Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Would anyone be kind enough to either post here or post a link to some information on what an
Absolute Beginner (such as: myself) needs to know to "host" MP games on a Windows computer? I found the information posted here by very helpful people to be fascinating, but not explicit enough for the Absolutely Computer Illiterate (such as yours truly).

Some of the Things I Would Like to Know:
- The Obvious (Is Not Obvious To Me): How do I figure out my IP address? (I dont need that if it is PBEM, right?) Someone told me this changes from day to day, how do I find it out? How do I figure out which "Port" to use?
- Safety: Someone told me that if others find out my IP address and port information, they can "hack" my computer, that I should never let others know this. Is this true? So when hosting a DII game, I am making an exception for nice DomII players who will never hack me because they are per definitionem cute and cuddly and friendly etc., or is there some trick I must know? Does somehow a "router" come into play here, and can that cause problems?

Thanks very much.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

To find out your ip-address, start/run "cmd", then when the black window pops out type "ipconfig". The second value should be ip-address.

Port can be anyhting as long as all players are using the same port. Also, as ports under 1024 are reserved for special use, it's customary to pick a (considerable) higher one, like 20000.

And for safety: Think of your ip-address as your home-address. If no-one knows it, no-one can ever come throw stones at your windows. Also, if no-one knows it you will never recieve mail or have anyone visit.

For you to ever get anything from the web you have to send in your address. For example your ip-address will be visible to the webmasters of every web-page you ever view. When you loaded this page your computer sent your ip-address and a page request to shrapnelgames.com (69.56.133.50), that then processed the request and sent a reply to your address.

So, trying to hide your ip-address is rather futile...

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Not to hijack the thread, but since it's here, I think I finally got mine set up host but as I really don't know what I'm doing, anyone want to try to connect to 192.168.1.100 6060 and tell me if it's working? Thanks!

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Bleh, just realized I can't have DHCP going for that, can I? Have to play around a bit more I guess, don't bother trying to connect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To further the analogy, some people just drive around and throw rock to every window they see. So, even hiding your address (real or ip) won't save you as long as your house is facing the road or on the internet.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Ok, think I finally got it, if anyone is feeling generous with their time, please try 24.197.202.97 6060 and let me know, thanks very much!

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Works fine for me.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your IP address is part of everything you do on the net. I can see your IP address in your Posts (though I think thats only a moderator button), and in your emails, and in Posts you do to newsGroups. Any website you visit can see your IP address. Just about any connection you make has your IP in it although most programs (email browsers newsgroup) doesnt show it to you becuase if figures you are interested in all that.

But yes if you are a dialup connection then you get a different IP everytime you dial in. There are alot of ways to find out such as using your control panel in windows. But the easiest is probably using the fact that websites see your address. There are alot of sites that will tell you what they see. Try this one...
http://iso.hsc.wvu.edu/ip.asp

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No you dont need it for PBEM

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually you can use any of over 65000 ports that arent already in use. The problem is that some ports are known to be used by certain programs and can report that you are running things you arent. Such as a port which might cause your ISP to think you are infected, or cause people who are searching to think you are running a service susceptable to attack. For me I stick between 7001-8000 which seems pretty unused.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">**growl**. Sorry but thats a pet peeve for me. The proper term is "crack" not hack. Only tv/movies/newsmedia mix up hacker and crackers.

But thats beside the point. The information you were given is true enough but not really a big deal. As I already covered your IP address is not secret info if you are using the internet. And its more of a worry for people who have the same IP all the time like DSL and Cable Users. Also, attacks tend to come because a search found a program running which is vulnerable. Crackers will probe thru huge blocks of IP numbers to see if certain programs are running then come back to test and see if they are properly patched. If you ran your game on a port which seems to be one of those programs then you might get a return test but even then they would find out that you arent running what they think. I doubt very much that anyone would recognize Dominions2 and certainly would have no idea how to use it to reach anything else on your machine. Dont worry, your machine is made much more susceptable by things like Outlook Express than by Dominions2.

Quote:

Does somehow a "router" come into play here, and can that cause problems?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Pros and Cons to security. There is such as thing as a ridiculous amount of security. Routers, hubs, firewalls, virus scanners, etc etc. All can add to your security but if you stack every security thing that you ever hear of then it can get in the way of you doing things you want to use the computer for. You may have to take an extra effort to learn the thing you are using as security in order to find out how to tell it that you want to let certain people come thru on certain ports.

--
System Administrator and Host of www.alt-hacker.org
the home of the alt.hacker newsgroup

[ March 29, 2004, 15:26: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

OK thanks, that was helpful. I will try to test it out when feeling brave.
And quite honestly, never heard of the term "crack", ever (in regards to computers), and despite being a computer idiot I do read lots of newspapers and watch all films in the English original (I live in Germany).

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Hacker should mean someone who knows a lot about how computers actually work, so hackers would be expert Users knowing how to tweak a computer, make a program, and the list goes on. On the other hand, a cracker is someone attempting to break through computers, sites, and so on.

So while hacker usually means "computer literate" (in short, feel free to expand), cracker is more specific to illegal activies. But both words are often mixed, and hacker is used to describe what should be cracking. I am not sure if I make much sense though... *Grumbles*

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I take it you're behind a router. 192.168.1.100 is no adress that can be seen from the outside but a local one assigned from dhcp. So you need to get the real ip adress of your router and setup port fowarding to the machine that is running dominions.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I take it you're behind a router. 192.168.1.100 is no adress that can be seen from the outside but a local one assigned from dhcp. So you need to get the real ip adress of your router and setup port fowarding to the machine that is running dominions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Torvak, were you replying to me? Well I play Dii on different computers, depending on where I am. Does figuring out the "real" IP of the router something different than that /cmd thingy mentioned in those previous Posts? Is the IP of the router different than that of the computer?
sorry

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Getting back to the initial topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Has anyone got the command line to setup a host, gens when all turns are submitted + 24 hr if not.

Additionally to spice it up, i;ve seen one send an email when the turn is genned is that possible.

I'm playing 2 games at the mo one ip one pbem. Usually I swear by pbem but Doms 2 ip is very well done.

Tals

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I take it you're behind a router. 192.168.1.100 is no adress that can be seen from the outside but a local one assigned from dhcp. So you need to get the real ip adress of your router and setup port fowarding to the machine that is running dominions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Torvak, were you replying to me? Well I play Dii on different computers, depending on where I am. Does figuring out the "real" IP of the router something different than that /cmd thingy mentioned in those previous Posts? Is the IP of the router different than that of the computer?
sorry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you have a router, and the machine that is supposed to be the server is on a LAN that's connected to the internet through the router, then most likely asking for the IP# of the machine will give you some "internet-invalid" address like 192.168.0.?

If that's the case, then you need to figure out what the IP address of the router is, setup the router to forward anything it receives on port YYY to 192.168.0.whatever (the local IP of your machine), port ZZZ.

Then launch the server on port ZZZ, and tell other players to connect to (the IP of your router), port YYY.

Essentially, the router makes it so that anything it receives on a certain port arrives on one of the machines on your LAN, at another (or the same) port.

Thus, several servers, running (apparently) on the same IP address, only at different ports, could in fact run on different machines.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For which operating system? Solaris? Mac? Linux? WIndows? (it does make a difference. Especially for question 2)

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Windows OS.

Tals

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ouch. All I can offer is an example of what I used in Linux which is probably twice as complicated as you need....

nohup dom2 -STq --nonationsel --port 7011 -g RyanEye -t 0 0 -t 1 0 -t 2 0 -t 3 0
-t 4 0 -t 5 0 -t 6 0 --postexec /home/dominion/dominions2/RyanEye.cmd >/dev/null 2>>RyanEye.err &

The -q does a quick processing if everyone gets their turns in. The -t commands say at each day (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) at midnight (0) process if there wasnt a quickturn. I think thats what you were most interested in.

The postexec calls a .cmd command script which updated a web page and sent emails. I wasnt mailing back turns though so now I would probably use the new --preexec so I could add a directory view of the game files. That would give me an email record of who did and didnt turn in turns. Who was first, who was Last, who didnt get one in at all. For sending out turns --postexec would be better.

I host in linux and play in windows. Im not sure how to do things with a postexec or preexec script in windows (a batch file with .bat extension probably). The only thing I would use it for would be to play a sound and let me know to do another turn for directly connected games.

[ March 30, 2004, 16:44: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

hold it, HOLD IT!!!

I am the master of Windows OS hosting. What seems to be the problem? Hmm? What SEEEMS!!! to BE!!! thE ProBLEM!!!?? WHAT!! SEEMS!!! TO!!! BE THE!!!! PROBLEM?!?!? EHY??? TELL ME, COME ON!!!

WEEE!!

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well his original question was.....
Has anyone got the command line to setup a host, gens when all turns are submitted + 24 hr if not.
Additionally to spice it up, i;ve seen one send an email when the turn is genned is that possible.

to which we can now add "for Windows"

[ March 30, 2004, 20:48: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

Has anyone got the command line to setup a host, gens when all turns are submitted + 24 hr if not.
Additionally to spice it up, i;ve seen one send an email when the turn is genned is that possible.


Arrite, there is no command line to send e-mails. It is probably a 3rd party program. Quickhosting AND 24 hour turn generation is not a good idea. It is one or the other. The reason for this is the Last person could take their turn at 7pm and the turn generates. Then the same person takes their turn at 7:05pm. 5 hours later, the turn is hosted and only that person who took their turn at 7:05pm got their turn in because no one else knew the game hosted at 7:00pm. Here is the command line I use:

"C:\Program Files\Dominions 2\dom2.exe" --port #### --tcpserver -wqxxx FileName

--port specifies the port used
--tcpserver makes the shortcut run a server
-w windows mode
-q quickhost
-xxx use lowest graphics possible
FileName is what you named the game/folder

[ March 30, 2004, 22:04: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

I'll do some researching once I return from my holidays - need to chat to Moggy, as I believe she is on a windows machine and her games send out emails after each turn. Works very very nicely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tals

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

I'm a she? Hang on, let me check the tackle...

... ...

Nope. definitely not a she http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'm hosting three games right now. One game is in it's second month so I feel pretty plucky about hosting.

To add a few comments:

I'm finding that quick host and +24 hours works really well. When you start the game the next host is set for 24 hours later. If all players complete their turn, the game hosts and the next host time is set for 24 hours later.

The exploit you mention isn't possible. If, however, you set the game to quick host and a SET host time (e.g. 3am each day) then the exploit you mention is very possible.

I'm using a windows program called postie to send out the email each time the game hosts. I call postie from a bat file which I put as the game's command.

So, for each game I create a shortcut. The target in the shortcut is:

"C:\Program Files\dominions2\dom2.exe" -atnwqS --noanimback --noclientstart --tcpserver --port 2006 --hours 24 --postexec c:\dominionsserveremail\2006sendemail.bat GG_Karan

2006sendemail.bat contains:

c:\postie\postie -host:moggycorp.com -pass:XXX -s:"Dominions II game on moggycorp.com:2006 has hosted" -from:XXXX@XXXX.XXX -to:YYYY@YYYY.YYYY,ZZZZ@ZZZZZ.ZZZ -file:C:\DominionsServerEmail\message.txt

I've replaced the email addresses to protect the guilty.

Works like a charm. I wish there was a way to set each game up as a service. That way I wouldn't have to have a bunch of windows open, each containing a game, but it's OK as it stands.

I have found I've needed to restart the servers a few times. After a few weeks the game sometimes goes into la-la land. Killing the process and restarting works easy enough.

Now if only my game playing was as good as my game hosting...

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree about that particular (non-existent) exploit and I have something to add about quickhost with set host times.

I experimented with one set time + quickhost. My time was 11 pm Mondays for a "once weekly" game. All turns were completed about 2 hours BEFORE 11 pm on Monday, and the "next host time" updated to 170 hours, which was 11 pm the following Monday.

It ignored the scheduled host later on the same Monday in which the turns were completed.

I imagine that if I had entered a set time for Tuesday, it would have updated the "next host" to that date/time, but would a second quickhost turn on Monday haved cause the Tuesday host to be skipped? Dunno, did not test that.

I am guessing that quickhost causes the next set time to be skipped, but I have no idea whether it is cumulative, i.e., whether two quickhosts causes the next two host times to be skipped, becuase I did not test that.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Excellent information. The commandline I gave was supposed to work according to illwinter tough I did have some problems with quick and set times. Mostly I think it was when I had to restart the script, I guess I messed up something in its awareness of a turn.

Im sorry I mentioned --preexec. The devs say its in but I cant find it. I havent actually tried it to see if its in and just not documented. That would be easy to do since it would be just a cut-n-paste of the --postexec routine.

The postie info is good to know. Are you able to do file attaches of turn files?

The need to restart after a time might be something that some of us have noticed about the connections not clearing themselves out. For some reason we seem to get a buildup of dead connections. The Last patch might have fixed that.

Re: Hosting for Absolute Beginners
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you need to get the registered Version to be able to attach files.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm running 2.8. Is there another patch coming out?

I'm thinking I want to do a server re-boot once a week. With the shortcuts in the startup group, this should also take care of the hung connections. The only downside would be the resetting of the next host time back 24 hours.