How stealth really work ?
 

Hi,

in my continuos efford to find information to create a good newbie guide I found that I totally lack precise information about scouts, spy and possibility to detect hidden enemies/armies so:

1. Which kind of imprvement a scouts/spy gives on informations about enemies in a provinces ? I have found that normal informations are between 50% and 200% accurate ... what about informations from a scout and/or a spy ?

2. How Stealth works ? Which is the difference between Stelath 0 and Stealth 30 ? How does patrolling and PD works in catching hidden enemies ?

3. Which is the formula that determinates if two army meet each other ?

thank you any one could help me
Liga

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm I use stealth alot but I dont tend to try and figure out how it works. I know spys give more exact info.

Quote:

2. How Stealth works ? Which is the difference between Stelath 0 and Stealth 30 ? How does patrolling and PD works in catching hidden enemies ?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Almost everything in this game has some random dice-roll added to it. So I think thats your base chance, then a random, for getting caught.
If I remember fight, defence over 20 starts looking for sneaking enemy in that province.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think thats random. Magic goes before movement so if one of the armies was "magicked" in then they would go first. Otherwise I dont think there is a way to know who goes first. Hmmm if one army is standing there I dont remember who goes first defender or attacker.

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Defence over 10 patrols for sneaking enemies.

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

there must be an OE die roll, as my (random event generated) PD 11 once discovered the +25 stealth abyssian slayer hero wandering through.

[ May 14, 2004, 16:17: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I could be wrong but I think that a "Scout" is just a stealthy unit that most nations are capable of building. I don't think it is inherently any better at revealing informaiton about enemy provinces than any other stealthy unit, like say, a Vanjarl, or a Friar. Spies, on the other hand, have a distinct special ability.

I've never tried to figure it out exactly, but my impression has been that spies are no better than scouts at determining how many regular units are in their province. (They're both reasonably good at it.) But I've had spies detect stealthy units, which I don't think I have seen scouts do. And unlike scouts, spies display the full stats for the province that they are in, including revealed magic sites.

[ May 14, 2004, 16:30: Message edited by: Vynd ]

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

All sneaking units give reports on the province they enter. Scouts are not particulary good at this, but spies are. They give you more accurate info on numbers, more info on commanders and specials, and reveal sites. They are also less likely to be detected (not by being spies, but because they have a higher stealth value than most scouts).

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are Friars supposed to be worse than scouts at giving information? I recall from my Marignon game that it seemed I was getting almost no province information from the friars I had preaching in enemy territory.

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I'm under the impression that the base number of patrolling units get a penalty equal to the stealth value of the sneaking unit.

The formula could be :

chance to get caught:

# of patrolling units + # of sneaking units - sneaking value of worse sneaking unit - 10

-10 because we know that the chance only trigger for 10 units and more.

IMO the formula is more complex anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ May 15, 2004, 06:31: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

So the only benefit of scouts compared to other stealthy units is that they're cheap?

Is there a way to tell what units (that aren't named "Spy") have the spy ability? IIRC Bards have it too, but who else? Is there an icon for it now, or do you just have to sneak them into enemy territory and see if they get the Incite Unrest order?

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I think it says "spy" in the description text, but there is no icon yet.

PvK

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">According to the manual, p.11, provincial defense "is less efficient than a patrolling commander with even a small army". So PD could have a penalty too...

Cheers

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

Does multiple spies in the same area provide more accurate description? I always play the game with indep9 so getting good estimates on enemy forces is high priority.

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I dont think that more spies/scouts give you more accurate information, but that is only judging from my own experience not looking at any code.

Usually, the word "spy" appears in some form of the flavor text to let you know that this unit is a spy: examples include the Bard, the Consort and the Ear of the Lord. In general, spies have better stealth than scouts, so that should be a giveaway too. (Scouts have stealth +0, while spies usually have around stealth +20 or more except the Ear who has +10 IIRC. In any case, spies have more than +0 unless I am mistaken; units with Glamour dont count, and I dont think there is a Glamour-ed spy. The usual suspects (Van, Man-Tuatha) don't have spies.)

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I am resurrecting an old thread, yes, but are there any independent/summonable/mercenary spies around?

I guess this might be hard to tell, since there is no icon for it, but am I correctly assuming that a unit is a spy if and only if it may instill uprisings?

Is it true that there is no glamoured spy? Why then is glamour a good thing? (I've found Illusionists - which currently seem pretty useless for me being Caelum...)

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

I think there are only two stealthy mercenary Groups, those wolfboys (although I might mix them up with Dom 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif), and the master assassin.

I think there is an indy recruitable unit called spy, but that's about it.

Re: How stealth really work ?
 

Also, there's an assassin you can get from a random event, Im not sure if he is a spy though, I havent checked =P