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Warhammer clone mod
I am currently under way to making a warhammer type mod. I saw someone was working on a warhammer 40K, but I think the fantasy one is better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . The coding is the easy part for me and I was wondering if anyone was willing to help me with the pictures. I can not draw worth a damn(even on the computer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ). If anyone has any suggestions please tell me, or if anyone wants to see a specific army E-mail me and I will send you what I have on that army at the moment. My plan is to be able to have a true "Fantasy" army complete with ogres, goblins, rat-men, dragons, etc.
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Seems the undead army would be the easiest to translate. The way ermor works tactically is very close to the way the undead are in Warhammer. I was always partial to Orks in Warhammer. Squig catapults, snotling pump wagons, night goblin fanatics, wolf riders, squig hoppers, savage orks, black orcs, night goblin shamans popping shrooms(for those of you not familiar with Warhammer, this is not a veiled drug reference but an actual game thing), night goblin doom divers, and the cheese of fielding a 5 man unit of hobgoblins behind a hill making orcs unbreakable because they hate hobgoblins so much they won't break as long as the hobgoblins are on the playing field. I abused that game so much sometimes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Anghlachel, just one small point that has absolutely nothinh to do with the topic:
Your signature is actually a quote from Machiavelli. |
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I believe Machiavelli's reference to the "lion" and the "fox" is a direect reference to the Plutarch's description of the Spartan general Lysander (445BC- 395BC). The key passage is found in Dryden's translation of Plutarch's The Lives of Noble Grecians and Romans (Great Books of the Western World, Volume 13,p.357). There, Plutarch writes: "But to those who loved honest and noble behaviour in their commanders, Lysander...seemed cunning and subtle, managing most things in the war by deceit, extolling what was just when it was profitable, and when it was not, using that which was convenient, instead of that which was good; and not judging truth to be in nature better than falsehood, but setting a value upon both according to interest. He would laugh at those who thought Hercules' posterity ought not to use deceit in war: 'For where the lion's skin will not reach, you must patch it out with the fox's.'" (p.357) Edit:I got this doing a search on google copying and pasting the quote I have in my signature. Just didn't want you to think I am some kind of smarty pants. I got the quote from a fantasy book by Joel Rosenberg called "The Warrior Lives". It prefaced one of the chapters. So basically thanks for questioning it because it was cool looking up Plutarch and seeing his other quotes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [ April 17, 2004, 13:52: Message edited by: Anglachel ] |
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I'd love to see a Warhammer mod. Skaven in particular. C'tis seems to play alot like them, or at least, I play them that way. But it's just not the same as seeing a Grey Seer riding a Doom Bell behind a horde of slaves. Or those deadly assassins wreaking havoc. Ahh, good times. ^^;
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Anglagel:
It appears I was wrong, at least now I can attribute that quote properly myself. |
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Thinking on it, I believe that Caelum seems to fit the High Elf army from Warhammer pretty well. Good archers, chariots, etc. Astral would seem to fit hand in glove with the High Elf armies mastery of High Magic from Warhammer. Good luck on the mod. There is a lot of cool stuff to mine from Warhammer.
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[ April 18, 2004, 23:09: Message edited by: Theldan ] |
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Another type 3Astral and 2Fire, they both have 1 in sorcery since I belive the High Elvs arc more into Scholarly magic than the Elemental magic, As opposed to the Wood elves. [ April 18, 2004, 23:15: Message edited by: Theldan ] |
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A Warhammer FB mod would be great, to bad I know nothing about coding/scripting and i suck with graphics...or els I would be more then happy to help ya out =)
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Best of luck. I spent a few days working on a skaven mod, and ran into a mostly figurative brick wall the moment I got past the bare essentials.
That is to say, all the stats and flavor text are in place, and I know someone who could whip up some reasonable quality sprites, but all the skaven game mechanics not represented by Dom 2 unit stats seem impossible to mod in at the moment. I've been experimenting with the "standard" ability to simulate skaven pack morale, and have gotten what you might call mixed results. There's presently no way to make a weapon have an increased chance of causing battle afflictions. Disease causing attacks(Rather than disease clouds), gouts of warpfire, poison wind globes and poisoned weapons can presently only be made by modifying existing weapons, which is an awfully unsanitary way of doing this sort of thing. If only there were a #duplicate [number] command, to make a new weapon identical to an existing one, but with a different serial number. A supply penalty and generous pillage bonus seem to semiadequately portray skaven logistics, but the ability to substitute unburied corpses for supplies would be ideal. Plus, since there's no way to tag a unit "starves first, eats Last", I had to make skavenslaves #neednoteat and #noheal, to keep them from eating all the Clanrats' food. There's presently no way to start plague monks/skavenslaves/etc. off with battle afflictions, Ikit Claw cannot start out horror marked, and so on. Clan Pestilens troops cannot be made immune to Miasma, not can they be given any noncombat disease-related abilities, nor can the Council Bell Tower site, Screaming Bell unit and Horned Rat pretender increase turmoil and misfortune, Lord Skrolk increase death, and so on. Reinvigoration, particularly reinvigoration penalties(For Pestilens troops) can't be modded in, nor can partial Quickness(For Pestilens troops and assassins), Air Shield(For Snikch), Blood Vengeance(For Thanquol), Luck(For Queek and Thanquol), siege bonus(For sappers and Warlock Engineers), patrol bonus(For Quartermasters, the professional logistics bastards and Brute Squad leaders of the Underempire) and much, much more. Gray Seers can't be given Screaming Bells, experienced Gutter Runners can't be upgraded to Assassins, Eshin contracts can't expire after one assassination(Gladiator style). Summoning Vermin Lords can't incur the risk of a horror mark(Which is a shame, since this could be a nice overlap between Earthdawn/Dominions/Warhammer. Skaven summoning is based almost entirely on overkill. Hurl all you've got at reality, until it breaks). Screaming bells can't curse(Ark style), can't be mobile, juggernaut style temple checks, and can't disrupt magic, nor can the Doomwheel. For that matter, not a single aspect of the Doomwheel can be simulated. Warpstone consumption can't be simulated, neither as a battlefield spell nor as an insanely risky, mostly random, low death-gem cost alternative to empowerment. Skaven can't be made inherently unnatural, random sorcery picks and truly random spell picks can both result in the nature path, and empowerment cannot be made to cost more nature gems/be impossible. Cross breeding can be modified to not require the nature path, but this affects all nations, not just Clan Moulder. Moulder Warlocks can't be given a bonus to this spell, either. Entirely new spells such as Death Frenzy are entirely out of the question. Gray Seers can't be made to appear of their own accord, hero style, when your Dominion is high enough and you've got relatively few Seers. And that's just what I could think of offhand. I've actually got a few handwritten pages of planned features, which I go into in great detail, most of which have more to do with my take on the skaven and the transition from tactical to strategic than with copying and pasting Warhammer stats. None of the aforementioned features are even remotely feasible. Still, even without expanding on the material already present in Warhammer, I imagine a comprehensive Warhammer mod would be much, much more demanding than a skaven mod and, if these are just some of the problems I've run into after about two days of planning and two days of work/testing/finding roundabout solutions to problems, I really don't envy you. This is all too bad, because my conception of the Skaven seems to have an ideal strategic and tactical niche in Dominions 2. I figure they'd replace Pangaea, as some of the two nations' abilities are rather similar, and Pangaea isn't needed to keep another specific nation in check. Besides, Ulm has to be there to get its *** kicked by Skavenblight, Ermor has to be there to pwn the Underempire, and Marignon has to be there to pwn Ermor. Ack, I'm getting way ahead of myself, it'll be a long, long while before I can get anything remotely playable done. And yet I've already got three themes in mind, each of which almost completely redefines Skavendom. My favorite is Dharmic Hordes. What? Quit staring at me. Not like I'm the first person to make plans he's got no chance of actually carrying out. |
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That's an amazing list and I can't offer a lot of counterpossibilities to fix the things that can't be done yet.
However, at the very least, you can put together a starting mod and just go from there. I imagine that more options will open as the patches pile on. And while some workarounds will be unwieldy for the time being, I think it'd be pretty awesome to at least get the framework in place and out there for public discussion. Good luck! |
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Make your wishes for new mod commands:
#marked (starts with HM) #afflicted (starts with affs) would not be too difficult I believe. --- I do not remember how 'Death Frenzy' works in Warhammer, but you can mod 'berserk' and 'touch of madness' into being death spells restricted to skaven only. --- Mod Pythium or Man if you want innumerable heroes. 'Master of games' and 'Knight of the Stone' are unlimited. They are still rare though. Make the blind one into Thanquol etc and make the knights into unspecific grey seers. --- do not think this is moddable, but I can give magic skill bonuses (including negative ones) to units. Wish for a #magicboost command. --- Clan pestilence will be immune to miasma if given swamp survival. |
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[ April 19, 2004, 22:13: Message edited by: E. Albright ] |
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With the skaven army being SO diverse(even more then the orcs) they will be the most difficult to tranfer to Dom2. I have the basic units down but not their special abilities(most of which the game can not do(yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )are of course not in. But there are thing I want to keep in the first mod very similar to the WHFB game and not just to it's history.
Like being able to get all units, and not being restricted(since that can not be done). Like fielding an army of Doomwheels would be absolutly AWSOME, but unlikely when considering how many resources it would take to build one. For the slaves you could just make them small and cheap(like 1 gold ea) but increase their resource cost to 5 or 6. That cost being how many resources it takes to round them up. I do not hink it would be possible to limit tan army to one grey seer except to make them too expensive, but then nobody would want them. I love the plague censors, and wish to have them in the game but I can not figure it out, maybe give them a limited Version of the "Bile" ability as a weapon? Am gonna test that soon. And if you do have any pics for the skaven I would love to see them, Mine are really terrible......really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif As for the reinvigorate in the clan pestilense, you can increase their encumbrance, an increase the AP skill is all that is required, the only problem is the multiple attacks for leaders.Other then giving a general 4swords or a sword with 4 attacks, which you would have to give to magic items too(and that would bee too powerful), I do not see a way around that. [ April 20, 2004, 00:00: Message edited by: Theldan ] |
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Daaamn. What can I say? I probably don't deserve this much dev attention, all I've got is a boatload of insanely ambitious plans and a few lines of rudimentary script. Much appreciated, anyway.
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I know, I know, I'm mostly splitting hairs on this one, it's just that death frenzy isn't the same without half the affected skaven dying of overexertion. I considered using something along the lines of mass "Rage"(Fire lvl 2 thaumaturgy), but the formation and invariable numerical superiority of a skaven army makes this unworkable, unless they can be given some sort of "IF enemypresent=0 THEN chanceofrage=40 ELSE zipahdeedoodah" script. Excuse the pseudocode, it made me feel all... dirty. I mean, I didn't even declare variables. Unsanitary. Quote:
Didn't realize that. Thanks for the tip. Quote:
Wishing as we speak. The future is now! Quote:
D'oh! I knew that. In fact, they already had swamp survival when I left off three(Or was it four?) days ago. I just forgot this'd already been fixed. Anyway, I should be able to get my lazy *** back into gear by tomorrow. KO, you work too hard. Quote:
Unless size increases gold upkeep(I was under the impression it only increased supply consumption), this doesn't sound like MUCH of a problem. #supplybonus'll compensate for the bulimia, Air Shield'll make them count as small targets for MOST missile fire(Not magic), and as far as anyone who actually plans on engaging these guys in melee, fighting alongside them or, Pretender help us, SURROUNDING them is concerned, fanatics DO take up a lot of room. And its probably best to give them even more room, just in case. Besides, like the stately electron and pi-neutrino of olden days, your average goblin fanatic is much, MUCH bigger than he actually is, by dint of being 2 dozen places at once. Quote:
Heh, I've thought up dozens of reasons(Most of which only work in Dom 2, not in tactical-only Warhammer) not to rely on Doomwheel/Screaming Bell/Censer bearer without monks/etc. armies. Particularly Screaming Bells. I mean, they only work properly supplementing hordes of Clanrats, and one Screaming Bell is really more than enough for your run-off-the-mill-horde, but if you actually manage to make use of more than one in a battle, expect misfortune events in each province they conquer, on top of having to raze everything above ankle-height to the ground to feed your army. Quote:
Exactly what I've done, though I've gone with 7 as the resource value. Seems overpriced, but I've taken Kristoffer O's "Underpower everything, then try to strike a balance" suggestion to heart. It's been paying off in testing, too, though I can't properly test Starvation Mechanics(R) without getting the little monsters to eat unburied corpses, in addition to their substantial pillage bonus. Quote:
I don't want that, I just want them to appear, hero-style, on their own terms(Ideally modified by the number of Seers already in play, and unmodified by Fortune). I think it imparts a proper sense of their role as the only truly unexpendable ratlings in Skavendom. As things presently stand, they're the only skaven with access to astral and random sorcery picks, the most powerful priests(Unholy 2, vs a plague priest's unholy 1), and the're the only Skaven mages of any use on the battlefield. Blood 1 Death 1 Moulder warlocks get a crossbreeding bonus, but are wasted on imp summoning and, like all skaven, have low precision(Tunnel life'll do that to ya, not to mention the cataracts. Moulder warlocks lead VERY unhealthy lives). Warlock engineers and Skryre masters get a research bonus, and elemental magic is a bit more useful than blood in battle, but they're overpriced, wear high-encumbrance armor(In addition to their racial encumbrance of 5), and have too many alternate uses. Of course, the very bast skaven mages are the national heroes(The actual heroes, not the herolike Seers), and I'm more than a little worried I've overpowered them. Ikit Claw is a 1 death 3 HOLY 1 random+1 random+2random+2 elemental mage. That's just a wee bit too Pretender-like for my tastes, but giving him any less would ruin his je ne sais quois, his panache, his Ikit. I mean, he's a true Renaissance Skaven. Quote:
Believe me, mine are worse. They're just filler for now, I know someone who could put together some gorgeous sprites/flags/a mod logo, but I don't plan on bugging her until I've got something playable. If I do put anything viable together, I'd be delighted to share, of course. Quote:
My skaven have a base encumbrance of 5(Higher than Caelians!), to represent an INSANELY fast flurry of metabolic overdrive, followed by exhaustion and starvation. This is just one of the reasons even the heaviest Stormvermin only wear full ringmail. Gray Seers have a tad less, being the most levelheaded and disciplined members of their species, and marginally less likely to go into a frothing, calorie-burning frenzy, and assassins have even more, as a result of uberrodent metabolism coupled with yoga, ninjutsu, and regular tantric ratsex. I wanted to make Pestilens troops distinct in that they wear themselves out just as quickly when forced to spend 10 seconds without gnawing someone's face off as they do when actually in battle(Encumbrance 1). From the moment the battle starts, they're in a mindless, suicidal frenzy of ceaseless motion and ultraviolent Freudian overcompensation. If you have to find a way around troops' number of attacks, you can just give them additional weapons without giving them additional item slots. The problem is that if you fill up both hand slots, the commanders lose whatever additional attacks they may have had. #bonus attacks, like the bite and the(Presently inactive) plague bite I've given Clanrat and Stormverming champions, plague monks/priests, rat ogres, and certain heroes, don't seem affected, but this is a less than ideal solution, as #bonus also means the attack imposes no multiple attack penalty(Although the -1 defense modifier still applies, for bites). Erm...I think I had something more to say, but methinks I should be going. Evil is afoot, and today is the first day of the rest of my life. |
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Whoops, just noticed Graeme Dice beat me to that supply bonus thingy.
Just one question for Kris O, apropos of item slots, I've given Deathmaster Snikch(Stupid, puerile title, but all-around nice guy) #itemslots 15630, in order to give him 3 hands, 2 misc slots, boots, a head slot and a torso, precious torso. No effect. Am I missing something? |
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I someone of you working on that mods need I have a Version of this Old World Map
http://www.darkinn.w3.pl/files/wfrp/mapy/oldwor5.jpg at real high resolution (170MB) ... it comes from a scanning of the orignal one. Bye Liga PS. I would really be happy to see a warhammer mod! |
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