Favorite assassin
 

I really like assassins. I used to think the R'lyeh Starspawn was worthless after paralyze was fixed, but he's now my favorite. Stick a lifelong protection on him and he's great (admittedly a bit hard to come by for R'lyeh - probably a blood-1 Random Starspawn or Sage with a ring of sorcery and wizardry/empowerment to get to blood-3). Unlike the other assassins he has the luxury of being able to paralyze anything the imps can't take care of themselves. He also has the flexibility of being able to throw on resist magic, body ethereal, personal luck, astral shield, etc., as needed. Personally, I've been using Resist Magic, Body Ethereal, Fire, but that can be changed up if you know what you'll likely be facing.

Actually, my favorite assassin is an Earth Elemental, but that doesn't really count http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Question 1) If someone has flying bodyguards, will they fly at the assassin or stay by the commander? My guess is that they'd stay by the commander unless the assassin started firing at him, but I haven't seen flying bodyguards in a while.

Question 2) What's your favorite assassin?

Re: Favorite assassin
 

Favorite assassin? Mictlan's Lord of Night pretender. Read a thread a while back about him being able to assassinate and tried him out, pretty damn sweet and he brings two fiends into the assassination with him too. Perhaps a dubious use of a pretender but I'd rather see it as an extra tool.

[ May 07, 2004, 14:05: Message edited by: Anglachel ]

Re: Favorite assassin
 

My favourite type of assasin is a Vampire Count with a black heart.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

I'm fond of battlefield assassinations via mass-casting Ghost Riders when my Astral Windows or spies tell me a hapless AI pretender is out in the middle of a field away from a castle. Seriously, 'tho, Ethereal Stalkers are pretty nice if you can get them, albeit Chuzrael the Abysian Demonbred Slayer is much more entertaining.
A Heliophagus with a Black Heart and decent kit can also be unusually menacing, although not too stealthy IIRC. Black Hearts on high-stealth Glamour units could make for nigh-undetectable ones.
And if you allow mods... the Ashikagan Jonin, which I'm fond of prophetizing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Favorite assassin
 

I like Succubi, since occasionally I get something interesting and useful besides just a dead enemy.

How about a druid scripted to cast Swarm, just for grins? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats why I like Pandemoniums. 2 blood so they can cast "hellbind". If it works then you get a combat right after that of the commander fighting his own troops. If he was the Last commander then you watch his troops rout from him. You get the province and any equip the commander had.

Pans and Lord of the Hunt do almost the same thing. A combat follows the assassination as Maenads try to take the province. If you are using assassination for gaining provinces its at least TWICE as fast.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

Nice techniques, Gandalf! Very nice... Hmm. So, if you wander through enemy provinces generating Maenads, the generated ones attack the province with no leader, and don't rout for having no leader?

What happens if you have a stealthy commander leading stealthy units, and that commander dies for some reason (such as a failed assassination)?

PvK

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They rout also. But Maenads have a high morale. And even if both sides rout you know its safe to attack with the assassin.

I forgot to mention, even if there are more commanders there the maenad attack is a nice way to look at who is left for assassination. Sometimes my response is "oops" and move on.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm I dont remember. I think they are lost as if they had routed to an unowned province.

[ May 07, 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Favorite assassin
 

1. I would have thought they'd fly at the assassin, since most bodyguards immediately attack an assassin. But I have not tested this.

2. My favorite is a slayer, since he actually has easy access to a lifelong protection (my very favorite assassin tool for months now) as well as a Rod of Incineration, my second favorite tool. He is also a bit more robust than the Star Child. But then again, Abysia is my favorite nation, and I suck at Ryleh, so I may be biased. A star child is certainly much more flexible than a slayer, since it can do anything a slayer can plus is a mage plus has mind bLast. But my slayer has stayed alive with a few HPs left where a Star Child would have been long since killed.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

Only assassin assassins? no built ones? I guess I still like Ctis with the slings and the magic

But built, I love Pangaen assassins. Pans, Pandemoniacs, and the Lord of the Hunt

Re: Favorite assassin
 

Gandalf, does the Heart (the item which makes you an assassin, forget exact name) give you a Chest Wound?

Re: Favorite assassin
 

yes

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh...what difference does it make if Maenads have high morale, if they automatically rout due to lack of commander?

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh...what difference does it make if Maenads have high morale, if they automatically rout due to lack of commander? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont know. But they do seem to stick around long enough to "win" the province fairly often when both sides are routing. Maybe its just luck of the roll and is in reality 50/50. Or maybe there is a difference in the timing of rout for attacker and defender. They just never struck me as starting their rout as early as the other side. Some tester could whip up something on a mini map and tell us.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

Ok, sent an Earth Elemental against an Arch Mage and two raptors. The raptors do indeed fly at the assassin instead of staying close to the target. Unfortunately, two raptors don't do so well against an Earth Elemental.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh...what difference does it make if Maenads have high morale, if they automatically rout due to lack of commander? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont know. But they do seem to stick around long enough to "win" the province fairly often when both sides are routing. Maybe its just luck of the roll and is in reality 50/50. Or maybe there is a difference in the timing of rout for attacker and defender. They just never struck me as starting their rout as early as the other side. Some tester could whip up something on a mini map and tell us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why would the other side rout? I can understand that they'd have a chance to win if neither side had a commander, but all that takes is 1 province defense. Who doesn't spend 1 gold on that? If I get really lazy sometimes I'll forget to buy at least 1 province defense, but there's no good excuse for not doing so.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does this mean that there is some way to gain control of the Lord of the Hunt (the one that appears from Wild Hunt, I am assuming you mean)

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, I think I know why, then: Firstly, Maenads are not gifted with any particularly high mobility. They move at about the same rate as any other human. Secondly, the defender moves first, so he begins his rout first. Since he begins first, assuming an equal movement rate, he will finish first.

Of course, you have to wonder why he has units just lying around in the province, yet can't be bothered to purchase a single point of PD.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I stopped using Star Children as assasins shortly after the patch... I was losing too many to indie commanders. Which seemed to indicate that I was better off using their research ability back home...

However, your post makes me think that in the mid to late game (when you're doing ok with research). I might start using them against mein enemies.

My personal fave equipment for the Star Child is:

Rune Smasher, Astral Skullcap, Boots of Quickness, Crystal Coin, Spell Focus

Then scripted to Soul Slay.

But Gandalf's tactics make me think that it would probably be fun to give him some astral pearls and script him to (Enslave Mind)(Returning)

EDIT: Oh wait... then the enslaved commander would just flee... good against a lone SC with midling MR, thanks to the penetration bonus perhaps.

[ May 08, 2004, 06:24: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I stopped using Star Children as assasins shortly after the patch... I was losing too many to indie commanders. Which seemed to indicate that I was better off using their research ability back home...

However, your post makes me think that in the mid to late game (when you're doing ok with research). I might start using them against mein enemies.

My personal fave equipment for the Star Child is:

Rune Smasher, Astral Skullcap, Boots of Quickness, Crystal Coin, Spell Focus

Then scripted to Soul Slay.

But Gandalf's tactics make me think that it would probably be fun to give him some astral pearls and script him to (Enslave Mind)(Returning)

EDIT: Oh wait... then the enslaved commander would just flee... good against a lone SC with midling MR, thanks to the penetration bonus perhaps. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's nice setup but it means a lot of gems spend on single assasin. And all it would take do defeat him would be to have few decent bodygards, who would either distract assasin long enough for the main commader unit to kill it, though magic or melee, or who could overwhelm him if they can get to him quickly enough, preventing him from furter casting (flying or fast units).

Personally I like to have my assasins either very cheap (no items, or few cheap ones) or very expensive (with very good battle gear designed to kill some specific and amportant target). But perhaps it's just me.

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I stopped using Star Children as assasins shortly after the patch... I was losing too many to indie commanders. Which seemed to indicate that I was better off using their research ability back home...

However, your post makes me think that in the mid to late game (when you're doing ok with research). I might start using them against mein enemies.

My personal fave equipment for the Star Child is:

Rune Smasher, Astral Skullcap, Boots of Quickness, Crystal Coin, Spell Focus

Then scripted to Soul Slay.

But Gandalf's tactics make me think that it would probably be fun to give him some astral pearls and script him to (Enslave Mind)(Returning)

EDIT: Oh wait... then the enslaved commander would just flee... good against a lone SC with midling MR, thanks to the penetration bonus perhaps. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's nice setup but it means a lot of gems spend on single assasin. And all it would take do defeat him would be to have few decent bodygards, who would either distract assasin long enough for the main commader unit to kill it, though magic or melee, or who could overwhelm him if they can get to him quickly enough, preventing him from furter casting (flying or fast units).

Personally I like to have my assasins either very cheap (no items, or few cheap ones) or very expensive (with very good battle gear designed to kill some specific and amportant target). But perhaps it's just me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, you're right... I prefer the same thing, however the Star Child has become much less effective as a "cheap" assasin since paralyze was fixed... I've only played around with the above setup in SP games, and while it's fun, I don't think it's "competative"(because of the gem investment on a fragile unit).

With the increased astral, however, they can Telport and Return... so you could script them with Returning after a few castings, so that they're not that vulnerable... and just Teleport them back near the front afterwards.

Yossar's suggestion of Lifelong Protection is obviously superior in many regards, but not very achievable for most R'lyeh players I think.

I'm basically just trying to figure out the best way to use them as assasins in the mid to late game... and this is what I've always played around with, but never used seriously.

I would think that a non-flying SC with medium MR could be brought down with lille risk, given the above equipment, with: (Soul Slay)(Soul Slay) (Soul Slay) (Returning).

Re: Favorite assassin
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How long's it take a mounted commander to get over? 2 turns? Although most people don't tend to use mounted commanders all that much.

What about just sticking a skullface on one? Not quite as effective as lifelong protection, especially against mages, but still pretty good and much easier to obtain (A Death random on a mage or priest with a ring of sorcery and a staff of skulls. If you're really lucky you could even get a mage with Death 2). Then you could even throw on an elemental armor, cast resist magic, and not have to worry about mages much. Not sure what you'd script, though. Resist magic, raise skeletons X4, fire? Maybe skip resist magic since you already start with 20. You could throw on an AMA if you're really worried about it.

The funny thing about casting Body Ethereal with Lifelong Protection on is that he seems to always cast it on an imp or two. Not exactly what I wanted but usually actually works out really well.