OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

While trying out the new patch, I was very unpleasantly surprised when while trying to play a SINGLE PLAYER test game, with only myself and an AI opponent, I was unpleasantly jerked to the desktop with a security alert! Dominions II was trying to phone home, and my firewall had intercepted a suspicious request.

What on earth is 82.182.97.69 30729?

I cannot identify this port or protocol. Reverse-DNS identifies this IP as "1-1-2-16a.msp.mlm.bostream.se".

Has somebody managed to slip some sort of odd spyware trojan into the new Dom2 patch?

[ April 10, 2004, 03:44: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

That is home.

Totally guesswork but I suspect that the "CD keys are only checked in multiplayer games" might be getting tackled. Along with a way to update the list of CD keys that are Banned. Or maybe the list got too long to include inside the game so now it checks it at home.

[ April 07, 2004, 16:04: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

So it's ILLWINTER'S Spyware, phoning home. How evil. What little faith I had in them is now destroyed. It saddens me to see them resort to spyware tactics, phoning home with all of the information about your computer. I have no idea what's in these mystery packets, but given the surreptitious nature of such an inclusion, it is obviously a Bad Thing. No software on MY computer phones home. Period.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Hmm. The more odd thing is that it doesn't happen consistently: It doesn't occur every time you try to play. Some people are unable to get it to occur at all, and it doesn't happen in every game, network or SP.

Maybe it's an update checker? I'm trying to be generous and hoping that Illwinter did not, in fact, include something so obviously malware as something that phones home every time you try to play, allowing them to track your playing habits and computer data, and that this is something more benign, like an update-checker...maybe.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Is there an official statement on this matter, or only guilty silence?

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Small question here, since I really dont understand what all of this means: How can a game make your computer call "home", and what does that mean? I mean, will it make my modem dial something and then transfer information even if I dont want that to be?

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Would the nature of this spyware be a tracking cookie? Kind of illiterate on spyware. If not then the ad-aware spyware remover I just ran only found tracking cookies and I removed them. There were seven of them.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

No, tracking cookies are not the only thing: The program appears to call home (according to Gandalf, that's an Illwinter server), on a nonstandard port, and sends unknown data. Normal Spyware/Adware removal programs won't detect this behavior, since it occurs inside of a normal (and new) program.

Basically, this little added feature has the ability to do all of that, and your spyware checkers will not be able to detect it right now, and probably never, because it's unlikely that this will be added to their detection profiles.

However, I have no idea why this program would suddenly phone home in a change not mentioned in the patch update, so I can only assume that it is no good. Otherwise, they would have told us about it.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

And the behaviour if it is unable to phone home is...?

not everyone has an always-on connection.. And some of us like to black-hole route things that try to phone home.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Like me, yes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I black-hole anything that tries to use the Internet without permission as a general rule.

The behavior that occurs when unable to phone home is, as far as I can tell, absolutely nothing.

What I don't know is what the behavior for being ABLE to phone home is, given that I will not allow such a thing! If anyone can tell me what THAT is, I'd be curious.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not all programs that contact the home site are automatically considered spyware so you dont even know if it will EVER be included in the spyware-killer programs list. Nor do you know what data is being sent. So saying "with all of the information about your computer" as you did in another post is abit inflammatory. If its only the CD registration key then its not that uncommon.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">???? Since when have they ever told us the measures used in pirate protection. And who ever has for that matter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If its information gathering such as getting a feel for what mods and maps are popular then Id expect them to have made it voluntary but if its pirate protection then I wouldnt expect it be to voluntary.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Gandalf is right. It's a multiplayer CD-key check. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When in doubt, it's always the worst case scenario. This rule has kept me alive over the years where those who haven't have died because of misunderestimation. I'm not about to give it up now, and I suggest you take it up. When it comes to these things, if the capability to do it exists, it's already been done. I'd hardly believe Illwinter is stupid and doesn't realize the power of this, so it's safe to figure that they know.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's merely what you'd LIKE us to believe. You don't really think I'm that gullible, do you? No, I think there's something you're not telling us. Of course, you're not GOING to, since it's your little precious secret, but I'm going to rout it into /dev/null anyway. ET doesn't phone home on my watch.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When in doubt, it's always the worst case scenario. This rule has kept me alive over the years where those who haven't have died because of misunderestimation. I'm not about to give it up now, and I suggest you take it up. When it comes to these things, if the capability to do it exists, it's already been done. I'd hardly believe Illwinter is stupid and doesn't realize the power of this, so it's safe to figure that they know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are many things in life in which we are not interested, one of the things we are least interested in of all are your computer habits, barring your possible use of cracked copies of dom 2.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's merely what you'd LIKE us to believe. You don't really think I'm that gullible, do you? No, I think there's something you're not telling us. Of course, you're not GOING to, since it's your little precious secret, but I'm going to rout it into /dev/null anyway. ET doesn't phone home on my watch. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We have regular lives, stalking and spying on you is not something we are remotely interested in. Other games like Kohan and various blizzard games have similar measures.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

This rule has kept me alive over the years where those who haven't have died because of misunderestimation.

Misunderestimation? Doesn't that take it right back to a correct estimation or perhaps an accidental overestimation?

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means. (I don't even think it exists, to be honest, but hey.)

*shrug* Somehow, giving IW this sort of access doesn't exactly have me shaking at the knees. And, really, would an easily notable phone-home be their best route if they wanted to wreak havoc on your system? I mean, as it is, you're giving them a great deal of access just by installing the patches.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's merely what you'd LIKE us to believe. You don't really think I'm that gullible, do you? No, I think there's something you're not telling us. Of course, you're not GOING to, since it's your little precious secret, but I'm going to rout it into /dev/null anyway. ET doesn't phone home on my watch. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So check the packet size. It shouldnt be hard to tell if its sending more than a key or more often than it needs to.

As far as blocking all programs contacting outward from your machine thats rather what I would have expected of you and various others here. I also tend to do more sniffing of my network traffic than most. But I dont think the average user is going to have a problem with just one more piracy protection. (and an effort to generate a coup would probably need to be in a newsgroup or something now that the answer has been given.)

[ April 07, 2004, 17:52: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Well, I guess I'm okay with the protection program as long as it doesn't corrupt my porn files! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

What bothers me though is the timing.

Dominions 2 is selling well.

And I might be a bit naive, but IMHO people who are capable to appreciate this game don't use cracks because they don't want to hurt Illwinter.

[ April 07, 2004, 20:18: Message edited by: PrinzMegaherz ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Popularity has its pros and cons. The more popular something is, the more people are trying to crack it.

I wasnt thrilled with the cost jump from Dom1 to Dom2 but since I have paid it I have no problem with Illwinter taking steps to make sure that only people willing to pay for the game are able to play with me. From my experience, those who got it for nothing are people I wont miss if they fall out of the Dom2 community.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually there has been less piracy problems than we expected. Of course there are piracy, but I think you are right. We humbly thank you all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

So if someone installs Dom II both at work and at home, are they suddenly going to not be able to play? How about if they are goofing off at work, and their wife or kid starts playing on the installation at home at the same time?

What are the rules for authorized use of one copy of the game?

PvK

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

I think it gets flagged if Dom finds it playing with itself (boy that sounds bad) same CD-key from different computers.

But servers dont check (obviously or I couldnt play in a game Im hosting) which lets me have a copy on my linux for hosting and a copy on windows for playing without it being considered illegal.

[ April 07, 2004, 21:53: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

hmm, well I play from two different machines (since I spend half the week one place and half at another) w/out any problems.

I don't know why it would be "phoning in" a copy-protect scheme while in single-player, but it doesn't sound like spyware.

frankly, I believe the devs.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm pretty sure we all do (At least I assume norfleet's Last post was sarcasm).

I'm just a privacy freak and object on basic principle.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Over the years I have become very, very skeptical about any such claims. In my years of life, I have seen such information collection strategies become increasingly more invasive and pervasive. Just look at the web: In the old days, you could go just about anywhere, and nobody would ask you to register for something. Nowadays, you can barely even LOOK at a forum without having to register. Sure, registration is free, but they're still trying harder and harder to pry your personal data out of you, and we've had the development of spyware: Software that phones home all of your personal data you may leave lying around on your computer by stealth.

Now we have games and other programs starting to adopt this tactic. I find this a very distressing trend. Illwinter MIGHT be telling the truth, but this is inconsistent with known behaviors. I am certain I am not the only one who has considered the implications of this, and Illwinter is far from stupid: They know, and they can do it. As far as I'm concerned, can is will, and will is has. If it can be done, it already HAS been done. Do you really believe that this is the end of this? I think it has only just begun.

The line must be drawn here. Say NO to spyware in all its forms.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you might be cheating in every game you host. Since you can do it, you must have already done it. There's such a thing as paranoia, and you suffer from it greatly.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Then you must be a murderer, since you certainly "can" kill someone.

Why don't you try and not suffer from paranoid delusions so much.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Norfleet, I respect you greatly for your contributions here. However, I seriously do think you are overreacting to all of this. If you honestly believe everything you've posted in this thread, I'm amazed you allow yourself to be Online at all.

What you've said here smacks of paranoia and conspiracy theory, and to accuse a game company of it is rather humorous, I must say.

From your 'line in the sand' comment, I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) that you checked as Gandalf suggested, and probably found out that it is only a CD key. My sole concern in all of this is that it activated, as you said, on a single-player game. That could be a simple coding bug, though. I mean, we had Abysian Jotuns Last patch because of it, right?

Bottom line is, if you want to black-hole the data, I guess that's your choice. If it doesn't hurt to do it, I can think of few reasons not to do it. However, think about this. Illwinter has a right (and, in fact, a responsibility) to protect its software from piracy. Given the nature of the game, the easiest and most cost-effective method for Illwinter is to have the computers check against a server. The only real alternative is to set up dedicated servers to run MP games, and ONLY allow MP games to be played on those servers. I think, when all is said and done, Illwinter went for the best and least-intrusive method possible, within their means.

Bayushi Tasogare

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Norfleet you are clearly a highly intelligent individual. The philosophy you are illustrating above plainly shows why you are an excellent wargamer, but it may be lacking in some other, more social, respects.

I have no reason to 'suspect' Illwinter for anything other than trying to protect their IP in the most innocuous manner that such a small company possibly can.

[ April 08, 2004, 01:44: Message edited by: Demosthenes ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

I spend alot of my time in the alt.hacker newsgroup (white hats). To some people, anything which "reports home" is spyware. Ive heard people who rant and race about Windows Update, or WinXP's registration to turn it on. To them there is never a good reason for such things.

While I agree that such things can be abused, and that abuses tend to shut down good things, Im not going to toss the good with the bad. There are ways to protect yourself from the overzealous without killing everything. Im all for anything that helps get Illwinter their fair share and improve the chances of a Dom3.

[ April 08, 2004, 01:54: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have not checked if it contains any MORE, but I did get an AWFUL lot of hits, some several kbs transmitted. That's far larger than the "CDkey" is. Also, I firmly suspect that CDkeys are actually individually identifiable tracking numbers: It's obvious, based on the distribution scheme of the game. Shrapnel probably has every CDkey leaving the shipping bay tracked to the individual buying it. To allow it to be correlated Online by the same source that sent them out would be suicide.

NWN and Bioware tried to pull this exact same stunt on me, although they did a better job trying to make it seem harmless. However, when I confronted them with this, their obvious and blatant denials immediately confirmed the truth of my suspicions....and unlike IW, they are definitely possessed with motive, being that they are a puppet of the evil Infogrames.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm absolutely sure that they may very well be trying to do so. I've done my share of programming, and you know what? The Last time I wired a "protection" method to protect *MY* IP, it was designed exactly like that, a nice phone-home verification check....and would destroy all of the files of any unauthorized user and hand over control of their shells to me if I pressed the big red button.

So I've been on their side of the fence before. I know what they're trying to do.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am very much surrounded by potentially hostile people. Why do you think I've taken to the life of a hermit, wear kevlar, and travel heavily armed? It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.

[ April 08, 2004, 02:04: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Then we know who will have the most problem with it. Pirates or Purists, but not the average user.
That would make it a winning method from the view of the publishers.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you might be cheating in every game you host. Since you can do it, you must have already done it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey! This would explain why he keeps kicking my furry arse when he hosts! And how he can afford fortresses everywhere, sometimes 3 in the same province, one on top of another! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Say - speaking of fortresses on top of another, what happens if a fortress is built in a province that turns out to contain a magic site fortress (River Fortress for example, or Firbolg Fortress)?

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Suicide? Looks like more of your paranoid delusions .

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you are confirming that you are paranoid.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, you don't know what they are trying to do. You have paranoid delusions that everyone is out to get you.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bull****.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because you're paranoid.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for confirming that you are just being paranoid.

I missed this the first time:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's nice to see that you are willing to destoy the property of others on a whim, and aren't at all concerned about whether your behaviour is illegal.

[ April 08, 2004, 02:20: Message edited by: Graeme Dice ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would say that he has demonstrated little intelligence. Using a clear logical fallacy as an argument only shows that he lacks the ability to think.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you might be cheating in every game you host. Since you can do it, you must have already done it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey! This would explain why he keeps kicking my furry arse when he hosts! And how he can afford fortresses everywhere, sometimes 3 in the same province, one on top of another! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Say - speaking of fortresses on top of another, what happens if a fortress is built in a province that turns out to contain a magic site fortress (River Fortress for example, or Firbolg Fortress)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Off topic - Cainehill, we are starting new game now, Karan map, 6 players, could use 1 or two more. Are you interested? If so, log on dominions IRC chaneel quickly pls.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Although I can't imagine what information Illwinter would want from my computer *that I would care about*...I definitely think it is a good thing when someone out there keeps people informed so they can make their own choices about what might be harmful and what might not. I don't necessarily agree or care and I might even call it an extreme point of view, but it's still positive in a 'checks and balances' kind of way.

- Kel

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Just to clear things up.

Single player is not affected by this issue at all. Using the same code on different computers is not affected at all. There is no remote control trash your computer function hidden in the game, including one such would probably be illegal. Álso the game does not send several kb's of info, just a few bytes, we have no desire to bog down our less than impressive line with bloated data packages from anonymous dom 2 players.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Graeme Dice, why are you attacking Norfleet with Posts? to me, it makes sense that he is trying to figure this dilemma out.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm attacking him because he's not trying to figure out. He's already made up his mind that the world is out to get him.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Norfleet,

I have found your Posts to be quite helpful in the past. You have demonstrated an excellent grasp of the game and I have appreciated your gaming wisdom.

I feel very sorry for you. Your existence must be lonely and filled with the constant perception of danger. I sense isolation, mistrust, and fear in your postings in this thread. It saddens me for your sake.

I may be a naive and trusting fool, but I have found Johan Osterman and Kristoffer O to be reliable sources of information in the past. I tend to trust folks who have proven themselves trustworthy in the past and distrust people who have proven themselves to be untrustworthy. That's my paradigm and it leads me to feel secure, happy, connected, and unafraid. Yes, occasionally I may be hurt when someone I trusted betrays me, but I survive... and I enjoy life. You may be safe and protected on your island of mistrust and persectory delusion, but at what cost? Your paradigm of "If they can hurt me, they will hurt me" stems from a sense that you are too fragile to bear the hurt.

Rather than having the ultimate defenses and being completely "safe," why not strive to be resilient enough that you would allow yourself to take reasonable risks? Allow yourself to be vulnerable if the benefits outweigh the risk. For example, I might find someone attractive and want to approach them, but I fear they might reject me. With your worldview, I never introduce myself. If I open myself to that person, I could get hurt or betrayed. Much better to stay where I am, safe and alone... I urge your to instead embrace life and take reasonable, calculated risks. You may get hurt, get your heart broken or even lose some privacy from time to time, but the rewards far outweigh risks.

I hope you can hear and understand the wisdom I try to give you.

With Great Respect,

Inigo

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

Graeme Dice: you should be a lawyer, you could disprove character quick

where were you when OJ was in trail?

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't host. I arrange hosting with a third party. I'm mildly concerned with the consequences of leaving a funny app running constantly where everyone knows about it. Somebody else's computer is much safer and more expendable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You keep your built fortress. The magic site fortress only appears if you did not have a previously existing fortress.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is paradoxically the case that the untrustworthy are safer than those you feel are trustworthy. The untrustworthy have demonstrated their untrustworthiness to you already, whereas those who appear trustworthy may simply be attempting to gain your trust so as to better betray you in the future. Knowing the motivations behind somebody's allegiance is always better, of course, but I favor the devil I know over the devil I do not.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I find that I'm usually the one doing the rejecting, being that I am a man of exacting standards, but I see the point. Nonetheless, you should always wear body armor.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">An Arab proverb states, "Trust in Allah, but tie your camel." I tried experimenting with that advice once. Just to be on the safe side, I wore body armor. It paid off in very nicely when he proceeded to shoot me in the back. As the saying goes, it is better to be perpetually suspicious than occasionally cheated.

[ April 08, 2004, 05:03: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

[quote]Originally posted by Norfleet:

Quote:

It is paradoxically the case that the untrustworthy are safer than those you feel are trustworthy. The untrustworthy have demonstrated their untrustworthiness to you already, whereas those who appear trustworthy may simply be attempting to gain your trust so as to better betray you in the future. Knowing the motivations behind somebody's allegiance is always better, of course, but I favor the devil I know over the devil I do not.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I disagree. Let's say I'm thinking of leaving my child with a babysitter for the night. You would select the pedophile with the known track record for being untrustworthy with children because you know his motivations are to molest your child. I, on the other hand, would select my mother. You are certainly right, my mother could have been waiting all these years pretending to love me, but secretly harbouring devious motivations. But when I weigh the risks, the individual who has proven himself to be untrustworthy is not as you put it, "safer." You can leave your child with the pedophile, but I don't see how you think you are safer doing so.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Certainly he is. You know for certain he is a pedophile, so you absolutely do not leave your children with him. His state is known to you. Somebody else, on the other hand, COULD be a pedophile, but you do not KNOW this. His known untrustworthiness allows you to react appropriately with an informed decision. Knowledge of his motivations, furthermore, allows you to manipulate him using these motivations. A "trustworthy" individual whose motives are less well known is much harder to control.

[ April 08, 2004, 05:25: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

There is no need to get personal or drag pedophilia into a discussion. The question was posed, in however ungainly a manner and it was answered and cleared. I hope anyone who reads through this thread at least gets the facts straight.

No Illwinter is not using Spyware, they are using a tracking system for Multiplayer games to prevent piracy. They have every right and should use every measure they have at their disposal to combat it as it is their product that is being pirated, not yours. (though it may well be if you let your CD-Key slip). If you are playing SP there is no reason to worry about any sort of tracking measures.

Whatever your personal feelings of internet or life paranoia, tracking, piracy, should be, could be, would be, please don't try to drag IW's protection of their property into that perception.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, those who would take what is mine have it coming. It is better to destroy everything you own than allow it to be taken from you by the enemy.

Re: OT: SPYWARE/TROJAN and Off Topic!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, those who would take what is mine have it coming. It is better to destroy everything you own than allow it to be taken from you by the enemy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You might want to make sure that your statements apply to the things you are talking about. There's a world of difference between destroying things you own, and destroying things other people own, which is illegal and immoral. Excuse me if I don't have much respect for someone who's admitted that they don't respect the property of others.