"Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Hey, everyone. I just got my full Version of the game yesterday (YAY!). My monitor blew out an hour later (BOO!). And no, that Last comment is serious... I think I live in a Misfortune Dominion or something... anyway, that notwithstanding, I plan to start a BF Ulm game, and thought to maybe use it to show a Newbie's way of 'getting a handle' on Blood Magic. I'm not playing Mictlan primarily because I don't want to die if I mishandle it.

Before I start, however, I had one major question regarding Pretender design, and may run two concurrent games to assess the difference. The current idea is to go with the following:

Vampire Queen
(3 Water OR 3 Earth), 3 Death, 4 Blood
Order 3, Productivity 0, Death 1, Misfortune 1, Magic 3.
Dominion 5 (maybe 6, can't remember)...
Fort type: Fortress

Now, obviously, the big question is whether or not to take Water or Earth magic. The way I see it, they both have their advantages, which I will try to list below.

Water Pro: Able to cast Quickness (and Breath of Winter) for early expansion.
Earth Pro: Able to cast Stoneskin for early expansion.
Advantage: All things being equal, I think Quickness is more useful here, so Water.

Water Pro: Able to cast Sea King's Court.
Earth Pro: Able to cast Troll King's Court.
Advantage: AFAICT, Sea Trolls are about the same as normal Trolls, the spells cost the same in the relevant type of gem, the Sea Trolls can enter the water, and the Sea King generates Water gems. So the advantage here is again with Water. However, this is mitigated somewhat (see below).

Water Pro: Allows Forging of Clams.
Earth Pro: Allows Forging of Bloodstones.
Advantage: While I don't want to go into a large debate over whether Clams are 'broken', I think that, for this build, Bloodstones will be superior to Clams. Bloodstones beget more Bloodstones a lot easier than Clams beget more Clams, if you're using Blood Magic anyway. So advantage here is with Earth. (The mitigating factor that I mentioned above is that, with Blood Stone production, I can probably crank out more Troll King's Courts than Sea King's Courts.)

Now, to this point, it's all pretty even. When you consider other Construction possibilities coupled with BF Ulm natural strengths, however, I think that the balance shifts to Earth. Here's why.

With Earth 3, my VQ could Forge Earth Boots, Dwarven Hammers, and Blood Stones. With Earth Boots and a Blood Stone (BTW, do 2 Blood Stones stack?), she has the 5 Earth required to cast Forge of the Ancients. Once Forge of the Ancients is up, Soul Contracts can be made for 30 Blood Slaves each (assuming a Dwarven Hammer as well). BF Ulm also has a commander (the Blood Count) who flies and can command a large number of Devils.

With Water 3, OTOH, my VQ can naturally enter water, and can summon Ice Devils naturally. Now, having just gotten the full game, I don't really know what Ice Devils are capable of, but I hear a lot of people speak highly of them. I don't know if they're worth passing up Forged Soul Contracts, however.

I would like to see discussion on which path people here think is stronger, and/or which they would like to see written up in an AAR. Also, if you would like to see concurrent AARs, I am willing to do that as well.

Anyway, thanks for reading. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

My completely biased opinion: drop one death (can cheaply be gotten by an item) and one magic and take e3 w2. Ironskin Quickness Breath of Winter earth might VQ's rock as sc's... just give her one shield so she'll survive until the fatique removal of life drain kicks in, and she'll be fine. That way she will have the best of both worlds...

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

i 2nd the option for having 3 earth 2 water

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

You don't even need to have 3 Earth, but 2 earth will work if you need to.

You forgot the most basic reason to have Water for a Blood Nation: Blood.

Earth + Blood = Demon Knights, Father Illearth (The first is not generally used by your Pretender, but for the sake of argument, Father Illearth is Nice but he's only 1 Summon)

Water + Blood = Frost Fiends, Ice Devil (Again, the first isn't that important, the second gives you 7 SC's)

At best your mages are going to be able to summon Fallen Angels (with items). So you have to look to your pretender as being able to fill in the gaps of your national units/mages. I'd take at least 3 Death so you can make Skull Staff/Skullface if you need and of course summoning Vampire Counts early in the game (Might drop 1 Blood as you can forge your way up to whatever you need there).

Soul Contracts vs ID's, unless I was planning on a very long game for alot of return investment I tend to stay far away from Soul Contracts. That is mostly useful for base Ulm for Blood (because it's easy to empower then equip a few smiths to make what you need to make).

[ April 02, 2004, 16:34: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Skull staff can be made with 2 death, right? after that, you can make a skullface.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Yes, but you can't summon a VC until you have 3D. I usually tend to summon a VC before I hit Construction 4 (so that's my preference) I also never seem to have enough Death Gems initially playing with BF because of the use of searching spells (3 Death a pop).

But if you don't plan on using VC's you don't have to worry about 3D.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Having proposed a question, and hearing the arguments on both sides, I have done what any sane person would do in this case; I took both options. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And thus begins the saga of....

Irma, Queen that Hungers, Sovereign of Sin
Water 3, Earth 3, Death 3, Blood 4
Order 1, Death 1, Misfortune 1, Magic 3
Dominion 5
Castle: Fortress

14 players (all but Ermor/Atlantis/R'lyeh) on the Inland map.
Starting number of provinces: 1
Indep Strength: 5
Special Site Freq: 50
Richness: Normal
Random Event: Rare
Score Graph: Disabled

"And so it begins..."

The keep had fallen, as Irma knew it would. The hunger wrought by the Malediction filled her, as it did all the nobles left in the kingdom. Well, in her case, 'noble' would be overstepping matters a bit. Her darkest secret was that she was the heir to the legacy of the Master Smiths, who had been put to the sword (or the stake) by the Inquisitors of the Black Temple; heir to the knowledge of the Forge that the Inquisitors had stolen; heir to the true strength of Ulm.

For her part, her rise in power was based upon the blood of the Inquisitors. Not that it was pure enough for magical ends. Indeed not. No, she fed upon them, as they had fed upon the Smiths. And now, she was coming to bring the blessing of the Malediction upon the world.

Okay, so I start in Province 19. Doesn't mean a thing to me, but it might to those of you who have played the Inland map a lot. Looking around, I have the plains of Cun Aral, the plains of Fenatice, the mountainous Waywoods, the Cacevic Highlands, and the plains of Dotian surrounding me. Not bad as a beginning location. Hopefully I will be able to blood hunt in one of the plains adjacent to the capital while reaping the rewards of the mountains to the south.

On to the commanders. Karl, the Commander of Ulm, is going to become Irma's prophet, spreading the Malediction to all. Nan Bagor, our humble Wolfherd, is going to check more closely on the inhabitants of the Cun Aral plains. Finally, Irma is going to research Alteration magic.

As for initial expenditures, Rexor's Barbarians are up for hire, so I bid 155 gold for their services. As for more... reliable minions, I pay for a Fortuneteller (90), and 12 Rangers of Ulm (144).

Status Report:

Treasury: 11
Income: 182
Upkeep: 16
Gems: 1S3D1N (+1S+3D+1N)

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

I will be following this thread with interest as i find Black Forest Ulm to be a painfully weak and insipid theme.

From what ive gathered from other threads, most like Black Forest because of Vampire Counts and their ability to rout independents. Well, that must be all that Ulm has.

Having only the generic priest available for duty means you cannot cast any morale support without your prophet. Having no sacred units means you can't ever build for bless effects. Virtually every unit has a mere 10 morale, which is downright terrible and makes Ulm the equal in morale weakness with the worst civs. Having only 1 Blood, 160 gold, non-sacred mages means you HAVE to use scouts, meaning you have to blood hunt the whole country and spend dozens of turns building scouts.

Personally, imo, i don't see the point. Its a theme built around a specific Pretender.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fortune tellers can forge horns of valor which will solve all of your morale problems.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scouts are more efficient for blood hunting than almost any other blood hunters, so this isn't a real weakness.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You could not be more wrong here. BF is possibly one of the most powerfull themes there if you know how to use their strengths. And it's actually even easier to use it for beginners then default Ulm. One of their best strengths are rangers. You can build masses of them just like man can build longbows, but rangers use armor piercing crossbows which are better at taking HI and HC which helps incredibly at early expansion. Heck, in MP you have a chance to take out 2 players out before real magic starts to kick in. You don't know how powerfull they are until you play against it in MP and you suddenly face large masses of rangers (who have high accuracy by the way) that start to effectively erase you troops backed up by a hard to penetrate wall of Ulm HI.
The really scary part is that BF can recruit those rangers really, really fast so you will probably face them much sooner then you can build effective defense.

BF also allows you to take Misfortune 3 and get away with it. Just build dozens of Fortunetellers and keep them in capitol. Chances for bad events are capitol based IIRC, and it will suppress most of bad events. Of course, that will mean that you don't get national heroes either, but you do get lots of nice design points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

You don't need to rush VC to play this theme effectively. And it DOES allow you to get Ice Devils later on, which normal Ulm wouldn't be able to, at least not easily.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All this is true for normal Ulm as well, so this is not really weakness of BF but Ulm in general. As Graeme Dice said, there are workarounds to tackle these problems, but in the beginning your prophet is going to have to carry the burden of sustaining morale of your troops.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is why it's important to have a pretender with Blood magic to speed up the things (like VQ).

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Personally, SelfishGene, I have to go with Daynarr here. BF Ulm, while not having a very good magical base (it IS Ulm, after all), or a very diverse troop base, has most everything you need to play.

First, the Rangers are quite powerful. As others have said, the ability to mass-produce them works very well. Second, you get excellent heavy infantry in the Morningstar Infantry of Ulm. Third, you get free, speedy, expendable flankers with the Wolfherd's wolves. They are excellent to shut down enemy archers and mages, crossbowmen especially.

Finally, you get access to slightly more diverse paths than base Ulm, and Communion. Something I've contemplated is this. Sabbath and Communion work with each other, right? So, if I enter my Vampire Queen or Blood Counts into a Sabbath while my other Mages go into Communion, and one of my Astral mages cast Astral Shield, my VQ/BCs will get the Shield without needing Astral Magic, correct? I might need this later, and thought to check now.

Also, I'm on turn 7 'in game', and I've gotten a Hero that I don't think anyone has commented on. Has anyone else seen Ulrich, the Ghoul Baron? If you want, I can post his stats when I write up his turn.

Anyway, on to the writing! Oh, and if you want to refer to me, it's "Tasogare" or "Taso" or "That incompetent supercilious idiot." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif My handle is written in Japanese style.

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They will only get the astral shield if they are the slaves and a master casts the spell.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

So... I can have my VQ/BCs absorbing the fatigue cost of my spells (and healing it through Life Drain attacks), and getting Astral Shield and whatnot?

Sounds good to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 2

Irma reclined on her throne made from the skulls of the Inquisition, and called for the report from Nan Bagor. Apparently, with the passing of the Malediction, the people of Cun Aral had reverted to barbarism, and 25 of them stood in the path of her armies. She dismissed him, and asked if the Fortuneteller she had requested had arrived or not.

Her chamberlain hesitated. "She... has arrived, Your Majesty. However..." He trailed off as she leaned forward intently.

"However..? Lord Chamberlain, I do not like my commands disobeyed. Where is sh..." Irma trailed off as a woman entered the throne room, looking somehow determinedly vacuous.

"Your majesty, may I introduce the Fortuneteller you requested?" The Chamberlain seemed eager to withdraw, and so Irma waved her hand dismissively.

"My dear, you must have been quite fatigued from the trip," Irma purred at the new arrival.

The Fortuneteller giggled, and replied, "The wolf does not know that the serpent hunts for it."

Starting to wonder at the girl's sanity, Irma continued, "What do you know that can help me in my mission to bring the Malediction to all?"

At that, the Fortuneteller laughed out loud. "A curse cannot be spread with a blessing," she said.

Irma's eyes narrowed in displeasure. "Are you having sport with me, woman? What is your name?"

The girl's eyes focused momentarily, and said hesitantly, "I do not remember. Once I started to See, I have been known as Coma."

Irma's anger changed abruptly to amusement. "You were well-named, child. Come, and help me in my studies."

And that is how Coma (2S) the Fortuneteller came into the service of Irma.

I got the Barbarians. Removing 3 Pikemen from Karl's formation (he started with 16), I put the 12 Rangers with him, put them off to the side, and along with Rexor's troops, have them go off into Fenatice. My reports had said that it had ~8000 pop, and so it would be a good province to Blood Hunt in. Also, I had seen bad Dominion to its NW, so I wanted to grab the province before someone else could. While Irma and Coma continue researching Alteration, Nan Bagor summons a couple of wolves. I pay 156 gold for another Fortuneteller, 3 Rangers, and 3 Morningstar Infantry (I greatly prefer these to Pikemen when using Rangers, because the shields help to cut down on friendly fire).

Summary:

Treasury: 8
Income: 180 (-2)
Upkeep: 29 (+13)
Gems: 2S6D2N
Gem Income: 1S3D1N
Research: Alteration 1 anticipated
Research Income: 25 of 25

As always, comments welcome.

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Do post the stats of Ulrich.

Also, the communion/sabbath thing does not work, because the slaves will not do anyhting after becoming slaves. This is probably to save them from getting fatique, so giving astral shield to people who are essentially o0n "hold" orders is not very productive...

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Hmm, I've just finished up a game with a lot of Communion magic going on. The Slaves cast spells quite freely after the first Communion Slave as long as I told them too. Maybe Sabbath Slaves are different. I haven't messed around with them.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Well i wasn't aware that the effects of Fortune Tellers stacked nor that how influential the luck value in the capital was throughout the kingdom.

Ulm crossbows are a great deal with 12 precision. I guess i was trying to play Ulm as a blood nation and found them sorely lacking in that regards compared to the others.

And i must admit, ive yet to use any sort of communion or sabbath mage combos in either single or multi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . So i can't judge the usefulness of Ulm's large supply of 1 Astral casters.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

I thought I'd offer a little advise to those who use VC's and their uses.

Reasons I use VC's:

1. Summon Lammashatas (Go immortality)
2. Cut supply lines inside your dominion without fear.
3. High Surviviable Leadership with Stealth (Important midgame after you've steamrolled 2 or 3 people and people trying to assassinate, etc).
4. 2 Death and 2 Blood allow you to summon Bane Lords and Blood Thorns.
5. In a Communion can Drain Life like a Champ.

All of these things make me use VC's. Don't look away from the good advise of some of those here, but also don't forget the lowly VC. He fills a gap for BF Ulm and can be changed to suit your needs because of his Blood-Only Resource cost. And until you need him he can provide you with Slaves to feed your ID addiction.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If I remember correctly, the luck scale in the capital determines whether the events that happen will be good or bad events. Fortune tellers only protect the particular province they are in from a bad event.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 3

No real story this turn. Sorry. I'm not very good at writing this stuff.

Anyway.

I get several surprises in the Messages. First and foremost, there was not 1 but 2 battles in Fenatice Last turn. I also see that I had an event in Ulm... dreading the worst, I am pleasantly surprised that it's a benign finding of 5 Air Gems. Now, if I only had an Air Mage...

Anyway, Pythium and Caelum make prophets out of a Serpent Lord and a Storm General, respectively.

I look at the first battle of Fenatice, and see that I had taken out the LI/X-bow enemies losing only 2 troops (I think Barbarians). Looking at the second battle, I find out that C'tis also wanted the province, but I beat him out destroying his initial army losing 12 troops of my own. I plan to capitalize on this immediately.

Finally, Evita (1S1N) joins Irma & the Ditz (WB show coming soon!) in the research squad.

Now, for orders:

Karl + Rexor move to attack the C'tissian province of Zimmria, located to the NW of Fenatice. The plan is to see if we can rapidly roll back C'tis to their starting province, and take them out before they get any worse.

Nan Bagor takes the troops produced so far (minus the Wolves) and moves to Fenatice.

My mages research.

I recruit a 3rd Fortuneteller, 3 Morningstar Infantry, and 4 Rangers (168 gold).

I reduce taxes in Fenatice to 50%, to offset unrest.

Status Report:

Treasury 11
Income 196 (+16)
Upkeep 40 (+11)
Gems: 5A3S9D3N
Gem Income: +1S+3D+1N
Research: Alteration(2), Thaumaturgy
Research 'Income': 32 of 32

More to come, so stay tuned!

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Sounds like the plans are a-rolling. Keep us updated. I might actually get back to the Caelum game a bit later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Wyatt

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

How does the scout hunting nerf of the new patch affect your hunting operations?

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To be perfectly honest, I don't expect it to hurt it in the least. I didn't really plan on hiring Scouts to do my Bloodhunting; it may be (have been?) more economical, but I dislike the vagaries of the market, as it were. OTOH, I haven't started blood hunting yet; for me, the Blood Count is a good commander (my best, in fact) and a good mage, but I don't feel he justifies the early redirection of resources towards bloodhunting that it requires to get him. The other thing is that the provinces I've conquered so far had no scouts and not enough resources to build independent Commanders (which may come to bite me in the ***). We'll see.

Also, for those that wanted Ulrich's stats:

Ulrich Patrifagus (and yes, he ate his father; good naming, IW)
the Ghoul Baron

(stats in parentheses are for equipment that he comes with)

HP: 18
Protection: 0 (19)
Morale: 18
Magic Resistance: 12
Encumbrance: 0
Strength: 14
Attack: 12 (13)
Defense: 11 (4)
Precision: 10
Move: 1/7
Leadership: 25/70/0
Unholy 2(!), Sacred, Cause Fear(-3), Undead, Poison Resistance (100), Need Not Eat
Weapons: Flail
Armor: Helm, Full Plate of Ulm

I'll try to get the next few turns up before too much longer.

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you purchase a commander in those provinces, it will appear some turns later when all the necessary resources have been spent.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Graeme, I'm aware of that fact. However, as you can probably tell already, I'm going through my money paying for what is, to me, more important things. Getting Ulrich when I did was actually quite nice for me, since he can move troops around.

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wasn't sure if you were aware that resources accumulated towards a unit if they were very low in a province. I know that I wasn't for a very long time, and wanted to make sure that people realized how it worked.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 4

No real news for this turn, as far as Messages. Machaka makes Abasi the Hero into a Prophet... I guess that's better than a stupid Bane Spider...

My forces take Zimmria basically unopposed. When I do so, I find C'tis to its NE. I see several things that make me relatively happy about it. First, they have a Mausoleum for a Fortress. While perhaps thematically appropriate, they are vulnerable to attack. Second, they have Serpent Dancers as their primary defense. While that may be a problem, it means they're playing base C'tis, so I won't have to worry about Undead or Miasma. Finally, their Pretender is an Archmage. Overall, it could have been much worse there.

Evita (2S) the Fortuneteller joins the coven, who all research. Both Thaumaturgy 1 and Construction 1 should be researched by the end of the turn.

As far as Orders go, unrest in Fenatice was eliminated, so I raise its taxation back to 100%. Meanwhile, I reduce Zimmria's taxation to 50% to cure unrest.

I move Karl and Rexor into C'tis in an attempt to preemptively knock out C'tis, as well as gain another Fort (however bad) to recruit from.

I pay 85g to rehire Rexor's Barbarians. This leaves me with not enough gold to hire a Fortuneteller, so I hire a Wolfherd and 4 Morningstar Infantry. The reason that I buy the Wolfherd, and not a mage/other commander, is because the Wolfherd is capital-only, and I plan to use the Wolves generated. This is reinforced by the fact that I'm looking at getting another fortress, which can serve as a factory for my Blood Mages.

Status Report:
Provinces: 3
Treasury: 4
Income: 229 (+33)
Upkeep: 51 (+11)
Gems: 5A,4S,12D,4N
Gem Income: +1S,+3D,+1N
Research: Alteration 2, (Thaumaturgy 1), (Construction 1)
Research Income: 39 of 39

Next turn, the Baron!

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Just a short update... I do intend to complete this AAR. I'm currently looking for my notes up to turn 7. When I do, I'll update to then, and then post one turn a day until I win or lose. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

edit: spelling

[ June 16, 2004, 00:32: Message edited by: Scott Hebert ]

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 5

Irma regarded the young-looking man before her. "Excuse me? You believe I have made an error?"

"Yes, my Queen. And as Castellan of your Keep..." The man trailed off. Of course, he was more than merely a man now. The new Castellan, who succumbed to the Malediction and fed on his father's corpse.

Irma continued to stare at him. "And this error I made was..?"

"My Lady, the Barbarians, while useful, were destined to be ground into dust facing C'tis's defenders. There was no need to pay the dead." His face seemed troubled, as if he was not sure of the wisdom of questioning his Queen's judgement.

Irma chuckled slightly. "Fear not, Baron Ulrich. You can be my advisor, until such time as you become unfit for service." Ulrich bowed his head in acknowledgement, and if Irma was not mistaken, relief. "Make ready a reinforcement column to send to C'tis, and find what mercenaries you can as well. I think the Serpent's Mausoleum will make a fitting summer cottage for me."

--

Abysia names Ba'al Chozron the Anathemant Warlock as their Prophet. Always a pleasure... :|

As noted in the story above, I successfully take out the PD in C'tis, but I lose all of Rexor's Barbarians but Rexor in the process. It would have been better to not pay for him again.

I give orders for Karl and Rexor to siege in C'tis. Nan Bagor moves in to reinforce the siege. Zierod (my new Wolfherd) takes the Rangers and the Wolves in Ulm and Sneaks to Zimmria. Ulrich meanwhile takes the Morningstar Infantry in Ulm and moves to Fenatice. Finally, Irma and her coven research.

For taxes, I increase taxes in Zimmria to 80%, and reduce taxes in C'tis to 50%.

I note that Dante's Stingers are available to hire, and so I pay 160g to hire them straight into C'tis. I also pay 102g for a Fortuneteller and a Ranger in Ulm.

Status:

Treasury: 7
Income: 284 (+55)
Upkeep: 57 (+6)
Gems: 5A/5S/15D/5N
GI: +1S/+3D/+3N
Research: 39/39 points, Construction 2 should be researched next turn.

Next update: Turn 6.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

I'd really love to see more of this, I dabbled in Black Forest for a while, because of the rangers. Accuracy AND axes in melee, wow! But I got trounced... repeatedly... by the AI.

Anyways, I wonder why you use Infants of Ulm instead of Zweihanders. Although rangers can fend for themselves in a melee, I'm sure Zweihanders' improved armor, and therefor tanking ability, makes them superior to Infantry of Ulm combined with the fact that your recruitable mortal commanders, the Commanders of Ulm (how imaginative) can only take 25 men apiece instead of the standard 50.

Aside from that, I also wonder how/when you're going to get a slave trade going. I'm a newbie to blood magic, and have only dabbled in it in one game with Diabolical Faith. What demons do you plan to summon, if you're not only using it to make Counts. How will you deal with only having your pretender to summon them?

I might've missed it from another post, but are you playing the AI or in Multiplayer?

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Rangers are nice, but they're not much different from the Arbalests of base Ulm. Well, they fire more rapidly, and are more accurate, but they're much worse in melee combat (due to lack of armor).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, I don't use the Zweihanders because 1) they're more resource-intensive than the infantry (IIRC), and 2) They don't have shields. Especially when you consider I'm firing crossbow bolts into melee after a while, you want shields on your tanks. The difference in survivability between Morningstar Infantry and Zweihanders is quite large. Point-by-point:

1) Zweihanders don't have shields, which means they're going to be taking damage from my own Rangers.
2) Zweihanders are easily hit, and while they better armor, defense is rather important.
3) Zweihanders actually have greater encumbrance, and therefore their endurance is less.
4) I can buy a Morningstar Infantry, a Ranger, and a mage for the same resource cost as a Zweihander. This is my limiting factor at present.
5) I seem to recall from SaberCherry's combat simulator that the Morningstar Infantry was generally better than 2-handed wpn. Infantry.

I have quite a few reasons why I'm using Morningstar Infantry. Points 1) and 4) I think are the most important.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, with a little help, the Counts can summon each other. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Irma can also summon the Ice Devils. I can probably also get her Blood high enough (through Vessel/Armor/Thorn/Artifact Book) to summon the Heliophagi. Time will tell with this.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm playing SP (that is, against the AI). If this wasn't totally after the action, I'd be kinda stupid to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Another small note. Everything up until turn 7 was done under 2.08. That means, before the missile fire rules were changed. If anything, this should make the Rangers more deadly.

Hope this helps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 6

Marignon names the Cardinal his Prophet. Would that make him Holy 6? Gotta keep him away from my Vampires...

I was able to hire Dante's Stingers, and I broke down the walls of the Mausoleum, so I order Dante, Karl, and Rexor to storm it. I don't see any provinces of C'tis's around here, so I'm hoping that if I win, C'tis will be eliminated.

Nan Bagor transfers his troops to Karl, and summons up wolves.

Zierod and his troops sneak to C'tis. (Another bonus of the Wolfherds... strategic move of 2, and can sneak with Rangers and Wolves.)

Ulrich and his Morningstar Infantry move to Zimmria.

Eata, my Astral/Blood Fortuneteller, moves to Fenatice to prepare for Bloodhunting.

Meanwhile, most of the rest of my coven switches over to forging items for Irma, since Construction 2 has been reached. Evita forges a Rawhide Shield, Irma forges herself a Horror Helm, and Coma forges a Pendant of Luck.

I note that the Farstrikers are up for hire. I've always considered them among the best mercenaries, and so I spend 165g in an attempt to hire them. This leaves me with 62g, which I use to buy another Wolfherd, and a single Ranger.

Taxes are moved to 70% in Zimmria and 80% in C'tis.

Status:

Treasury 0
Income 331 (+47)
Upkeep 64 (+7)
Gems: 5A1S13D1N
Research: 7/39, Conjuration 1

Turn 7, the Serpent's Fall, up next.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 7

"Your report, Castellan?"

Ulrich bowed before his Queen. "My Lady, fate has smiled upon us. The evil serpents of C'tis have been overthrown, and the secrets their Archmage leader had secreted in his Mausoleum are now ours."

"Most excellent. I now have a home away from home... although it does strike me..." Irma quirked her lips in what was almost a smile.

"Yes, Your Majesty? Do you need anything?"

Irma shook her head slightly. "A small lesson in statecraft, Baron Ulrich. As you recall, the Illuminated Society recently paid me a call, asking for a place they could carry out their plots and schemes. Naturally, I could not give them the Keep, but..."

Ulrich smiled as well. "Now you have another Fortification that they can occupy. They gain access to the Archmage's research..."

"And I gain access to perhaps the best cabal in the world." She rose from her throne. "Baron, send word to the Order and tell them they may have use of the Mausoleum. Eata should be able to carry my words to them. Now, if there is nothing else..." His small cough interrupted her. "Yes? Is there something else?"

"We have sighted the Spiders of Machaka on our northwest frontier, Great Lady."

"Ah... hopefully a worthier adversary than the snakes. Has my coven finished my accouterments yet?"

"They have, My Lady."

"Then I must give Machaka a proper welcome, now mustn't I?"

--

At the battle in C'tis, they had their Archmage (AAAADDDD and something else), a Shaman, and their Serpent Dancers. What they were missing was a Priest to bless them. Had they had one, the assault may have gone differently. In any event, not much to talk about there. About the scariest thing (NPI) was the Archmage's Terror spells.

But they died, and I lost few units.

I was able to purchase the Farstrikers.

Arcoscephale made a Strategos their Prophet. At least I know they're playing the base theme.

Machaka is 2 provinces away from Ulm to the NE. To be more specific, there are 2 provinces that are adjacent both to Ulm and their territory that I can see.

My battle plan for the moment is to try to swallow up as much territory between me and them as a buffer.

One attack squad, made up of Dante's Stingers, Arnaud's Farstrikers, and Ulrich's Morningstars, is attacking Zanthrast, a province cradled by C'tis, Zimmria, and Fenatice.

The second squad, made up of Karl's forces, attacks Akesta, above Zanthrast.

The third squad, Irma by herself, is attacking Cun Aral, the province between Machaka and Ulm that I have positive dominion in. She has the equipment I forged for her Last turn, with orders of (Quickness)/(Stoneskin)/(Earth Might)/Attack Rear. I am slightly concerned that she is going after Barbarians, who if they can get through the Ethereal/Luck combo, can do some serious damage.

My wolfherds (2 in C'tis and 1 in Ulm) all Summon Wolves.

Ulga, Evita, and Coma in Ulm all Research.

Eata moves to C'tis to Research/protect from bad events.

Taxes in Zimmria and C'tis are increased to 80% and 90% respectively.

In Ulm, a Fortuneteller and 4 Rangers are recruited.
In C'tis, a Member of the Second Tier is recruited.

Status:

Treasury 0
Income 386 (+56)
Upkeep 68 (+4)
Gems: 5A/2S/19D/4N
Gem Income: +1S/+6D/+3N (C'tis, booyah)
Research: 21 points, researching Enchantment 1

... and I've caught up to where I was a couple of months ago. (Don't worry. I haven't been playing.) From now on, it's 2.12 (albeit with a VQ that is illegal under 2.12).

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

This thread has been added to the AAR Thread. Good job Scott.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Thanks, Zen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif From now on, I hope to do (and report) a turn a day until the game is over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

More questions about playing Black Forest

Why buy Farstrikers? If I remember right\ it's a captain and 30 shortbowmen with, I believe ringmail cuirasses for around 130 gold. Shortbows aren't amazing, and Machaka has plenty of heavy armor to make them go crying for their respective mamas (who I'm sure are all saints http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ).

Do you pay upkeep for wolves? If so, how much?

If I read the roleplay part of the report right, you intend to make researchers in the mausoleum as well as your capital.

Also, from the roleplay part, it looks like you mean that Irma and Ulrich are sitting on their fat asses in Ulm, eating chocolate and the occasional child/virgin. Is it for some kind of master plan?

How did/will you deal with Machaka? If I were you, I would've kept the Farstrikers around to deal with Warriors, Militia, Spider Riders, and their own Archers. I would also employ masses of Rangers gunning for the closest enemy in case they have Knights or Hunters. For hoplites, I would also have a small diVersionary force of Infantry of Ulm to fend off Warriors and Militia until they route, if they're present along with hoplites. Once the hoplites are at the front, my rangers can cut them down with relatively close range fire. How will you fight Machaka archers after the Strikers have died or left, though? That I want to know.

Are you compromising your fighting forces by creating a research team?

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Farstrikers are longbowmen, not shortbowmen, and I think they might have an extra point of precision or two. In any case they are a lot better than your average independent archers.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

nice aar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
it has awakened my interest for BF ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
but a question which frightens me a bit to play them myself :
the inland map with 154 provinces is quite big already though i love the orania map with 260 or so provinces with every player and highest research costs .
at which turn are you at the moment ?
but i guess you will need at least 100-150 turns or so . now my problem : you have to take death 1 :
although you only lose 0.2 % per turn you lose them . it is very slow but constant . if nothing else happens and i did calculate it right : at turn 100 your 30k capitol population should have dropped to 24557 . that is not so bad at all .
but with blood hunting you should get unrest and if you patrol lose your population quite quickly . and there are many bad events / spells which further decrease population .
so with positive growth it is not much but at least your population has the ability to slowly regrow.
so if you are some time (10-20) turns in a state where you can't expand and fight much i fear that you come in a blood shortage and you can't hope it will ever become better because of death 1 .
how far did you already play and how long do you think your game Lasts roughly estimated in turns ? plz tell me if you had any blood hunting problems then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif and how do you plan to bloodhunt ? masshunt in a few provinces with opressing unrest through partrols or perhaps 1 blood hunter in almost every province and taxes reduced to 50-80% to keep unrest low without patrolling ?
cause in my first big own game as abysia i took growth 3 and are at turn 80 but i don't know really why now my unrest is increasing quickly and my 12 provinces where i bloodhunt get slowly depopulated and my blood income drops slowly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First, as Sheap said, these are longbowmen, which are far better than shortbowmen. Second, while Machaka has a lot of heavy armor, their archers are VERY vulnerable to counter battery fire. As you point out later, my Rangers will do quite well against Machakan armor, and so I'm going to want archers to counter the Machakan archers. Besides, I find the Farstrikers the best investment of any merc.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">According to my brother Wyatt, Wolves are free. If they aren't, then they are probably like slaves, which have a gold cost of 1, for an upkeep of 1/15.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Slight correction. My capital will be making my Fortunetellers and my Wolfherds (which depends on money), while the Mausoleum will be making Members of the Second Tier for Bloodhunting.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The story is just that: a story. While it does give direction to the game, it's not the main part. If you notice in my troop movements, Ulrich is leading troops in battle, while Irma is starting to take provinces.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As I've said, I am now 'in present time', as it were, and I plan to do one turn a day. I plan to host to turn 8 and have a write-up in the next 4 hours.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">See above. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If I want to deal with them, I would set to 'fire cavalry' or 'large monsters', just so they don't get confused. Probably large monsters, since after the riders die, I don't know if they're classified as 'cavalry' anymore.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a hard time seeing Ulmish infantry as 'diVersionary'. I plan to have a center line/block of Ulmish infantry whose job is to hold that line until my Rangers/other archers defeat the enemy.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I highly doubt that the Farstrikers will ever die or leave my service. However, in that event, Wolves are my best fast flankers, and especially against archers with no armor, will really rip them up.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't feel I am. More than researchers right now, I need Blood hunters to get my first Blood Count. I'll be switching over to Construction this turn to get to 4 ASAP for SDRs, and the Death/Blood path-enhancing items.

Early-game, mercs are your way of enhancing your forces while maintaining decent mage production.

Thanks for the questions, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It helps to clarify everything and enhances the AAR.

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm about to do turn 8, as soon as people stop posting in this thread! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (this is a joke)

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, the mandatory Death-1 hurts BF Ulm, since it is a Blood nation. I find it to be the main reason I don't play them more. I'll cover more below, but I'd like to point out that the Fortunetellers can negate bad events, and if you put them in your high-income provinces, it helps.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think that will happen, honestly. While I wouldn't call myself a 'good player', I don't think that, properly and cautiously played, the computer is going to give me that much of a problem. Yes, C'tis was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (with the wrong Fort, and the wrong Pretender). Part of the reason I took the VQ was to break that kind of stalemate.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I expect the game to run as long as it takes for me to be the obvious and clear winner. How that is defined is different for every person, I would expect.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Generally, I follow one of two strategies when I'm bloodhunting. The first is to put 2 Bloodhunters in a province that's as close to 5K as possible, turn the taxes down to 0, and let them hunt. If they are Blood-2 mages (whether innate or 1 with a SDR), they generally don't cause any unrest to accumulate. The second is to use Norfleet's numbers to stifle unrest by patrolling (he has 65 slaves stops the unrest from two Blood-2 mages). Now, for BF Ulm, you'd use the Thralls auto-generated by the Blood Counts instead of Slaves, but the theory is sound. I don't know if this way is feasible with the Death scale, though.

At this point, I'm looking at doing it the first way until I get my first Blood Count, and then judge from then on.

Hope this helps. Another hope: I get the Blood Marshal or the Member of the Third Tier soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 8

--

Short form: All battles won, no casualties taken. Always a good thing.

Rexor's Barbarians leave to try to get rehired (with 1 barbarian, I hope someone does). Black Bones's Pirates are available to hire.

Albrecht, the Member of the Second Tier, joins me in C'tis, and Sethenana, an SD Fortuneteller, joins me in Ulm.

Akesta has an Arena.

To deal with unrest, Cun Aral has its taxes set to 50%, Zanthrast to 60%, and Akesta to 40%. This should eliminate unrest so that taxation can return to normal levels next turn.

Unit Orders:

Albrecht Sneaks to Zimmria (at 6.7k, my best Bloodhunting province to start).
Karl moves to attack Bitra.
Dante and Arnaud move to attack Frygia.
Irma moves to attack Dothian (the other province between me and the Machaka province; I have Dominion there now).
Sethenana is commanded to Research.
Ulrich is reanimating Soulless in Zanthrast.
Evita (my SN Fortuneteller) Forges an Ivy Crown.

Purchase Orders:

I spend 85g to rehire Dante's Stingers (22 men left).
I spend 90g to hire a Fortuneteller in Ulm.
I spend 160g to hire a Member of the Second Tier in C'tis.
I spend 30g to hire a Commander in Fenatice (it will take 2 turns).
I spend 10g to hire a Morningstar Infantry in C'tis.

Research:

My research is currently focused on Construction to get up to 4 ASAP. My research levels are currently:

Conjuration 1
Alteration 2
Construction 2
Enchantment 1
Thaumaturgy 1

Status:

Treasury: 0
Income: 454 (+68)
Upkeep: 88 (+20)
Gems: 5A/3S/25D/2N
Gem Income: +1S/+6D/+3N

Questions, comments, suggestions, feel free to post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

"I have a hard time seeing Ulmish infantry as 'diVersionary'. I plan to have a center line/block of Ulmish infantry whose job is to hold that line until my Rangers/other archers defeat the enemy."

Isn't that being a diVersion? Just a big diVersion.

It seems to me like you're using mercs and mages extensively instead of normal national troops. I wonder what would happen if you lost just one battle with the mercenaries. That's why I tend to not be in favor of hiring mercs. Would I be correct to assume that you're toast if your merc army routes one time?

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I see it as more of a wall. Slaves are a diVersion.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">At this point, if I want to have any research at all, I need mages. The Mercs are cheaper than what I can get otherwise (and in numbers I just can't match), so I get them instead of hiring 'normal' troops. What would you be doing different?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not particularly. First, the chances my mercs will rout is minimal, considering that I currently have 22 HI and 30 Longbowmen (my mercs) going up against 20 Militia and LI. If you don't use them effectively, of course you're not spending your money wisely.

And, even if I did lose them, I still have my 'main' army with Karl, which is very low-upkeep and very good at taking out Independent provinces. I also have my SC VQ. So no, I don't think I'd be hurt that much at all.

Do you have any other questions I can answer? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: "Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)
 

Turn 9

--

Tien Chi names a Khan his prophet. I believe this means he's playing the Barbarian theme.

I gain 1 Nature gem from a Cursing Witch event.

In Bitra, I take no casualties.
In Frygia, I take one HI casualty.
In Dothian, my VQ takes out HC.

Taxes:
Cun Aral, Zanthrast, and Akesta all go back up to 100%.
Dothian goes down to 30%.
Frygia goes down to 40%.
Bitra goes down to 60%.
Zimmria goes down to 50%. (This is in anticipation of Bloodhunting.)

Unit Orders:

Albrecht starts to Blood Hunt in Zimmria.

Aistulf (my new Second Tierer) Sneaks to Zimmria.

Meliath (SB Fortuneteller) Researches in Ulm.

Evita begins a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Men after donning the Crown she made. (These I consider more of a distraction.)

Irma moves to attack Waywoods, on the other side of the capital. Having taken Dothian, I note Caelum occupies the province SE of Dothian and S of Machaka's province.

Ulrich builds a Temple in Zanthrast. (Rather impressed he could. I do so here because it's surrounded by my own provinces and I can build Priests here and not necessarily in the capital.)

Dante and Arnaud move to attack The Woodlands.

Karl moves to attack Wicker Woods.

Purchase Orders
Spend 90g to rehire the Farstrikers.
Spend 200g to build a temple in Zanthrast.
Spend 90g to hire a Fortuneteller.
Spend 22g to hire a Morningstar Infantry and a Ranger in C'tis.

Research
No real change from previous, up to 32 RPs, still researching Construction

Status:
Treasury 2
Income 532 (+78)
Upkeep 106 (+18)
Gems 5A/4S/31D/5N
Gem Income: +1S/+6D/+3N

Comments welcome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif