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-   -   THE best strategy game of all times! :D (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=1832)

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 04:08 PM

THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Aaron recently said in an interview he started programming with a Trash 80 ( as someone else called this basic computer of the 80's on this BB http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif). I think I'm even older than Aaron, because my first "computer" was a Sinclair ZX 80 (1 Kb onboard memory, plugged onto the TV, that's it). A bit later in time I was the proud owner of a Commodore 64 (between steps were actually the ZX 81 with 16 KB! onboard, and the TI 99, the first machine a Disk Drive was developed for and the possibility to hook on a Speech/Music module ! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif ("alert, alert, incoming missile", voiced by a, doubtless, very sexy female voice).

Ever since I got hooked by computers I looked out for a strategic game to (4x) etc, you know what I mean. There were some games available in this genre, but you can imagine how limited they were due to lack of available memory (unbelievable, not seen before 30 K of real machinecode gaming, and such alike advertisements for games in those years).

In spite of that, I liked the games that were available, and imagined how great it could be if a computer was designed at desktop size but having the same memory possibilities as the NASA Mainframe of those days.

Enough, now. We live in 2001. I own a Dell with 512 MB onboard memory. Now it's time for SE IV!

Aaron, Shrapnel, Richard, Modders, Players, Thank you. I DO feel this is the best strategy game EVER. So MUCH to 4 X, So much adjustable, changeable. So many people interested and playing a game ONLY AVAILABLE TO BUY AT THE INTERNET (but very well supported by Shrapnel and very quickly delivered to your doormat, even by standard mail!), So many Modders, willing to expand the players possibilities to the cheer unlimited, So much support by the designer, So much ear for the consumer's requests.

So little time to do anything else but playing the game.

I could also write: I like this game. But I guess the above expresses my feelings a bit better.

Happy gaming, everybody!
(Sorry about the lenght of this, but I had to express my feelings http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon6.gif )

Well, as it turned out http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif does not work if you put it in the subject line. Sorry about that!

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

[This message has been edited by nmoppa (edited 10 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nmoppa (edited 10 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nmoppa (edited 10 February 2001).]

pathfinder February 10th, 2001 04:41 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
while i haven't been computer gaming as long (only since the days of the Intel 8088 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif ); I must agree this is one of the best games I have had to experience. Why? For the reasons nmoppa states, I can essentially make my own game (this and Coambat Mission, by yet another indie company).

Ilove the way I can make up a race with its own ships and stuff AND kinda/sorta make it "behave" the way I want (still learning that!).

All in all one of the best gaming experience yet.

Thanks Shrapnel and MM (Aaron)!

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 10 February 2001).]

Atrocities February 10th, 2001 04:43 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
I believe it twas I who coined that phrase "Trash 80's"

I learned to program on them. Does anyone here remeber COLBALT?

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patric Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

pathfinder February 10th, 2001 04:45 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
ya, I remember the name *shudder* I did NOT have to program in it....basic was hard enough! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 04:51 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Yes, except it is COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language). The government used it almost exclusively at one point. It was very, very good at doing certain things. Which is why it hung around for so long. There are still a lot of COBOL production jobs running out there. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by ColdSteel (edited 10 February 2001).]

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 05:02 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
COBOL basically was a computer lanquage used for accountantcy purposes, at least it was meant for that. Not such a bad language for those days, though!

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 05:11 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
YES, Atrocities, It WAS you using these words to describe your feelings about the Tandy original computer bLaster of those days. May I assume you have also at least some knowledge about the ZX 80's I mentioned?

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

Kuroth February 10th, 2001 05:19 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Uh Just for your Info 80% of the "Worlds"
computer code is still in Cobol!!!!

You guys talked about it as if it was some
old language no longer in use http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think there was something called COLBALT.

I program in both VB and Coble using DB2
and IMS...

p.s. You can even make web pages with Cobol
these days!!!! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 05:20 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
COBOL is also really good at producing formatted reports. I kinda enjoyed writing COBOL programs. Oh, the memories.. takes me back...(sigh). http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 05:26 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Kuroth, there is even a object oriented Version of COBOL now. It's a language that just rufuses to die, even though many would like it to just go away. The Government tried to kill it 15 years ago with ADA and you see how far that got. LOL.

I didn't know there was a COBALT language. My sincere apologies, Atrocities.

pathfinder February 10th, 2001 05:29 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
hehe, as you may note, I am NOT a programmer at all. So this ability (to a very limited degree) to script the AI is kinda neat for this old fart. BTW I also, http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/blush.gif , had to learn FORTRAN IV http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...s/rolleyes.gif

Darn glad I do NOT have to make a living doing this! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 10 February 2001).]

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 05:54 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Well, I'm a programmer, though these days they've got me doing so much project management crap that I hardly have time for it anymore.

I've taught myself Visual Basic, Perl, C++ and a few others over the years. Once you learn one or two, they're all pretty much alike in most ways. The object oriented stuff and data structures were a bit different for an old procedure language coder, but even those concepts eventually fell before my massive intellect (uh, yeah, riiiight). http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif

I think programmers are drawn to SE4 like a moth to the flame. I love programming because you get to build something neat and solve problems. SE4 offers that in spades. And with the data files thrown in so you can mod away?? Well, it's Nirvana! (no, no, not Teen Spirit). Just wait until you see my new race and shipset. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 06:51 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Promises, promises, Coldsteel. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif. Anyway, I believe you and agree. Once more, if you need betatesting, contact me at ppacharles@planet.nl. Way to go, but finally THIS is the game that will be in the books of history long after we have met the Great Maker http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

Jon Brave February 10th, 2001 07:00 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
COBOL: an Object-Oriented Version, and ability to make Web pages! Whatever next? Does anybody think I should ditch VC++ & MFC for this?

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 07:05 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
I won't lie. I like good games where I can find them and Stars! Supernova Genesis looks awfully promising to me if they can ever find a new publisher for it and can get it out the door (now that Empire has bailed on them). If that happens I will buy it and try it out (as I have countless others). The development team there is also very responsive to the Stars! community (like SE4) and I think it is the only game right now that can give SE4 any real competition.

I think the 4x genre has room for more than one good and successful game. Successes by more than one company just means that more of these games will be developed in the future. This is all to the advantage of us gamers.

SE4 has a lot going for it (being first out of the gate, so to speak) but it still needs to evolve with the future patches to correct some serious shortcomings and to realize its full potential. With Aaron's track record to date, I think there's an excellent chance of that happening.

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 07:35 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Coldsteel, I didn't say or implied you lie. I agree in full what you wrote. I too am looking forward to Stars! Supernova, in fact I preordered it way back through Chips & Bits. Like you said, it's only good IF there are real competitors to games like SE IV. However, let's agree to this, THERE IS NONE http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

ColdSteel February 10th, 2001 08:24 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
nmoppa, I didn't think you were attacking me or saying/implying anything like that. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

What I meant is, I just have to be honest with everyone here about the fact that I don't think SE4 is perfect and that I think other games may come along later in the future that are better in some respects. Nothing is forever. Right now SE4 is the king of the heap. Best ever. But there's plenty of room for improvements and Aaron will have to work to keep it there. That's all I meant.

nmoppa February 10th, 2001 09:21 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
I fully agree, Coldsteel.

------------------
PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE <Worf facing another critical fight>

raynor February 10th, 2001 10:36 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon Brave:
COBOL: an Object-Oriented Version, and ability to make Web pages! Whatever next? Does anybody think I should ditch VC++ & MFC for this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should ditch *both* of those for Delphi. IMHO, Delphi is the best RAD (Rapid Application and Development) language out there. It has great support for databases, the internet, etc. Oh, and by the way, what do you think SEIV was written in? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif


raynor February 10th, 2001 10:41 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ColdSteel:
COBOL is also really good at producing formatted reports. I kinda enjoyed writing COBOL programs. Oh, the memories.. takes me back...(sigh). http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A 'C/C++' programmer like me goes into convulsions when he hears someone say they *enjoy?!?* writing programs in COBOL.

Help! I'm having a seizure!! Someone, quick! Bring me an obfuscated C program to look at! Better if you put the entire program on just one line! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Programming Axioms:
1. Every program can be reduced by one line.
2. Every program has at least one bug.

Corollary:
Every program can be reduced to one line that doesn't work!

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alpha Kodiak February 10th, 2001 10:59 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
Help! I'm having a seizure!! Someone, quick! Bring me an obfuscated C program to look at! Better if you put the entire program on just one line! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Programming Axioms:
1. Every program can be reduced by one line.
2. Every program has at least one bug.

Corollary:
Every program can be reduced to one line that doesn't work!

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, there are those of us who have to go back and maintain those obfuscated programs (he says, sitting at work on a Saturday, taking a break from fighting with 5-10 year old LISP code that was written by people who thought that all variables should be global in scope http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon8.gif ) and we WILL find you eventually! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif


[This message has been edited by Alpha Kodiak (edited 10 February 2001).]

Instar February 11th, 2001 01:53 AM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
#include &lt;stdio.h&gt;

void main()
{
printf("Go lay an egg, you bumbling freak!\n");
}


raynor February 11th, 2001 02:03 AM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Instar:
#include &lt;stdio.h&gt;
void main()
{
printf("Go lay an egg, you bumbling freak!\n");
}
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Basic syntax is correct. But this entry won't even earn third prize in an obfuscated C contest. Maybe if you'd at least written it as:

#include &lt;stdio.h&gt;
void main(){printf("Go lay an egg, you bumbling freak!\n"); }



raynor February 11th, 2001 02:07 AM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>[b] Of course, there are those of us who have to go back and maintain those obfuscated programs (he says, sitting at work on a Saturday, taking a break from fighting with 5-10 year old LISP code that was written by people who thought that all variables should be global in scope http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon8.gif ) and we WILL find you eventually! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't you wish that you could convince your boss that in most cases, it really is easier to write the whole thing from scratch than try to figure out what the other guy was thinking?

'Write all your programs as if the next guy to work on it is an axe-murderer who knows where you live.'

Jon Brave February 11th, 2001 12:55 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
You should ditch *both* of those for Delphi. IMHO, Delphi is the best RAD (Rapid Application and Development) language out there. It has great support for databases, the internet, etc. Oh, and by the way, what do you think SEIV was written in? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SEIV? O-O (Web) COBOL, undoubtedly. I can imagine:
WITH BIG-SHIP-HAVING-LOTS-OF-GUNS DO ...
or something to that effect.


Alpha Kodiak February 11th, 2001 06:18 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
Don't you wish that you could convince your boss that in most cases, it really is easier to write the whole thing from scratch than try to figure out what the other guy was thinking?

'Write all your programs as if the next guy to work on it is an axe-murderer who knows where you live.'
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, I have been lucky, and we have been allowed to rewrite most of our multi-million line app over the Last several years. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases where we all (myself included http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/blush.gif) thought that it would be easy to migrate this code to our new system. Oh well, live and learn!

Zanthis February 11th, 2001 07:16 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
Instar wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
#include &lt;stdio.h&gt;
void main()
{
printf("Go lay an egg, you bumbling freak!\n");
}<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Assuming this is C, main() must return an int. If your compiler accepts void as main()'s return type, you've been lucky. Obviously, this means you'd need to add a return statement returning zero.

Sorry for the nitpick. Seen this very error in college level books and it kinda annoys me knowing we are teaching future programmers bad habits.

[This message has been edited by Zanthis (edited 11 February 2001).]

Instar February 11th, 2001 10:18 PM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
What? I have seen that syntax, but I never understood why. It couldn't be the errorcode thingy returned to DOS, could it? (The exit() function does that)
I have never heard of the main func returning an int, and I'll always declare it void main (Unless its changed and I have to, or someone offers me money)

raynor February 12th, 2001 02:05 AM

Re: THE best strategy game of all times! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon Brave:
SEIV? O-O (Web) COBOL, undoubtedly. I can imagine:
WITH BIG-SHIP-HAVING-LOTS-OF-GUNS DO ...
or something to that effect.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif


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