by: Taqwus ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

"Arcos" means arc, or arch is essence, (ie. like a bow (same general idea)). Of course, "arch" can mean leader (as in "arch-druid"), but I wasn't joking about "bow-headed"

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

well, OK, "bow" is usually something like "toxou" in greek (mounted archers were the toxotes), but the point still holds...

really, though, linking the "arcos" to the "arch of the sky" or some such is probably a good bet; thus mixing it up semantically w/ Apollo/Apollonian...

Re: Nation names ??
 

Arch as in the "arch of the heavens", perhaps? Arcocephale = mind of the heavens?

As for Man, well, the Isle of Man is considered one of the Celtic nations. I guess that's the best guess I have as to why the Celtic race is named Man.

[ March 12, 2004, 23:33: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Nation names ??
 

Here's a quote from parole.aporee.org:
The term Arcology comes from Paolo Soleri's book Arcology: The City in the Image of Man. In this book, Soleri posits a theory of social evolution and discusses the impact of this theory on future human civilization. The term is a portmanteau word formed from the terms \"Architecture" and "Ecology".

I guess Arcoscephale means 'Mindlords' if you want a non-literal translation in keeping with the theme...

Re: Nation names ??
 

Another interesting note about Pythia is that the Pythian Oracles of Apollo are thought to have kept sacred snakes under the temple. Also, in one of the myths about Apollo, the god had to kill a gigantic serpent or dragon who guarded the oracle at Delphi before it became a sacred place.
I do find it a little strange that they have legionares and the like, though. I would have thought that an armyset like Arcoscephale's would have been more appropriate, given that Pythia is much more related to Greek than Roman mythology.

Re: Nation names ??
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, there is a spell 'Warriors of Muuspelheim', gives fire resistance to your army IIRC. Still, it does sound like a good idea for a mod. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When/if we get the ability to mod themes, that's one that I'm planning to make. Would definately make Jotunheim a lot less predictable in MP.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Just wanted to point out that peten is a type of snake in hebrew, a "Cobra" or a "Mamba" when translated into english (atleast according to the dictionary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

Actually, it's an adder. I believe the correct phonetic spelling is "pethen", but a soft "t" and the "th" dipthong are almost completely indistinguishable in Hebrew, except in special cases.
Then again, the exact pronunciation of the more ancient forms of Hebrew has always been a point of contention for linguists.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Hmmm...
Coming from a man who lives (and was born in) Israel I can tell you its pronounced at Peten.
HOWEVER!
In ancient Hebrew (more like Aramit, however you write that in english) it was probably pronounces Pethen.
You see, in those ancient times the letter "Taf" (as it is called today) could be pronounced either as T or as TH, depending on special punctuation, that punctuation still exists in "Modern" Hebrew, but it is disregarded and unpronounced, so it IS a Peten.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Hmm, closest phonetically is 天气 but I really doubt they wanted the word for weather.

天地 would be meaningful but sounds nowhere close. 天子 meaning "Son of Heaven" might be a good bet.

Worst for me was having an eunuch named "Kwan Yin".

Good catch, I didn't know that.

Sorry about the formatting. UBB doesn't like Chinese.

Re: Nation names ??
 

Yes it's a small semi-independent island in the Irish Sea

http://www.isleofman.com/factfile/ for more details than you probably want to know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ,

Re: Nation names ??
 

If I may inject my opinion here.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Man to me represents a mixture of the cultures of the British isles.

As has been said, there is the Isle of Man. But also, we can't forget the contribution of the longbow to the Hundred Years War, and how deadly that weapon made the English armies in that time period. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

and of course King Arthur himself is supposedly interred on the isle of Avalon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I believe Lord Warden was also a title in England. (or maybe still is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) A lot of similarities.

Pythium in my opinion is representative of the Eastern Roman Empire(BYZANTIUM). Both tried to (rather unsuccessfully) pick up the pieces of the greater fallen empire. Although Pythiums armies are a bit more traditional roman than the greek armies of the east, I think it is overall a good fit. On top of that, its nice to see the purple standard. Very Byzantine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Maybe their priests could have been eunachs though. That'd be kinda neat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Other than that the way I interpreted the nations to be are:

Abysia - not sure. HELL?

Atlantis - I guess Atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Pythium - Byzantium with a pre-christian Rome element

Man - British

Ulm - medieval germans

C'tis - no idea

Arcosscephale - reminds me of ancient greece http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Caelium - not sure. HEAVEN?

Ermor - Roman empire.. though maybe later Rome when it began using a lot of foreign mercenaries when manpower ran short. Replace undead with barbarians and it works out pretty well.

Marignon - reminds me a lot of inquisition era spain. It could nominally represent the papacy too, though I dont think they wield that sort of religious authority, it helps me fit them better into the disintegration of Ermor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Pangaea - Not really sure. It is sorta mythological in a greek way. Not really a greek theme to it, but the creatures I remember from reading old greek myths, but they could be borrowed from wider mythology.

Vanheim - To be honest, with their ships and some of their units, they somewhat remind of me of the vikings. But I havent played with them enough to really make any firm judgement.

Jotunheim - I guess another scandanavian realm. But more related maybe to a mythological era. Someone before gave a good analysis of it, I'm not really too sharp on Scandanavian lore.

R'lyeh - Not sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Mictlan - Aztec empire , or at least mesoamerican.

T'ien Ch'i - some chinese or oriental empire. Kinda Ming dynastyish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Machaka - Not really sure what these lads are, but since we don't have anyone yet from Africa I'll make it a african tribal state. That's my guess since thats what pops into my head when I hear "Witch doctor"

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

Marignon is tricky.

My heart says it is a spanish society, but maybe it could also be a mixture of Merovingian/Carolingian Europe with Spanish inquisition influences.

Re: Nation names ??
 

C'tis is based on ancient egypt. Especially the desert tomb theme points in that direction.

Re: Nation names ??
 

H.P.Lovecrafts Cthulhu comes to mind.

Re: Nation names ??
 

You guys sure know your Dominions 2. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I may give C'Tis a try now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Nation names ??
 

Apparently a good guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There was a battle at Marignan in 1515 between France and "The Holy League to Liberate Italy", which included England, Germany, and Spain. (Anchor Atlas of World History, vol 1, p 219)

Re: Nation names ??
 

Except that both other C'tissian themes have nothing at all to do with ancient Egypt.














Also, Egyptians weren't lizards.

Re: Nation names ??
 

ROFL, sorry, I just couldn't let that go ROFL

Re: Nation names ??
 

I've looked into C'tis a bit, and other than one of their priest units having a greek origin, I can't trace them to any historical civilization.

They could represent some mythological race like Jotunheim, or they're possibly a mix of cultures.

Or its possible not every realm presented has a real world parallel.

Although it'd be odd for all but one to seemingly have one. But R'yleh is based on a book I guess, so maybe something similiar could be for C'Tis. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif