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Scout Bloodhunting Nerf - New Numbers?
Scout hunting was apparently nerfed in 2.11, according to the patch notes, as non-blood mages are now worse at hunting for blood slaves.
How much worse? Saber, could you maybe run the numbers again? |
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(bump)
Anyone checked this out yet? By the way, add --scoredump to your Illwinter icon. Thats a SWEET html it creates. I think I might like it as real numbers more than the moving line thing |
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Yes, I would liek to know it as well. In both of my current games I am playing blood-capable races (Abyssia and Jotuns) but using scouts for bloodhunting since it is more economical. I would like to know if it is time to change my hunting habbits.
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I'm guessing they're now half as effective..
so, yah, time to change over to real bloodhunters. Use those scouts for what they were intended - pack mules. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [ April 08, 2004, 17:06: Message edited by: archaeolept ] |
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Fortunately the *base* chance for blood mages is still 20% (+20% for each level in blood, I've not tested the SDR). After 200 hunts with scouts I've got 19 hits and 82 slaves. After 200 hunts with Blood 1 mages I've got 82 hits and 455 slaves... Cheers |
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My tests were based on provinces with 8,000 to 12,000 pop. Slave Hunt in larger provinces or in the capital seems too dangerous (possible unrest burst) and too expensive (gold loss). In another previous test on a 5,000 pop province I've seen that my hunters were slightly less successful (about -20% slaves). But my test was limited on this point. Unrest above 50 seems to make slave hunt harder, and much harder above 100. Cheers |
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So, if we go by Saber Cherry's previous numbers, it now takes 8 scouts to be as effective as a single blood 1 mage with a SDR. Looks like that just about evens out the costs for most of the blood mages out there so that they are the most effective hunters.
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And the upkeep cost of most blood mages is halved since they are sacred (Warlock Apprentice, Pandemoniacs and Hags are an exception). Cheers |
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So let's say you are playing Abyssia and using warlock apprentice (blood2 mage) for bloodhunting. How many mages (with rods) you should have per one 8K-12K province? 1? 2?
Up until now I was using 7-8 scouts per province for bloodhunting (even with blood nations) - that would allow me to have zero tax and close to zero unrest without patrolling. I don'tlike patrolling my blodhunting sites, since it kills a lot of people and patrols cost money to maintain. Is it efficient tactic or do most people patrol their bloodhunting provinces? If so how heavely? |
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I dont like patrolling because it will kill of the popultion of the province.
In my experience, 2 warlock apprentices with sdr in a ~10k province with 0 tax is optimum: They get 15-20 slaves a turn and unrest stays at 0. One good thing is that the income is very constant, also, the population drop is minimal and easily counterable by growth. Also note that high dominion lowers unrest, so bloodhuntsites should have a temple. This can easily be used for blood sacrifice for abysia and mictlan to lift dominion to max very fast to minimize unrest. At higher dom levels a province can support more hunters. Also, the blood-1 priest the blood of humans theme has seems very good for hunting with sdr: at price 100 and holy it is very cheap to maintain and it gets decent amount of slaves. |
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IIRC the new numbers are:
10 + (40 x blood) % Numbers found are as before I believe. |
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How does the size of the population enter the equation?
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No idea. JK might know.
Edit: JK's still on vacation so I made a check in the code. Basically: if 1d100 less than (10 + 40xblood) and 1d5000 less than population and 1d400 less than unrest effect is d6(oe)+blood Thus lvl 2 blood mages are probably the best deal. [ April 12, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ] |
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- Kel |
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Population should be "more than" also.
Does that mean there's no difference between blood hunting a 5001 population province and a 20,000 population province? |
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It's still interesting that size of province has no bearing on number of slaves in that formula. If that's correct I guess I'll start hunting in smaller provinces from now on. |
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You said the Level 2 Blood Hunter was the best deal, but wouldn't the best be a Level 1 Blood Hunter with a Sanguine Dousing Rod? Does the Sanguine Dousing Rod's +2 to blood hunting help for the effect, i.e. number of blood slaves, or does it only help for the % chance to find slaves? Thanks so much!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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It's still interesting that size of province has no bearing on number of slaves in that formula. If that's correct I guess I'll start hunting in smaller provinces from now on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually Yossar was partly correct. According to this formula _there is_ no difference between 5001 and 20000 province. That's strange. |
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- Kel </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It means that you have Unrest/400 chance of blowing it and find no slave... Rationale is that unrest in provinces makes hunting harder. Looks like best hunt situation is a Blood1 mage + SDR in a low unrest 5-7k pop province http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Success near guaranteed, avg 6+ slaves/turn OTOH a non-blood hunter (scout..) only has 10% of finding 3+ slaves, that's a 0.3 average. |
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is the SDR still counting as +2 levels for a blood mage?
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SDR +1 (since 2.06 or something).
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IIRC, there's even a message you can get while blood hunting in high unrest provinces that says "the hunting has become difficult and dangerous"... but it isn't true. Nobody fights back. But it's probably a little late to introduce this without throwing off blood hunting balance. Maybe for Dominions 3. |
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I'm not sure if it's just changed recently but this thread is proving everything I've ever read about blood hunting wrong. SDR is only +1 and the ideal province is size 5000-6000. Interesting.
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- Kel </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It means that you have Unrest/400 chance of blowing it and find no slave... Rationale is that unrest in provinces makes hunting harder. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ahm, if you get slaves when [other conditions] and 1d400 is less than unrest, than you would want 401+ unrest, no ? - Kel [ April 13, 2004, 22:40: Message edited by: Kel ] |
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TIA |
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TIA </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok maybe I have missed it, but what is the formula for how much unrest the bloodutning cause? Is it alos indep of the province size (once province population is larger than 5000)? And it looks like I have been wasting a lot of money in my bloodhunting efforts, simce I always tried to hunt in 8K-10K provinces, while the ideal one is around 6K. Oh well, good to know it nevertheless. |
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(OK, we've been discussing sacrificing virgin girls to summon demons for months, and still no crazies have showed up requiring this board be closed down; maybe if we mentions the slaves are most likely young children in addition, we'll have better luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ) |
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Remember, these people worship you. That strange-looking dude with the stick is a servant of the living god... |
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http://www.freewebs.com/sunraybe/blood.html The unrest is quite random... 3 points on average +1/slave found. Cheers |
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TIA </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't think so. |
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Remember, these people worship you. That strange-looking dude with the stick is a servant of the living god... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They don't necessarily worship you - you can hunt outside your dominion. But you're right up to a point - if this type of event is ever introduced, it should be less likely if your God has strong dominion in that province. And if you want crazy people to show up here, I suggest casting Imprint Souls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif What's the province number for this board? |
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Anyway, wouldn't it be nice to make a sticky listing threads like this, that is, more or less definitive explanations of specific gameplay mechanics. It would sure be a great help to newbies. |
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