Malazan Mod concept
 

I have an interesting idea for a mod, but I was hoping to get some advice from some of the experienced modders out there about how to proceed with it.

I'd like to do a Malazan Book of the Fallen mod for Dom 2, starting with a Malazan Empire mod, likely as a replacement for Marignon.

If you're not familiar with Steven Erikson's novels, I strongly recommend that you go and buy them, all of them, and don't come out of your room until you finish them, because they are some of the best fantasy I've ever read, and I've been at the stuff my whole life.

But I digress. I am interested in trying my hand at modding, but I was wondering how much programming skill is required, since mine is limited. I have done some board-game design, but this is several levels of complexity beyond that, so I was hoping to receive some pointers from some of the people who are obviously old hands at it.

Basically, other than concept, where to start? Is there a few good threads that are required reading? Some excellent tools that I could find? Any programming skills I should brush up on? And of course, would people like to get a chance to gear up as Malazan sappers and take on the gods?

Any help or guidance that people could give me would be very much appreciated, and I know that I'm probably giving up what limited spare time I have, and that the dog will be whining hungrily soon, and the girlfriend will curse the game, but I'd really like to give this a try.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

I started reading the Malazan books a while ago, and found them rather hard to get into - I couldn't understand what was going on, who was who, or whatever.

Now, about two thirds into the first book, I'm really enjoying it - but it took some time. Definitely not something I could have locked myself in my room for, not to get out until I was done reading them.

As for modding... I haven't tried it, but there definitely is no programming skill required. The unit stats are all changed through text files that specify the new units' stats; if you want to include specific graphics, you'll need a little skill there, as well, but mostly, it's a question of finding the right balance, and working with what abilities are in the game.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

Inaccessibility is one of the most understandable critisicms of the series, I agree with you on that. I suppose that since I've read the whole set 3 or 4 times now, I read each in light of the whole, and I still come to new realizations each time I read, which I think is why I like them so much.

There are not many fantasy novels out there right now that can provide you with something totally new each time you read it, which is what Erikson does for me. I think you'll find that you get more out of the series with each book you read, and Deadhouse Gates I think is one of the best fantasy novels ever written, less of a plod than Gardens of the Moon for sure.

As to modding, it's good to know that I don't need programming skills. Playing with numbers is easy enough, after the board game stuff I've been doing, and I'm a fairly good artist as well, good enough to do the kind of stuff that's in Dom2, anyway. I suppose I'll post some preliminary work in the next few days and gather some feedback.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

I had been thinking about doing a MBotF mod myself, though about the Pannion Domin.

It might be a good idea to download some mods and look at them to see how they work. The actual modding isn't too complicated, though reaching a point where the nation is both balanced and faithful to the concept may be difficult.

[ March 14, 2004, 05:44: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

Say - anyone know where in the USA the Malazan books can be obtained?

Thanks.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

I'm Canadian so I'm not totally sure, but stores like Coles or Barnes and Noble should have at least the most recent ones. The new book is slated for release in the next few months in trade paperback, though. And I'm sure you could get it on amazon.com.

Back to the previous point of this thread, I've done some preliminary design work on a Malazan army mod.

The basic design of the army set is to combine good mage skills, flexible, high-morale infantry, sappers, marines and some light cavalry with high-leadership commanders. Most of the core units have survival of various types to reflect the ability of the Malazan army to operate indendently from support.

I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate Moranth munitions into the Sapper units, without making them too powerful or too expensive, and I'm open to ideas on that score, since I'm not really content with just giving them a siege bonus and waltzing away.

Otherwise, priest powers will be weak, although the Priest of Fener will have decent leadership, to reflect his role as a battle priest.

In terms of missile weapons, they will have inexpensive light cavalry and Marines with assault crossbows (higher rate of fire than crossbows, lower precision and higher damage). They are not a missile-heavy army, although the assault crossbow provides short-range punch.

Mages come in 2 types, Cadre Mages who are relatively inexpensive and have astral 1 and 2 random picks, and high mages, who have astral one and 4 random picks, making the Malazans extremely flexible and unpredictable in terms of magery.

The Malazans also have Claw and Clawmaster units, stealthy assassins, and the Clawmaster have access to 1 random level of mage powers and leadership 5, which allows them to lead a full Claw into battle.

I'm also thinking of doing a special Pretender for the Malazans, the Ascendant Assassin, who would be a glamoured, stealthy very nasty combatant with air/death magic and the ability to summon Shadow Hounds (stealthy Shade Beasts) when his dominion is high.

Any feedback would be appreciated, as I'm trying to design this and also play enough games to get a feel for game balance, which I don't feel I have a handle on yet.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

This looks like the blueprints for a very powerful nation - between high-morale Infantry, flexible mages, and strong specialized assassin-mages, plus a tailor-made Assassin pretender, I'm afraid you'll have trouble balancing the thing...

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

The Malazan Empire will have to be powerful in order to be faithful to the concept. It has, after all, conquered 2 continents, and was working on a third at the beginning of the Gardens of the Moon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It should, IMO, be right up there with Pythium in relative strenght.

High mages are rare, and should be quite expensive and definately capital only. I'm pretty sure weapons can't be given area effects, so it isn't possible to model the Sappers accurately (yet).

If you include the Hounds of Shadow, they should be a lot tougher than Shade Beasts.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

I agree that they do look powerful on paper. That will somewhat be balanced by relatively high costs, both in gold and resources, and weak priests.

They should be tough, but they're also going to be a bit of a crapshoot to play, with random picks on mage abilities you can get lucky or screwed, and they'll play somewhat differently each time. I'm also going to give Malazan mages relatively low research values, so research will be a bit of a soft spot.

I also agree on the high mages, based on Illwinter's modding guidlines those boys will cost a pretty penny and will of course be capital-only. Likely looking at costs around that of a Demonbred or so.

As for the sappers, I'm thinking of doing something like the Star child ranged/spell effect, but with limited accuracy, fireball effect and very limited ammo. Might simulate the chaos that sappers cause pretty well.

Could be I'll make the infantry less high-morale and just give them lots of survivals skills, so they can go anywhere.

Hounds of Shadow *would* be tougher than shade beasts, but I'm not putting *real* Hounds in because that would make the balance problem worse.

In people's opinions, would those proposed negatives balance the powers somewhat? Or do I need to build in more weaknesses?

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well that'll be just a cross between Abysia, Arco and Pythium... For once we'll get a more powerful nation than those ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK (still reading book 2 - which is much easier to get into than book 1; have ordered the rest from Amazon...)...

You have to think big. Clearly, the Malazan empire has just been bashing some indie provinces, and has not yet encountered real opposition, by the start of Gardens of the Moon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

Lots of random picks are more powerful than lots of picks in predetermined paths, so you probably should make the High Mages more expensive than the mere number of magic picks would suggest.

Maybe you could set the mod in the time before Laseen's rule (and before Dancer and Kellanved gained mastery over the T'lan Imass too, since including them would make the mod pretty impossible to balance). Dancer and Surly could be in as assassin-mage heroes, Kellanved as a high mage hero and Dassem Ultor as a warrior hero. This would avoid any issues with the Hounds of Shadow, since they wouldn't be active yet.

Just some ideas.

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

I don't see why you couldn't tone the power down a bit and thus get full use of all the units you want. Perhaps this is a Malazan expedition outpost sent from their homeworld? Thus they would have to rely on the skill of the "natives" and be slightly worse than they are on their home turf. Perhaps the local setting works against them as well? There are a bunch of godlings walking about in the neighbouring empires after all. Perhaps something very dramatic happened which explains the presence of the pretender god in their empire?

Re: Malazan Mod concept
 

Well, in the books the Malazan armies do most of their best work when cut off from supplies, reinforcements or aid. One reason I thought that the whole Book of the Fallen would apply well to Dominions is because there ARE pretender, or aspiring gods wandering all over the place. Bloody books are crawling with Ascendent meddlers, which is pretty much the same thing.

When you add in the fact that Ascendents in the books can empower priests and their warrens can be used in sorcery, it does draw a lot of parallels.

I'm not sure about setting them pre-Laseen, though. I wanted my heroes to be Dujek, Whiskeyjack, Tayschrenn and maybe Coltaine. So many to choose from, really. But I don't want to create a munchkin nation, this is not my purpose, and I don't want to cc another nation. I'd like to get something that plays differently, and requires different strategies.

So, tone-down and still use what I want. OK, heavy-medium infantry, but not high morale. I'm going to use standards, though, although they will be expensive. No astral for the mages, and increase their cost by one step from the true number of picks they get. Assassins still, but uber-pricey, much like Machacka assassins.

I'll start testing this week, when I finish moving. Thanks for the continued feedback.