If you could create a unit...
 

Lately, I've noticed that unit diversity in Dominions is kinda weak. You've got plenty of different men to hire, but each seems to be an improved/downgraded Version of another. I just played a game as Abysia and it was boring as hell! (actually, hell's probably not a boring place, you've got your fire, brimstone, wailing souls, CEOs, and pitchforking imps.) The only thing available in the way of units were Heavy Infantry (True, there are many types, but they all overlap), light infantry, and Salamanders. Atlantis also lacked variety, with Atlantian infantry, overgrown Atlantian infantry and War Lobsters who can't even go up on dry land. That's essentially tramplers and infantry. Don't get me started on Mictlan.

So, (not that I expect anything here to make it into the game) if you could design a unit (hell, you can design a whole nation/theme if you want) what would you make? You can make one to make a nation more flexible, because you think it'd be a cool concept, or because you're bored.

Please no Posts like "this game's fine, you're a jerk" or "you're unit is (insert degrading comment here), what were you thinking?!"

I'll just do one right now to get things started

Pythium: Catapult - Immobile unit with 1 strategic move. It looks like a catapult operated by 2 engineers in Lorica Segmentata armor. It has a low gold cost (around 40) compared to its resource cost (around 200). In battle, it could chuck boulders like a Jotun Hurler, with 8 precision and 20-30 strength. It eats as much as two normal soldiers (the operators need food). The real trick is that they count as 20-30 normal men in sieges.

[ April 15, 2004, 00:51: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

I just want an aquatic blood hunter and amphibious/aquatic blood slaves. And maybe a new water demon similar to Tien Chi's.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Oh, it's so tempting... so tempting...

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Isn't "Bind Ice Devil" a water devil spell? There's an elemental demon for every element.

C'tis: Piper - Using potent herbal poison found in the swamps of C'tis (it's all natural http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) pipers tip the darts of their blowpipes with a paralyzing poison. Pipers are cheap, at 8 gold apiece and 2 resources (like woodsmen blowpipes). They have no other equipment.

T'ien Ch'i: Imperial Magazine Crossbowman Team(that's a mouthful) - They're VERY expensive archers that utilize the Magazine crossbow. It fires bolts with the same stats as shortbow arrows, except it does it 5 at a time. Each bowman is assisted by a shieldman who holds a giant shield (are they called Pavice shields?) for him, which gives bonus defense against arrows (like other shields, but more) although it is no use against melee weapons. Since there are two men, the team eats like two men. The heavy equipment restricts move to 1 strategic and 3-4 on the battlefield. It's all at a grand total of 55/40 (give or take).

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Agreed, most troops are an upgraded or downgraded Version of another.

So my created units would add some more 'unique abiiity' type units :

Ermor : Greater Skeleton (or Greater Longdead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) - same low stats as the current basic longdead, but after non-holy destruction (ie. banishment), rises from the ground where it Last fell every 5 turns to fight again during combat (until all undead leading commanders killed off, or no remaining units left on battlefield, or turn limit expires).

Any : Medusa - stone any non-shielded non-ethereal unit until end of combat at short-medium range. Max 3 units per battle. Stoned units have a huge protection boost and are nigh impregnable to damage, however cannot move nor attack. If any stoned unit's side wins the battle they are returned to normal at end of battle (effect gets dispelled). If battle is lost, destroy all stoned units at end of battle. Stoned commanders' units do not auto-rout.

Any : Giant Beetle - has the ability to devour any smaller sized unit. Flyers are immune. Devoured unit loses 1/4th of hp's per turn that heal the beetle [max 20hps per turn, any hp regeneration ability inactive on target unit while in this state. Undead units only lose hp's but do not heal the beetle]. Devoured unit cannot attack while 'in' the beetle. Effect Lasts until the units or beetle's death at which point beetle can devour another unit, or upon the beetles death the unit appears on the battlefield with whatever remaining hp's. Can come in size 3 and size 5 varieties.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Hate 'ta do this to you, but Medusa is already Pangaea's national pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I'm going to, as I suggested to myself, create my own nation *maniacal laughter*

<--- is new at this, so bear with him

This game has nations that reflect history, religions, and cultures, but I want to try something from a stereotypical fantasy book. The orcs!

Orcs - race of green, brown, and greenish brown skinned men. They lack in sophisticated intelligence, but possess a keen animal cunning which make Orc commanders brilliant strategists and thus able to command many men. Their society centers completely around the skills, strengths, and ability of individuals, not their bloodlines. Every orc, from the lowly rank slave-worker to the arrogant Body Leaders are constantly trying to prove their worth to the community. *yoink from Spellforce*

The Orcish military utilizes highly specialized troops and every Body Leader knows the role of each soldier. The Bodies are formed from a heavily armored Chest, the fast-as-lightning-and-just-as-devastating Fists, and the all important Heart.

The Orcs respect and fear magic so only the best and brightest of the clans are allowed to wield it. Every magician starts out on their path as either a Kennel Watcher or Ailmenter Maker and eventually ascends to the status of Totem Carrier or Disease Crafter and then, after a lifetime of training *that they're not guaranteed, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif * to survive an old and depecrepit orc is admitted into the secret societies of the Pack Leaders or Plague Shapers. This is one of the greatest honors an orc can have. The Orc magicians are so greatly respected that they are also granted priestly authority.

Note: This is supposed to be a drawback for Orcs because the magical priests are also very snobby and arrogant and won't join your army unless you shower them with cash.

I'll be making a couple Orc units/commanders a day.

Note: Orcs have stats identical to humans, except their hunt for honor often leads them to do daring but ultimately stupid feats, causing in a +1 attack skill, -3 defense skill, and +1 morale in their base stats.

Note: Orcs like Jagged, Barbed and Serrated weapons. They're cumbersome and usually give penalties to attack and defense, and are a tad more expensive than other weapons, but increase chances of inflicting Afflictions by 40%.

Orc Trainee

Cost: 6 gold, 13 resources

Abilities: +1 morale

Equipment:
Jagged Short Sword - 4 dam, 0 atk, 0 def, 2 length

Barbed Javelin - 3 dam, ran = str, prec -3, ammo 2

Partial Scrap Armor - 5 prot, -1 atk, 0 def, 2 enc

Buckler - 1 prot, 1 def, 0 enc

Description: Trainees are orc soldiers who haven't been assigned a role because they haven't proved their aptitude yet. Because they're low in society, Trainees don't cost much to train and because they are eager to prove themselves fit for a higher position, trainees don't route easily.

I'll be posting more on Orcs and other unit ideas later.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Heh? Perhaps I should release my "Experiments" mod but then again it's an insult to game balance since I just use it to try out concepts.

Units I made that seem to be somewhat functional without turning the balance:

Abyssal line creatures - Created by using the sprites of aquatic aliens from Duke Nukem.

Abyssal Terror, Size 6 amphibian "army scythe" with a lot of hitpoints and areashock ability. Costs a fortune but is essentially a SC pretender for sale. Drains the economy and quickly racks up the afflictions. But can potentially break a massive formation in the endgame. Currently assigned to Atlantis.

Abyssal Scourge, Size 4 unit that's essentially an amphibious medium cavalery in function. Berserk +3 and venomous. Assigned to the slow moving Atlanteans.

Abyssal Maw, Size 4 amphibian slowmoving flyer with big bite, tentacles and Lifedrain. Assigned to R'Lyeh.

Mythical Creatures - Derived from Hexen and Heretic sprites as well as others less known. Pretenders so far since I don't know how else to create singular creatures in the game.

Earthsunderer - Giant Minotaur with big hammer. Trampler, Berserk and very strong. My switch for the somewhat silly Lord of Fertiliy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reaper - Giant Satyr with Scythe of Slaying. Death and Nature Pretender for the cycle of life. My switch for the Father of Serpents.

Gaeas Avenger - Female Nataranja in red bikini. Unarmed but with earth and nature magic. Switch for the Great Mother.

Earthfires Fury - Flaming Giant Gargoyle. A bit on the higher end of power tough. Fire and Earth pretender with heataura, high protection and firebreath. Doesn't heal and weak against cold. Switch for Phoenix.

Draconian Empress - Three headed giant draconian/hydra hybrid pretender with no magic. Basically a variant of SC. Switch for Manticore.

Targeteer - Robinhood style pretender with 20 precision. All other stats are very poor though. Switch for Crone.

Undermountain King - Big Dwarf pretender complete with Axe, Shield and Beard. Earth Pretender that can function as a mini SC with a little planning.

Wanderer - Hooded Mage with fire, air, death magic. Switch for Frost Father.

Icewind Lord - Nemesis of Earthfires Fury. Giant Icecreature with frostaura, high hitpoints but no healing and fire weakness. Air and Water pretender.


That's all I feel are working as for now. Got a Giant Metal Flying Skull, Imp and Devourer sprites from old Doom, Giant Mummy, Giant Fire Elemental and Big Demonic Flying Head with Arms Thing left to assign names and stats.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Say, is it possible to replace just the sprites for a pretender? No functional changes (and it would still look the same to other players). But I'd be a lot more willing to play the Earth Mother if she didn't look like this girl I slept with once.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure. Just select the monster and then replace the two images with your own .tgas. Seems like it should be pretty simple to do, probably a minute or two of typing. And then, no more post-traumatic stress syndrome for you.

And I'm all about the Earth Mother as she is. That's pretty much the way I've always envisioned them and there's a lovely "Mama SMASH!" quality about them. In fact, I've got one running around in a game I'm playing now. At High Dominion, they're sort of fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

A C'tis cavalry'ish thing. Something in between light and heavy cavalry. The C'tis will be riding on green big poisonious lizards. I'd made the animation and done some scripting, but I need illwinter to release script codes to change themes, I called it 'The Marsh riders'. Not specific original name but it fit nicely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also a Draconis race to play with like they have in age of wonders series (don't hit me for that statement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) would be nice.


Thilock

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Instead of a new race, how about some new themes for the thematically challenged races?

Spider cult of Matchaka
Similar to Pythium’s serpent cult
Requires 1 growth scale
Looses witch doctors and sorcerers
Looses all spider riders, gains ability to recruit both kinds of riderless spiders, both of which are holy.
New unit Spider Queen. (Capital only) Stats similar to black spider, is also a standard bearer.
Looses Voice of the Lord
Gains Spider Priestess, (Capital only) 3 holy 2 death 2 nature 1 random
In a nutshell: Gains a mage with a random slot, but looses all non-capital mages. Should have some fun tactics with holy spider webbing squads. Supplies will be a big limmiter on the spiders because of thier size.

Mictlan Hell Bent
Requires 2 turmoil, non-positive luck scales, and heat +1. Starts with spell Summon Demon.
Mictlan has become controlled by the demons with which they consort.
Looses all wizard/priests
Jaguar, Eagle and Sun warriors gain berserk +3
New unit named Possessed – (Capital only) 3 holy 3 fire 3 blood – has demon flag, can summon small number of imp allies every round, can fly
New Mictlan Hunter 2 blood
New Demonologist 2 blood 2 random (elemental, linked)
In a nutshell: The possessed unit has a lot going for it, but is also very expensive and has a lot of roles to play. Should he summon imps, lead demonic troops, lead the holy troops or sacrifice blood slaves? The Mictlan Hunter is great blood hunter, however there is no easy access to jade knives, and no cheap blood sacrificers so keeping you domain will be more challenging. The demonologists should give Mictlan access to all the different demon summons, so with the added blood this will help compensate for the hit that turmoil will put in the size of the army.

[ April 15, 2004, 16:26: Message edited by: Baalz ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That'd be doable, you can have the flamer breathing fire like Fire Drakes, chargers acting like cavalry, slithers turn into scouts/assassins of some sort, elders become Air and something mages and Flyers become some sort of flying attacking. Hydras become... hydras. You've also got your heroes done for you.

Orc Shield Bearer

Abilities: -2 encumbrance, +2 morale, -6 atk skill, +2 def, causes poison when attacked with short weapons, double patrol effectiveness, 1/2 pillage effectiveness.

Cost: 9 gold, 28 resources

Equipment:
Gauntlet - -1 dam, 0 atk, 2 def, 0 length
Tower Shield - 4 prot, 3 def, 2 enc
Spiked crude mail - 13 prot, -2 atk, -2 def, 5 enc

Description: Shield Bearers are trainees that show an aptitude for survival and taking damage. This is measured by the amount and size of scars that a trainee survives in his first battle. While Shield Bearers aren't trained to inflict much hurt on the enemy, they can strike back with a heavy ironclad hand. Shield Bearers are often put in the Chest, the protector of the Heart.

Edit: Shield bearers now have a bonus in patrol and penalty in pillage

[ April 15, 2004, 23:35: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, I don't know that you need to wait. I'm incorporating something similar for my C'tis mod. Just replace one of their units that you find to be redundant (I'm choosing the runner) by upgrading cavalry and go to town.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First off, how'd you get the weak vs. cold? I may totally have missed it in the mod manual (I don't have it in front of me) but I thought the only thing we could mod in there was resistance and that that was currently locked at 100% no matter the value. If we -can- mod in weaknesses, that makes me extremely happy.

Second, I'd love to see you put your experiments out there. Complete or no, the more mods to look at, play with, and draw inspiration from, the better.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Sorry Mr Duran but you're quite correct. The descriptions I jolted down are from my "designer notes" so they reflect what I want rather than what is. I try to set the critters up in such a way that their lack of elemental weakness balances out. I guess I should have chosen my words a bit better.

I've been thinking about releasing an "Avatar" mod with my altered Pretenders but sort of felt really silly when I examined my mod more critically. It's not a mod that would actually add something to the community, since the current Pretenders have been so carefully tuned.

And to make matters worse I'm using graphics from other games, "abandoned" as though they may be (graphics have all been available free on the web) I'm fairly sure that Illwinter can't host them due to copyright issues. I guess I could zip the unit tgas I created and send them to one of the fansites so other modders can have a go at them. But whom would want to host something like that?

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">fair enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . But it has wings and snake hair as the more traditional Greek representation of the Gorgon... boooo hehe. The developers also implement petrification as a fear effect and not the ability to literally turn to stone [to my knowledge at least]. Lastly there is no unique ability for shielded units to avoid that petrification like in the tale of Perseus & Medusa.

So while the units do have the same name, they function differently in terms of abilities / use / rarity (pretender vs. common troop).

Besides, my Version of the Medusa would have the more mainstream, snake-body with snake hair appearance (no wings) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Oh and BTW, nice job on the orcs hehe. I was going to say there is a surprising lack of greenskin type race in the game, but then I remembered there's some nations that have reptilian type creatures that are green http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . But it still feels like there is no 'greenskin' race to me, so the orcs fill a nice void there. I seem to differentiate between green-reptiles and 'greenskin' lol.

[ April 15, 2004, 19:59: Message edited by: delacroix ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

*cough Vaettir cough cough*

I was actually surprised that they had no technological race with at least crude fire arms (cannons or arquebuses).

Actually, Ulm's kinduva tech race.

And in closing, I would like to say: My might cannot be matched.

edit: Adding to Orcs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Note: Serrated weapons give less penalties to but decreases chances to afflictions to +20%

Note: Orcs designated to Fists are often more savage and barbaric than their more civilized brothers in Chests so they bonuses to Pillage, like barbarians while Chest warriors get bonuses to patrol. Both are not as good in the other role though.

Orc Ripper

Cost: 12 gold, 18 resources

Abilities: -3 def, +3 atk, -1 morale, +1 effect in pillage, -1 effect in patrol

Equipment:

Serrated longsword: 5 dam, 0 atk, -1 def, 3 length
Jagged dagger: 1 dam, 0 atk, 0 def, 1 length
Crude Partial Armor: 7 prot, -1 atk, -2 def, 2 enc

Desc: Rippers are the least honored warriors of an Orc Fist. While just as aggressive and barbaric as the other Fist warriors, Rippers are on foot because they can't learn to ride well. They are often employed by commanders who are short on gold because they're also cheaper than the rest of the Fist.

[ April 15, 2004, 23:29: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Busy ripping off Games Workshop. Been at it for two days of tweaking, testing, and balancing. Results inconclusive. Desperately need expanded modding options, have jury rigged EVERYTHING. Will get back to you when have nagged semicompetent friend into making sprites.

That is all.

PS: Lord help us, they're in the vents!

[ April 15, 2004, 12:42: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Anything trying to attack the Medusa in close combat gets petrified (instant death), unless it succeeds a magic resistance check. It is a very cute ability and would make the medusa great if it was not wimpy enough to sometimes die from a few lucky militia. The unique shield the Aegis does the same thing.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

Medusa is a gorgon. One of three sisters, IIRC the other two sisters did not petrify onlookers. I only remember the names of one of the other sisters at the moment, Euryale.

Edit: this was written by JO. I didn't notice Kristoffer was logged in.

[ April 16, 2004, 15:37: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

So, I happened to have a book titled Deep Thoughts in my hands and stumbled across the following passage...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's my unit.


All hail Jack Handey.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ahh I did not notice that with my in-combat watching of the Medusa pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . (Well I probably figured a unit died due to the claws or snake hair). Though like you said it is a somewhat fragile melee fighter at times which I noticed moreso hehe. Thanks for the heads up on that one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For some background info if anyone was interested and it piqued their curiosity, a summary about the Gorgons from Hesiod's Shield of Herakles :

"Their names were Stheno, Euryale and the third was Medousa, the only mortal one: thus it was her head that Perseus was sent to bring back. The Gorgones' heads were entwined with the horny scales of serpents, and they had big tusks like hogs, bronze hands, and wings of gold on which they flew. All who looked at them were turned to stone".

Actually there is another Version of the story that says the Gorgons had the ability to turn to stone anything that the gorgon looked at, versus 'anyone that looked upon the gorgon was turned to stone'. The latter is Hesiod's interpretation. So there are some interesting variations to the story. But, unless there is yet another Version (which would be less popular), I would assume all gorgons had the ability to stone, and not just Medusa http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

*****


But the reasoning for my medusa unit was to add a melee unit that influenced the enemy shield vs. non-shield army composition (without ranged fire nor armor being a factor). A melee unit that could easily eliminate non-shielded units, yet at the same time be very ineffectual vs. shielded units. Which I find there to be a lack of melee units that are so extreme in effectivess in regards to shields. The actual name of the unit or exact abilities don't particularly have a huge degree of significance for me, as long as it's semi-logical. Hence why I picked medusa as the name, since everyone recognizes at least the turn to stone part of it, and may identify shields as a way to bypass the petrification.

Thats why I like trample units; they creates a unique size vs. size matchup. Or the poison inflicting, poison resistant army. Also like the concept of the machaka spider due to their web entangle ability. Same with HotNife's catapult unit he posted earlier in the thread, unique from most other units present in the game. Units with unique abilities are more alongside my preferences, but maybe not everyone elses preferences.

I like the fact that most nations/themes have a unique flavour to them and play out differently, just wish some units of a particular theme had some different strengths and weaknesses while keeping with the idea of the theme as well. Many are well done, but there are a couple themes like normal themed Ulm which is a notorious example of cookie-cutter units (barring commanders). I wouldn't mind for Ulm to have all generic infantry if 1 ulm infantry was decent against large enemy monsters (immune to trample), 1 infantry good against enemy archers (maybe an inherent air shield, or less armor + faster speed to reach enemy archers faster = higher risk of death when meeting enemy HI instead), 1 infantry good against cavalry, etc. And Ulm would still be a primary infantry theme with magical weaknesses, but now rather than building 1 or 2 types of infantry exclusively maybe 4-6 become feasible depending on the enemy army composition.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

For ulm, the morningstar infantry are supposed to be good against shielded units while the hammer one takes out lighter units and the infantry with 2 handed weapons are more effective against highly protected enemies, I think it was MEANT to be that way. I find myself always using morningstar infantry and knights though.

Do you mean for Gorgons to be something like the king/queen elemental spells? Each casting might get you a different sister and there are only 3. That'd be fun.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

I'm going to add more orc units, yes, I know it's a dead topic, but someone out there might just be interested in some stuff here.

Flame the living crap out of me if you want to see this thread die. Or better yet, vote low on my members rating, it's the "in" thing today!

Orc Hunter

Cost: 14 gold, 6 resources

Abilities: Every Survival ability, you get 1 supply for every 2 hunters in a province, +2 prec

Equipment: Barbed Arrows Bow - 10 dmg, strength isn't factored in, +20% chance to inflict Afflictions, all other stats are identical to Shortbow

Desc: Orc hunters are orcs with good eye sight and survival instincts. They hold prestigious positions as the suppliers and occasionally protectors of orc settlements and villages. Although they're usually civilians, Orcish commanders often recruit and train them to provide ranged support to their armies.

Re: If you could create a unit...
 

According to the Hammer film The Gorgon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif there were three gorgons named: Medusa, Megera and Astherno.

PvK