I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Well, I'm not so a good player and I took a poor Great Sage to improve forging and site searching for my Ulmish kingdom.

I'm now facing a Mictlan kingdom with a VQ ... and Fiends of Darkness.

Well ... I've counterattacked his starting offensive with my armies ...

12 of my Black Knights had meet in battle his 12 Fiends of Darkness ... I lost all knights, he lost only 1 Fiend.

About 50 ulmite men found death by his VQ, infantry of ulm, and black knights.

What the hell Ulm can rely on to deal with these things? I thought Ulm had good national troops cause the lack of serious magic, but it isn't so.

In other games too I founf my Ulmite armies slaughtered by summer lions, and devils (well I stopped summer lions by summoning Ether troops ... not Ethereal ... well they're ... the Ether Lord and his retinue.).
But however I've seen my armies trampled one by one.

Someone can help me in these situations?
However I'm starting to play next games with bigger pretenders.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Well Ulm's national troops should cut through Mictlan's national troops like they aren't even there, what with the Mictaln units being equipped with dinky little spears and slings and whatnot. But just like everybody else, Ulm's national troops can't stop a bunch of powerful summons or a SC by themselves. And the VQ sure seems to be the most difficult SC to counter.

What you really need are preists that can banish demons, but I don't imagine you have access to any except your Prophet. I think Ulm's best bet against this kind of threat is to research Construction and use your smiths' forge bonuses to build lots of magic weapons. The lifeless construct troops you can get from the Construction path would probably be useful against the VQ as well. But that's sort of a long-term strategy, I'm afraid. It sounds like it may already be too late for you to get a strong, magically-equipped force into the field.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Well Mictlan has no national troops except some patrolling force there and there ...

He's attacking only with VQ, and Fiends.

So I'm almost doomed.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

How late is it in the game? What do you have researched? Do you have any mages other than your dwarves? Who is your pretender? What is the VQ armed with?

Fill us in, we can help. I cant imagine you having that much trouble, so give us some details.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Don't forget the classic ways of fighting SCs - curse (Totem Shield), Bow of Botulf, Etheral Crossbow, 'Sleep' if you can get through the MR, Eye shield, dropping cursed items, etc. - don't try to go toe to toe against a magically superior force as Ulm. If you do you're playing to your weaknesses and his strengths.

Also if you have a rainbow mage pretender you may be able to forge some items which will increase your priests' holy power (although this isn't easy) so that more of them can banish demons.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">pet peeve: Ulm doesn't have dwarves. That's Vanheim.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">pet peeve: Ulm doesn't have dwarves. That's Vanheim. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Right, of course. I meant the functional equivalent, those 3-earth-1random forge guys. Smiths?

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">pet peeve: Ulm doesn't have dwarves. That's Vanheim. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Right, of course. I meant the functional equivalent, those 3-earth-1random forge guys. Smiths? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">actually they're 2-earth 1-fire [Vanheim's dwarves are 3-earth 1-random]

but no big deal - just a pet peeve I have - pay no attention...

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">pet peeve: Ulm doesn't have dwarves. That's Vanheim. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Right, of course. I meant the functional equivalent, those 3-earth-1random forge guys. Smiths? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, the smiths are 1-fire-2-earth, Vanheim's dwarves are 3-earth-1-random.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where were your mages? Blade wind would have made short work of those.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ulm has mediocre troops with heavy armour, you have to work around that when you play them.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ether lords are a huge waste of astral gems when you could have just put 5 smiths on the battlefield and have them bladewind all those low protection troops to death. Fiends and devils only have 8 protection, summer lions have 0 protection.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Depending on the relative # of provinces you each have, this may or may not help.

The VQ + Fiends army can only invade 1 province each turn (can they siege your castles? don't think so if you got decent # of troops inside...)

But since they have only some patrolling foreces here and there, and Mictlan PD isn't great, you can split your superior Ulmish army (since they are superior, you don't need as many troop in each sub-army) to invade say multiple provines of his per turn.

True, you won't destroy his VQ and Fiends this way, but you are destroying his empire and gem base (to lessen his ability to summon more Fiends). At the very least, this buys you time and resources to finally get rid of the VQ and Fiends.

Sometimes the goal is to destroy enemy forces. But sometimes an economic (money/resource/gem) warfare can just be as effective, or more so in the long term if you need to face other nations later. Afterall, destroying an empire to win a war is no victory.

Just a random thought. Hopefully it's not too late.

-Gateway103

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's Retarded, Part Duh. It's turn 20ish. His research is basically nonexistent. Mictlan outclasses him in research by 2:1. I wouldn't be surprised if an ice devil showed up soon.

Cohen, you are totally and utterly spooned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That's what you get for trying to fight a blood nation in Very Difficult Research.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Let me guess - Norfleet is the Mictlan VQ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

My only advice would be to try to forge Herald Lances to fight the devils and (the most underated strategy) beg your niegbors to help stop his expansion. Tell them you will be there forge whores for the rest of the game. If it works and later on you become strong enough, stop being their whores! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 03, 2004, 01:55: Message edited by: Pirateiam ]

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Incorrectness. I am Ermor. Sergex is Mictlan. This is the same game that another related thread has been started about another war with me against Rabe.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">His neighbors, seeing the imminent collapse of his empire, are attacking him as well in an attempt to grab as much territory as possible to stabilize their own borders, rather than letting Mictlan have it all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 03, 2004, 04:29: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ummmm then my advice would be to batten down the hatches put the moat bridge up, go down in the castle wine cellar and pop open those bottles you were saving, drink yourself into oblivion....looks like your toast.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Sometimes when you're toast, you're toast. With time to prepare, it's not such a hard problem. I don't think Blade Winds is likely to do much to Fiends of Darkness, though.

Call in the priests. The Smite Demon spell would be handy, if you were Iron Faith. (Those players who think Iron Faith is weaker than base Ulm, notice this.) Priests are good not only for banish attacks, but also to fight the VQ's dominion. VQ will be loathe to fight outside her dominion, where her immortality is void. Mictlan needs to use blood slaves, priests, temples to keep up dominion.

Attacking on multiple fronts is also a good idea, since Mictlan probably has a limited number of demon hordes.

Various anti-demon/undead magic weapons are good ideas, especially since Ulm has forging discounts.

I think though that enough heavy infantry of Ulm in a block would be an effective and cheap enough obstacle for Fiends of Darkness - just keep their morale up with Sermons of Courage and keep your leaders from getting caught unguarded by the Fiends.

PvK

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Well I dont know about the rest of the crew in this game, but if as Norfleet said research is difficult and it is turn 20ish, then you can bet
- his VQ is armed with bupkes
- his dominion is mediocre at best

Do as Gateway suggested and screw up his provs, preferably those with temples and high coinage; even if you kill a few blood hunters, that's fine.

A naked VQ is not *that* scary, especially in your own dominion. Go for his provs in which you think the VQ is not, and let her come to you. Your PD is kinda helpful here since it's X-bows, just keep a few infantry folk around; numbers will help, dont go for the knights right now.
Once his blood economy and money is dented, he'll be hurting.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Alas, gateway is only available at Thaum-5....a high mark for Ulm, given the poor research conditions...and complete lack of astral mages.

Also, it totally fails to solve your problem, as Gateway can only allow you to travel between friendly labs. You'll have to do your raiding on foot. Laying waste to the Mictlan blood economy is definitely a bonus, though....and odds are that Mictlan will have very little he can STOP you with, as his national troops are crap and his fiends are limited in number.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

Crank all taxes up to 200, start pillaging your own provinces, and give everything you own to someone who promises to extract bloody revenge. Whenever i play a game multiplayer (and i've only just barely begun to play this game mp) i like to be an annoying pissant to the bloody end when im getting beaten, because people will notice this and eventually stear towards different targets if they have the choice. Just make sure the situation is completely hopeless before you do this.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He was referring to the person called Gateway - not the spell.

Re: I need suggestions ... Ulm against Mictlan...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They only have 8 protection, so it will work quite well.