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Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
I agree with those whom feel water magic is lacking - partly i believe because so much of that branch of magic is duplicated elsewhere and feels redundant, and spells and rituals unique to its branch are rarer, more situational, and weaker than the other branches. On the whole of course.
Another problem with water magic is how it is so uniformly spread throughout most the research trees. Most of the other disciplines have a majority in a couple of trees; Astral and Death in Thaumaturgy, Nature in Enchantment, Fire in Evocation, Earth in Construction, ect. So what im suggesting are not changes to existing spells but actually NEW spells and rituals be added to Water, hopefully making it better rounded and more more attractive. Of course as with every suggestion any, none, some, or all of them can be included or changed at the designers' discretion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And please post any other suggestions or changes you would like to see if you agree that water needs improving! Rituals Confused Migration Animals which normally migrate during winter months become confused and lost and cannot find their way; ducks and geese fly in cirles and deer become trapped by the ice. Hunters rejoice in their fortune. + 1 Growth Scale in cold provinces? Avalanche An avalance occurs on snow-capped mountains, destroying any temples or labs in the province in which this event occurs. Incidental damage and some casualties to townspeople. Chthonic Wolves Sacred Wolves of the End of Days called upon to devour the heros of humanity, these giant sized monsters radiate fear and command the respect of mortal wolves whom will follow them as if a god. Closed Passes Sudden blizzard accumulates so much snow that all passes are choked with ice, preventing any troops from entering or leaving the targeted province. (Might be good for mountain only). Duration depends on gems used. (maybe 10/turn or something). Rimtustar Awaken giant ***-kicking, nation stomping, big guy with a heart of gold. He can't help pounding the world to dust, its his job! Lyncanthropy Curses several units with the ability to change into werewolves if wounded (might be high level combat spell, small aoe). AAAAHHOOOO Permafrost Causes snowfall in lands with cold scales to freeze into solid ice, reducing the effects of difficult terrain. Movement costs only 1 point in cold provinces. Items Sable Coat Beautiful and valuable coat grants cold resist and +aura. The Icicle of Red Ryder Enchanted Icicle that never melts gives off an cooling aura that reduces the temperature in the province it resides within. Might cause bearer to go blind in one eye, watch out! Ok enough of that. Any better ideas? [ April 17, 2004, 06:08: Message edited by: SelfishGene ] |
Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
Water magic only benefits water races too often, so what about a spell to nail them in the ocean?
Raging Tides 7-8 water circles required, lots of water gems too, say 80: The seas of the world are stirred into a frenzy, a number of aquatic units, 20-40 in each province, become displaced and move 1 province in a random direction. If they're unable to breathe air and happen to get washed ashore, they die. Icicle Shards 1 water circle required, no gems: it's like Flying Shards, but you have twice the projectiles at half power. Edit: isn't there already a Rimtursur spell? Illwinter? [ April 17, 2004, 06:47: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ] |
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Nice ideas!
How about some more weather spells, perhaps linked to nature magic as well. Driving Rain Powerful rain lashes from the sky, flooding fields and knocking down crops. 50% gold income and supply reduction in targeted province this turn. Gentle Rain Kind and blessing rain caresses the land, giving substantial help to crops in your dominion. 25% gold and supply increase in all provinces with your dominion. Mud Patches (combat) The mage brings forth small springs from the ground, creating patches of mud which greatly slow movement. All troops entering these square lose any remaining movement this turn. Each point of magic produces one square of mud. The Last one is aimed at those low level water mages who cast quickness and can then do nothing in battle. A little bit of mud will not change things too much, but will slow troop advances and flight. A low level mage can not do too much with this, but a high level one would mess up a field quickly. |
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No Rimmetursar awaken no matter how long Illwinter is active. It's just flavour text.
I think Water Elementals should have innate quickness and/or more defense. They are clearly the weakest elemental ATM. |
Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
DP
[ April 17, 2004, 08:00: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ] |
Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
Some ideas,
Water Shield (combat spell, improved Version) - Protect target from fire (50%), as well as 20% of all attacks will miss (imagine a cyclonic barrier of water with high pressure, capable of deflecting incoming attacks. Less effective in hot dominion 2+ (say -5% per heat scale >= 2) - If used in cold 2+ dominion, result is an Ice Shield that protects from fire (50%), and increase Armour Protection by (4 + cold scale) Ice Wall (ritual) - Increase defense of fortress wall by 25 per level of cold scale, starting with cold -3, up to maximum value of fortress (so maximum of 175 in cold 3 dominion). May be casted remotely from different province Drowning Bubbles (combat spell) - Single target, target must make MR save or loses 15hp. Receive 2pt damage if successfully resisted. Useless on amphibians, aquatic, or undead. Can't be casted underwater. Hail (combat spell) - BLast a medium sized area with falling icicles. Damage is considered magical and armour piercing. Summon Geckos (ritual) - Summon giant size 4 Geckos with recuperation, regeneration, poison attack, poison immunity, high natural protection but low defense skills. - Summon amount is 4+ Healing Fluid (combat spell) - Heals 6~10+ points, plus curing poison & paralysis. Healing Shower (combat spell) - Heals 6~10+ points on an area of 3+, plus curing poison& paralysis. Cleansing (ritual) - Each casting has a 10% chance of curing the Diseased affliction, from each afflicted creature in the province. It also heals 20% base hp of every creature in the province if they are not at full health (e.g. still diseased units) Waterway (ritual) - Allows mages and her troops to travel from one coastal province to another. Cannot be casted in inland provinces That's it for now. Hope you guys like these ideas. -Gateway103 [ April 17, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Gateway103 ] |
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(cribbed from an earlier post of mine)
Water mages can take 1 troop with them for every magic level they have minus one. (i.e. the first level sustains the mage itself.) Items, thetis' blessing and the water cult theme are the traditional methods for keeping your favored landlubbers breathing. IMHO the number of troops should be increased quite a bit. The water fringe benefit is weak, relative to the other paths. Even x5 or x10 wouldn't be outlandish. Alternatively (or in addition) it could add to defense, as fire/air add to att/prec. SCUBA Rabe |
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The add to defense would work in the alternative, as it seems that Water's the only one of the four elemental magics that doesn't get a boost that way. |
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I noticed that Voice of Apsu and Voice of Tiamat for some reason cannot be cast on water provinces from land (I don't know if you have to be in the water province of just underwater).
But in any case, all the other magic path's search spells work fine in water provinces remotely from land, so I'm puzzled why, - especially - water sites cannot be searched remotely in water provinces when all other paths can. Maybe for VoT, that might be reasonable since its special and covers a few magic types, but this seems an unfair penalty of VoA. For new spells, it'd be nice if water had maybe 1-2 other useful summons, perhaps ones that weren't cold-based or water only, so that they'd be more generally useful. Maybe a big mid to high level amphibious sea creature that could be summoned on land, or something like (amphibious) water nymphs. |
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A side thing that'd be very cool for water races is the equivalent of the water-breathing army items for land races. I know the ring of the fish will allow for commanders to tread on land (which makes for a happy Aboleth) but I don't know of any items that allow aquatic troops to come ashore. It sure would make those other Water summoning spells (like Call Kraken) far more palatable, particularly on maps like Inland where 90% of your fighting's on land anyway.
If there's already an item like this, just clue me in and ignore my ignorance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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-Gateway103 |
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Also, if this can be cast UNDER WATER this gives the two (three?) water nations a way to move their forces quckly around. The effect is lessened by the fact that both current nations are strong in Astral, but this is still a very nice spell, IMHO. Now, I would suggest that you check what spells exist and then post some new ideas. Your ideas were not bad, they just already exist! You said water should have some theme no other paths deal with, so make up few and send them here! I'm interestedt in reading them. |
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When you want to design water spells, maybe you have to ask yourself, "what does the element of water and cold represent"
While some spells in circles and schools are spread willy-nilly all over the place, you can see that some themes exist, especially in the elemental spells. Fire is tied with aggression and anger, so you see many fire spells in Evocation and none in construction. Earth is more about fortitude and creation, so it's dominant in construction and you get many unbreakable units from it. Air is most closely tied to themes of deceit and mobility, since you get illusion spells like Phantasmal Warrior, Mists of Deception, and Cloud Trapeze. What does water represent? Edit: I feel like The Architect, spouting a bunch of crap and nonsense that's supposed to make people try hard to figure on. Also, I'd like to say that I can't think of a thing that water and cold reflects, therefore water seems to be a scattered and weak discipline. [ April 17, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ] |
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- Kel |
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*slap* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
[ April 17, 2004, 21:34: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ] |
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I'm not convinced water is weaker than other paths at all. Sword of Swiftness and Boots of Quickness, Bottle of Living Water, and Clam of Pearls are some great items, for example. Sea Trolls and Ice Devils are quite good. Resist Fire and Cold (etc), Quickness, various other good spells. Water's defensive bless bonus is one of my Favorites for improving blessed combat unit survival.
I do like the coastal transport spell idea. PvK |
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Give it a small chance of reflection at low levels of water skill that increases with water skill. Another thing water represents : tranquility, fluidity, or, ahem "softness, flexibility and life giving". (That Last would be a quote from the description of T'ien C'hi's Master of the Way.) Sure sounds like Water could be given a non-Nature healing spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or a ... recuperation spell, for non-combat. Maybe caster-only, takes some amount of gems to cast. Could wear off after a wound was recovered from. Or - be castable on others, for that matter. Again, taking gems to cast, and wearing off with the death of the caster, just like almost all other spells. Personally, I'd like the recuperation spell, to avoid all the useless gimpy Pretenders and high-cost commanders. Or it could be given a damage reduction spell, "Water Form", that reduces damage taken by 25% or so, as water gives before a blow, softening any impact. Less powerful than Mist Form, but still pretty useful. "Ice Castle" spell - seems silly to me that Nature mages can create an aquatic castle, but powerful Water mages can not. Only castable in cold provinces; possibly castable on land. New summoning spells - right now, most of Water's summonings either can't leave the water, or can't go in the water. (Sea Trolls are an exception - any others?) A spell that migrates the temperature to be colder, maybe, considering that so many of Water's spells are cold based. |
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If water reflects tranquility, flexibility, and etc. It seems that water would be tied to peace. What if there was a global water spell, "Tranquility," that stopped fighting for a number of turns? Every, say, 20 gems you spend on the casting extends the number for a day, but it can be dispelled by determined war mongers.
If you happened to have many more and more effective forts than your enemies, you could pump up your military and they can't stop you without a dispel. |
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Also, if this can be cast UNDER WATER this gives the two (three?) water nations a way to move their forces quckly around. The effect is lessened by the fact that both current nations are strong in Astral, but this is still a very nice spell, IMHO. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would like to third this excellent suggestion. |
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Something that has been hinted at earlier but doesn't _really_ exist in Dominions as of yet is reflecting things. Specifically, spells. There's blood vengeance, but that's any/all damage. You could give Water both Combat and non-Combat spells to reflect magic.
It shouldn't be simple absorption, as there is any number of spells to nullify magic (most of them Astral). And it wouldn't necessarily have to be perfect reflection; especially in Battle, just ensuring that your mage isn't the target of [insert nasty spell here] would be useful. In a programming sense, I guess you could have it check to see if the spell is up, and then, if [check] is failed (what it needs to check, if any, is a balance factor), re-choose the target (but the target area may change). Basically, if you refer to Fire as Aggression, than Water should be its opposite. Redirection and using its opponent's strengths should be a hallmark of Water. What about a high-path spell that replaced the Mage's Paths with that of an enemy mage? Just a few thoughts. Bayushi Tasogare |
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If I'm supposed to get water magic to change it to a more useful path... well, doesn't it feel kinda silly?
BTW, Waterway is "fourthed" |
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The ability to cause a local drought (perhaps equivalent to a shift to death scale, additional supply penalty?) or cause more favorable rains (growth bonus, additional supply bonus) might seem appropriate. Water + Death also suggests some nasty globals involving well poisoning; there's no reason why poison has to remain purely within the scope of Nature.
A global that would increase income/supply in coastal provinces (lots of fish, say) would be thematic, and would serve as a nice opposite to the one that floods coastals. A battlefield spell that countered the effects of extreme heat might also be thematic, although not especially fair unless fire got the obvious opposite. |
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Yumm, that reflection idea is very nice. A low level spell that just pushes a spell off a bit, probably hitting someone close by would help protect the mage, but not completely nullify the spell. A medium level spell would actually bounce it straight back at the offending caster, with the precision determined by the water mages level.
I also really liked the peaceful aspect suggested. Spells that limit fighting or the recruiting of fighting units would add a new aspect to the game. It would also make the arcane domes more attractive over key recruiting centers. Finally, I thought I would add my two cents worth. Water magic really does not hold a lot of attraction for me. It has a couple of good things, available at low levels, but distinctly seems the least desirable of the paths. A couple more spells or items (not too many) would make this a more interesting choice and avoid the risk of over balancing. |
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Cutting and pasting some of my ideas from the old clams thread (now sunk into obscurity):
I'd like to see a mini Falling Frost available at a lower research level. It's a long time from Cold Bolt to Falling Frost, and other paths have already gotten several more combat options by the time FF becomes available. (Some people have since suggested that it be an area-effect Ice Strike instead, which on consideration, I like better - one of the problems with water magic is its ineffectiveness against undead, because they are immune to cold *and* Jotuns', er, Sailors' Death.) How about a Waterspout that stays on the battlefield for a few rounds (like the Cloud spells), crushes targets and throws them around (similar to trample)? Or a Water Jet that just deals some physical damage but doesn't require another path like Geyser? Those might not work that well against supercombatants, but they'd at least help against undead or Jotun armies. Rituals: Winter Wolves not measuring up? How about doubling the gem cost and number of wolves summoned (thus requiring fewer mages for the same wolf output)? Or how about a new water summon? Giant turtles perhaps (amphibious, size 6, very high protection, high strength bite attack)? Yetis (high hp, strength, size 3, moderate protection, cold resistant, claws+bite, you get a nice sized pack with each summon)? I think the change in seasonals was intended to move the game away from massing ethereal summons. But there's no reason that corporeal summons can't be strong and cheap enough to make a nice supplement to a conventional army. Conceptually, sea trolls are fine, but their stats seem to not measure up. Some have already suggested a ritual that makes all troops in a given province amphibious (either for a limited time, or permanently). Or how about a one-province Version of Thetis Blessing (spending extra gems to set the duration like Astral Window)? These could help water nations bring their aquatic troops onto land, or help a land nation invade the ocean. Where are the items that let a commander take aquatic troops onto land? Amulet of the Fish will let Auluudh or a Nerid come out to play, but not bring Sea Serpents, War Lobsters or Crab Hybrids with them. Passive ability: Every path of magic gives its mages some ability. Nature gives supply, fire gives leadership and attack, earth gives protection, death gives fear and undead leadership, etc. Water gives water breathing to the mage and ONE unit per level of water magic. This is, frankly, pathetic, especially on a path that is already among the weakest in most other areas. Instead, why not let a water mage bring ALL his troops underwater? Most mages have low leadership anyway, but the few who have good leadership (or +leadership items) can lead whole armies underwater. Or at least raise it to 5-10 troops (or 10 total size of troops) per level of water magic. One unit per level is horrible, even if the unit is a Crusher or similar expensive summon (of a non-water path, I don't see any water unit that would be worth bringing). I'm not sure that all these suggestions (and those of others on this thread) should be implemented at once - it might be too much. But I think there's a clear consensus that water magic is less useful than other paths, especially against cold immune opponents (cold is the most common immunity I think, even more common than poison - and nature has *plenty* of other uses). Adding more spells and items seems to be something that Illwinter enjoys doing, and if it both adds variety to the game and improves game balance, so much the better. |
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Oh, and I also like Reflect (works like Air Shield but deflects spells?) and Waterway (which, IMO, should work to/from any coastal or sea province - possibly with a restriction to prevent it becoming the new Dom I Gateway, such as destination must be friendly dominion or under friendly control).
A large area Sailors' Death might be effective too. That'll make your opponents wish they had invested in Antimagic. A Mass Desiccation might be good too - doesn't affect inanimates but does affect cold immunes. Also, both Desiccation and Sailors' Death seem to have excessive path requirements for their effect (Desiccation only gradually increases fatigue, Sailors' Death has moderate precision and both are negated by MR and don't affect inanimates). Why not 1 for Desiccation, 2 for Sailors' Death? Finally, a question for Illwinter - was water magic *intended* to be nearly useless against undead, to represent its opposition to fire magic which is very strong vs. undead? Or is that just a side effect of so many water spells being cold based or not affecting inanimate targets? |
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Water is the path of Balance, it is the element that evens things. Water should have more spells that are the oopposites of each other. Flood and heavy storms on the other hand, then draught, then the gentle rains of spring that let the world grow again...
The rain spells tilting the scale to Growth or Death seems like a good idea to me. Maybe even a spell causing fresh, growth-abiding rains in spring and summer, crop-destroying storms on autumn and cold blizzards in winter? Also, Water form is a nice idea. Water Elementals really need something like that! It could even increase gradually, with even 50% reduction on damage being possible. That should only be for some special summons, like Water Elementals, that would have low/no protection... 20% seems good for protectiona spell. As it works best versus high damage, it would be most useful on a strong creature fighting versus strong creature(s). Sc vs Jotuns? Or even SC vs SC! Also, I really like how Water Elementals are Ice Elementals instead in cold provinces. Does anyone have ideas for morphing monsters? |
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[ April 19, 2004, 18:35: Message edited by: Wendigo ] |
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Too many of these suggestions would make water too much like the other paths. The sort of battlefield mojo suggested here really sounds more like fire magic, and the overland population killers/economy disrupters are already present in plenty of other paths. Methinks we should make what water already has more powerful, rather than making all the other paths less unique and ruining water's style and the strategies associated with it in the process.
The Waterways spell is definitely fifthed, and reflection definitely fits water's symbolic aspect, though I worry about balance issues. The water path peripheral benefit is definitely the feeblest of them all, but allowing water mages to bring 5-10 units underwater with them might ruin the water races' home court advantage, and make certain higher levels spells kinda useless. Besides, water mages can already supplement native oceanic troops with kickass aquatic summons the moment a land nation has a foothold in the sea. I'd much rather see water mages get either a defense bonus, or something a bit more useful for non-melee mages, though I'm not entirely sure what. If entirely new types of spell really are necessary, there's plenty that water symbolizes which isn't quite covered by the other paths, such as the adapatability/malleability/motion/fluid gooeyness evident in Quickness and in the Masters of the Way, coupled with the serenity also seen in the Masters, but not readily apparent in any actual spells. If you positively must rip off the other paths, there're probably things that can be done with scrying that retain that watery touch, rather than being pure astral. |
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Good point, V.L..
I bet a group quickness high-level water spell that cost water gems would be an effective addition. I think Ice fortresses are a neat idea, though they should probably only work in cold provinces. An Ice Wall spell to block land access (and supply and gold and resources via castles) to a province might be interesting too. It would have a strength based on the number of gems put into it, and get worn down both by heat scale and by units trying to enter (using their seige ability). Might be more work for IW than it's worth, though. Maybe a Dom3 idea. Edit: Oh, and here's an amusing idea for a combat spell that would only work (best?) in cold provinces: Snowball - a growing rolling snowball that rolls through enemy formations trampling them... PvK [ April 19, 2004, 20:38: Message edited by: PvK ] |
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I though Ice Fortress would be something like your Ice Wall idea, temporary fort that gets destroyed when sieged and/or when it melts. It could get bad with some Earth rituals though.
Very Powerful cursed magical item costing 80 water gems and giving the wielder +1 on any magic path, including those he doesn't have. If it was an armor no-one would be able to wear two of them. Good ones, IMO, are Water Way, Watery Form, Reflection, propably some others I forgot. Maybe water should be Random magic? That would link Water and Luck together. I can't really come up with other things than that Robe of the Rainbow, and that is just pure random. Maybe Gandalf could give us some hints? |
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Edit: I guess you do have to survive to Alt level 8, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif PvK [ April 19, 2004, 21:21: Message edited by: PvK ] |
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One catch that everyone may be missing is that what's important here is good water RITUALS: All the combat spells in the world can't really become a large enough gem sink to make water gems useful for non-clams. Water magic has to compete on the strength of its rituals, as it already has a fair number of combat spells which tend to run the gamut from godly (quickness, quickening), to useless in most situations(water strike, water shield).
There are, however, very few worthwhile ritual spells. |
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PvK |
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Just a quick thought. It's always seemed kind of silly to me that Air evocation spells work underwater, while water's dont. I would think it would be pretty suicidal to throw a bolt of lightning at someone underwater. But shouldn't spells like Ice Strike function there? After all, you'd just be freezing some of the surroundings and hurling it at the enemy, which would probably be easier than just generating the ball of ice out of nowhere like normal.
And no risk of electrocuting yourself either! Note that I dont mean ALL water evocation spells, like Falling Frost and Neifel Flames would obviously be excluded, but Ice Strike, Cold Bolt, and Cold BLast should definately work underwater, I think. Also note that my assumption that Lightning Bolt, Orb Lightning, and Thunderstrike do work underwater comes from the manual, so if thats not true, dont flay me alive. |
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just some thoughts? trying to be inspired by the good points about uniqeness and about need for monthly rituals
I had been thinking a little on the status of light infantery as discussed here http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=74;t=002364 couldn't water magic be a suitable candidate to improve the use and strenght on light inf. something like changing the whole battlefield to a muddy place, where heavy inf is severly punished. But thats maybe to similar to other spells. A ritual improving the use for LIs was maybe a neat option. I tend to think of water magic as defensive and as such I think of something making defense of a provinse a little more poverfull or giving some good skirmish powers A option was a lower upkeep spell/ritual working for LIs (or all tropps) in the one province where the spell is cast? Basicly this makes the water gems able to turn into gold when enough troops are gathered. But forgetting about the LI talk I have been thinking that if water need some really unique and usefull monthly ritual , what about one turning water only troops into troops cabable of going on land/and in sea. This could be done by changing the aquatic ability to amhibian or something similar. Or it could be something like a mermaid curse , where a few troops gets a disease/ and now has to change and go on land/into the sea or loose hp. Or gets some limmited rounds to go on land in! (this could maybe even be combined with clamps -if clamps was turned into something like the fewer fetish forced to be hold on land- but thats another topic). well thats pretty vaque but someone might want to comment on it anyway |
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This would reflect military history in the effects - cavalry ruled the battlefield, armored foot also did quite well. But in rainy, muddy conditions, the unarmored opponents were able to overcome. Horses slip in the mud, everyone does - but the LI and skirmishers were able to get up quicker and stick sharp pointy objects through the chinks in the armor. Then again - this doesn't actually fix water, nor does it fix LI - it only helps make things not-so-bad if you have both. [ April 21, 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: Cainehill ] |
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Let's not dwell on this too long, though, no need to hijack a water mojo thread with our LI propaganda. |
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How about a water battlefield enchantment (or global?) to reduce everyone's attack skill. In general this would make battles Last longer and thus let the encumberance advantage of LI be worth more. Of course, it would also accentuate the advantage of elite units...
Water should have some more good climate changing effects like Wolven Winter. I like the idea of a Very Powerful item which shifts the scale of a province to cold. It fits the theme and is similar to some other items. How about a Drout spell that shifts a province towards death? A combination of multiple Wolven Winters and Drouts would be a worthy gem sink in a lot of situations... |
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Only have 2 metric minutes to post, so I'll be brief.
How about an alteration combat spell, in 3 possible variants(Single target, large area, and Inner Sun style death curse) which can only be cast/triggered underwater, and renders the target/s aquatic? Amphibians, poor amphibians, water mages and their retinues, anyone who fails to resist would be incapable of leaving the ocean without an amulet of the fish. Stylish, appropriate, and only rasies 1 question, that of whether poor amphibians would retain their penalties for fighting underwater. A similar spell with slightly different style could simply afflict target water mages/amphibians/aquatic units with the mermen's curse, meaning they'd have to return to water every so often, amulets of the fish nonwithstanding. If this spell had a small area effect(Meant to be used on commanders) but could be used on land based units ordinarily incapable of entering the sea, that might serve to complicate things nicely. I actually got the idea for this curse when toying with a nature battlefield enchantment, "Circe's Caprice". Irreversible, insanely random(And affected by fortune scale) mix of Polymorph, Transformation and Cross Breeding, which affects both sides in any given battle(Including the caster, but that's what mage MR is for. Besides, the effects aren't necessarily negative). If we start grasping at straws, I can see how a, shall we say, fish-based variant of that might work, though I imagine actually coding this sort of thing could be a major headache. The second spell could also have a blood/nature or blood/earth counterpart which binds units/commanders to a particular province, a la hamadryads, certain vampire myths, and much, much more. Not that that's on topic, or anything, I just find it cool. Time elapsed! See ya. |
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Anyone here read Planetary?
Groinshatter Water 1, Alteration 3, precision 100, range 10, fatigue cost 40, MR easily negates. Effects include 2 armor negating damage, paralysis, and immunity to succubi. If affected, the Lord of the Hunt and Lord of Fertility are completely destroyed. |
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Cue a display of idle schlongery the likes of which has not been seen since the Athens of yore. Let's breathe some life into these fora.
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Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
Vicious Love is a scary man... a very scary man.
I think I figured out what water magic means . Most of their spells are geared towards defense because they're more effective in your home turf. Many water spells are underwater only, so forget about flexibility there. Others are heavily influenced by cold domains, so they're superb with the -heim races and Caelum, but less than mediocre for those battles away from home, where your faith doesn't prevail, or worse, in Abysian/Machakan territory. Raise your hand if you see the inherent flaw in this philosophy when applied to a game about WAR and EXPANSION? What about a high level ritual that would give your units Amphibian (NOT poor amphibian) traits? I don't feel like putting any stats, but I guess it should be alteration, and for each gem you spend, you can make 3 size worth of units amphibian. Another ritual for water might be "Healing Spring." It's a low levelled conjuration or alteration spell that creates a healing spring in a province. The spring gives everyone in the same province Recuperation. |
Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
I like healing spring, except the low level part; wounds are supposed to be fairly difficult to get rid of, I'd make it perhaps 6th level (as opposed to 8th for Chalice or Faerie Court). A little lower in level so Water gets a boost, but high enough to keep wounds significant.
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Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
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Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
Having recently played a not-too ill-fated Atlantis for the first time, I'd like to reemphasize something others have said. Water 9 has a great blessing, sure.
But other than the blessing, there seems to be almost no reason to take water to high levels : great early low level spells, sure. A couple of good to great low to mid level forgings (in terms of Water magic needed). Get up to the very powerful and artifact level though, and ... Water seems to have almost jack. I pushed a water-5 national mage up to water 8, finding ... nothing. (Orb of Atlantis is the highest, and it only requires W4 plus E1.) Everything but blood researched to 8 or 9, it seems that water -should- have some good high level spells (as others do) and also at least a couple of decent powerful magic items and artifacts. But it doesn't, but it seems like it should. The Chalice? Shouldn't that be water? A powerful artifact sword that protected its wielder and healed his wounds - originates from the Lady of the Lake in Arthurian legends. Maybe, given what water supposedly represents - an artifact that gives access to some non-water spells? Hmmm. A Magic Pool artifact, requiring high water magic, that gives a choice of Akashic Record or Astral Window, no gems required? Or even if it only gave a choice from the other lower level scrying spells. Cloak or Armor of Water - an artifact armor that gives mistform (being liquid makes it similarly difficult to land a solid blow) or etherealty, and gives 50% resistance to fire, cold, and lightning, since water buffers against all of those? There was a cup given to kings, that protected from poison - some other bonus would seem reasonable as well. Maybe reduced cost for all water summonings, or a plus to water magic? Just a tired wolf's attempt to raise the red lantern, er, consciousness about water's woes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
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