Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

For the following reasons, I would like to see the ability to jack taxes to 200% in a newly conquered province be possible only when you own the province for 2 turns (or, alternatively: if you have a supply line to a friendly fort, but this would require huge amounts of code change I bet).

The reasons a wise man pointed out to me: Sneaky troops taking over a province behind enemy lines can pillage to their hearts content, but they could also move on -- but the province's unrest will skyrocket due to taxation, so that the original owner is doubly penalized when he takes the province back.
This seems unbalanced simply because there is no counter to it and no reason *not* to do it: you get returns for zero risk, wheras pillaging requires that you spend a turn with your units reaping that money and causing unrest. Taxation gets you the short-term money and the annoying unrest for the original owner without any additional effort on your part.
One could imagine that inital conquerers need at least 1 month to install and take over the burocracy in a province which would allow them to double taxes.
Thus I suggest: Taxation raising in provinces newly conquered from enemy players is possible only after you own it for one full turn.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

Hrrrm, interesting tidbit about the scout thing. Sounds like more of a problem with perhaps overexpansion and not keeping up a proper province defense than a problem with being able to raise taxes to 200 initially. What say you?

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How is there no counter to it? Province defense can defend against attacks from a few sneaks, and big sneaking armies are easily caught.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

I'm inclined to agree with Anglachel. The nation that owns the province ought to be able to do what they want with it. Conversely, the nation that used to own the province deserves what they get for not defending it sufficiently.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

Bleh, whine, whine. The system is fine. Just learn to defend your own damn provinces. If you can't defend it, it's not yours anyway. Jacking taxes to 200 isn't uncounterable, anyway: Just demonstrate your annoyance to the offender by gassing his provinces instead. If every time he does this, his capitol gets hit by Black Death, he'll stop. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I havent heard this tone from you before and it surprises me. My suggestion may be idiotic and useless, but I am certainly not whining.
To be frightfully honest, the suggestion came not from me but from my very capable opponent in a 2 player game whose arguments sound very reasonable to me.
Good day to you.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I havent heard this tone from you before and it surprises me. My suggestion may be idiotic and useless, but I am certainly not whining.
To be frightfully honest, the suggestion came not from me but from my very capable opponent in a 2 player game whose arguments sound very reasonable to me.
Good day to you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LMAO There goes Norfleet making friends again.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. Sorry. I'm cranky and I've been up for nearly two months now, a record for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If I stop making any sense, that's why.

Must...play...more....Dom2!

[ April 30, 2004, 18:49: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. Sorry. I'm cranky and I've been up for nearly two months now, a record for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If I stop making any sense, that's why.

Must...play...more....Dom2! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh ok.
"You have been up" means you have not slept in 2 months?? Really? Isn't that a case for a ... doctor?
best to you

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

Actually the reason that a change should be considered here is that the 200% tax gimnic is just plain broken. I mean there is never a reason not to do it is there? If your sneaking force wins the battle (and how hard is it really to do this vs some nations PDs?) then you set to 200% get at least one turn of 'free' income, maybe more than that, then move on. As a tactical weapon its such a no brainer that it should be looked at again.

A better solution to some imposted restriction on what people can do with their tax rates is to rework the entire economic system, but hey, tink isn't asking for that... yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Just give me more time with him and he'll be in here championing even more unpopular ideas, well unpopular to the same old same old crowd anyway... sheesh do you guys ever sleep http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ May 01, 2004, 22:57: Message edited by: licker ]

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

What if you only received money from the provence if you owned it at the start of the turn?

So if you conquer a territory you get the money that was collected the previous turn, most likely 100%.

If you jack up the tax rate to 200% and your enemy takes it back they would collect the 200%tax, not you.

Make sense to you me... your army just busted up the defending force, heads straight to the tax colector and asks him to hand everything over. The tax collector spent the entire season previous collecting the money at the previous tax rate.

You then inform the tax collector that you are the new power in the this land and to collect twice the money. He goes about his business as your army flees and the province in retaken by your enemey.

They walk up the tax collector who hands them double the money and tells them about how pissed everyone was over the whole experience.

Depending on how everything is coded this might be a real easy fix.

[ May 01, 2004, 23:30: Message edited by: Maltrease ]

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

I think this is a great idea myself. If you want to rob the people blind, then you should have to stay and pillage. This strategy is almost on the verge of being blatantly abusive of the game mechanics. Besides, when unrest occurs from the people getting upset against the conqueror doing this, it really doesnt make sense that it stays for their liberator and (hopefully) previous benefactor.

Not to mention that people are hardly going to work double time and start shipping their bread and butter to their hated enemies on account of a scout that happened to wander by for two weeks.

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

double post.

[ May 02, 2004, 05:55: Message edited by: Slygar ]

Re: Suggestion: Raising taxes: only in turn 2+ after conquering
 

I am curious and have a question/thought on a somewhat related issue.

We know that battles cause unrest, and foreign dominion in your provinces also cause unrest. But if you "liberate" a province under your dominion, why couldn't there not be a one-time reduction in unrest? Vice versa, conquering of foreign dominion-controlled province, even if no battle occured, should incur extra unrest/resentment against the "invasion". This could already be in, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, if this is the case, coupling with the getting money at start of turn idea, this would potential benefit the previous owner. Not only do they get 200% income instead of the sneak foreign scouts, but unrest caused by the high tax may possibly be alleviated to some extent by the "liberation".

Of course, this won't stop scout sneak attacks, which are more useful at disrupt economy, destroy temples, etc. But this may reduce this tax rampage situation people are describing (personally I play SP only, so don't know how serious this is for MP)

Just some a stray thought.

-Gateway103