New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Hello all! A few weeks ago somebody posted a thread asking about a map for the Forgotten Realms setting (also known as Faerun) and if anybody had created one. I took it upon myself to do that, and the fruits of that labor are now available for all.

The map is a really huge one, with 424 provinces and all of the nations on the map. I've tried to make the map as faithfully to the FR setting as is possible within the framework of Dominions, a task that was surprisingly easy.

A brief overview:

All nations start from fixed special start locations determined by what their role in the world is according to my vision of what made the most sense, and each nation has plenty of expansion options.

The map contains a lot of special provinces which will have strategic and or other significant value (e.g. hard to find mages you can recruit). Most of these special provinces are also heavily defended, so beware of trying with too few forces. If the defenses are not heavy, it might be the special feature is thematic (e.g. places like Spider Swamp, Lizard Marsh or Spiderhaunt Peaks).

Anyways, this info and everything else that is relevant can be found in the readme.txt file that is included in the zip along with the map and tga files. Currently it can be found at Gandalf Parker's site in the location www.dom2minions.com/~tmpspace, as Faerun.zip. He will move it elsewhere when he deems it fit, and it is clear that there is no more need for major patches to the map file. I don't expect much more than minor tweaks to be necessary, as terrains and borders should be all okay. The map isn't playtested, though, so something can always come up.

Now, get cracking, there's a whole world waiting for you to explore it!

You can send any feedback you want to give to esko_halttunen@yahoo.com.

Edi

[ May 21, 2004, 20:17: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I would love to try your map, but the link you provided is not working.

Edit: Never mind, it seems to be working now.

[ May 21, 2004, 20:22: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah I caught it. Had a comma at the end of the link

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

THANKS EDI !! This is larger then the world map from Illwinter... you are the new champ !

Defintely looking forward to trying this map !

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

It was I that posted asking if there was one, or if anyone was doing one. And thank you very much. =)

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Hopefully with Dominions_III gamers will have even larger maps which can be made. Right now I believe the limitation is 500 provinces.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

The problem with both maps is that the actual sane limit on provinces is less than the maximum hardcoded limit: The Nation Ovwrview display will go nuts if you have too many provinces, and become truncated, at a point which falls short of the actual, hardcoded province max.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ahhh another giant map lover. I was beginning to get convinced that I was alone but my logs show that the Epic maps (500 province) get downloaded the most from my site. www.dom2minions.com

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Definitely Huge Maps are the best!

If you ever owned an Amiga computer and played Settlers_2 you might have been able to see the World-Size_8 maps. Gamers would build their civilization for a few days and not run into any opponents. (days as in human days... where I was playing 5 hours a day.)

[ May 21, 2004, 23:43: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Thanks, Daynarr. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The no borders thing is out of necessity. There are so many ways of defining what areas belong to which province and how to draw the borders that it was just not viable to do it. Besides, I'd still be drawing them on the map if I had done it that way and the project would never have gotten finished.

Besides, the current tga file is easier to modify now. If you want a map with fewer provinces, just fill in the white pixels and put new ones where you want them and you'll get a whole different map. In fact, I might be inclined to do one if time permits and there is interest for one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The reason why this one is so huge is that I'm a fan of gigantic maps myself, and of the Forgotten Realms as well, so it was rather natural to go for an epic map.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

After playing it a while I must say its quite nice map. The map looks more like a military then fantasy map so it gives you more “strategic” then “cartoonish” feeling – I like strategic better but I guess not everyone does. No borders are an interesting change but it fits the map style and I like it so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Overall, I'm having fun playing on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I'm not a fan of huge maps (because I don't have the focus / concentration / yearning for massive amounts of micromanagement for huge games), but this one does look like it'd be a lot of fun. Started a game as Pangaea, running my harpy scouts over to likely looking places of power - Zhentil Keep, etc.

Nice job with the places of power especially. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This map does highlight the need for the ability to change the color of the lines for the "neighbors" filter - both because there are no real boundary indications in the source map, and because the current color blends in with the map.

(And actually, to be able to have a small displayed icon for the central point of all provinces would be great too, and not just for this map - Urgaea, among others, has some provinces that are difficult to click on because of irregular shapes.)

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I somehow don't think that Dominions has any concept of a province's "shape". As far as Dominions is concerned, the province you're clicking on is the white dot that's closest to where you've clicked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Edi,

that is one nice looking map! Kudos.

If you want another project ( ahem ) a map that look that great with fewer provinces would be awesome!

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Yes, I think I can do that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Could take a while, though, because I've got other projects under construction (a comprehensive unit attributes sheet modelled after the existing one but more complete and with all independent units etc in it as well) and other stuff not related to Dom2. I'll see if I'll get started next week, though, because modifying the existing Faerun.tga will be a snap, all the hard work has already been done.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

This map was great! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

On the white pixels on this map: I've marked them all into the targa file with a four-point star shape, i.e. the province pixels are surrounded above, below and on both sides by pixels that are significantly darker than the surrounding ones if the background is light. In forest and many mountain provinces this was not necessary as the surrounding pixels were so dark that the white pixel stood out on its own. Just so everyone who has a mind to modify the map knows. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


In other news, the first bug found on this map after upload was a neighbor problem that I discovered today while using it for test purposes on another project of mine.

The provinces 119 and 144 should be neighbors, but apparently when I changed the name of province 119 at one point in the editing process (I remember doing it), it nixed the neighbor connection.

No use updating the map file on the server yet, so just add the line
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">into the section where neighbors are assigned to fix it.

Post any other bugs you find in the map file in this thread and I'll fix them as they crop up. After we've got a few, we can update it to Gandalf's server.

I'll get to work on the smaller (as in fewer provinces) Faerun map next week, so the fans of smaller maps can also get a Version more to their liking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Isnt this map the full view of 6 maps together? In keeping with the theme maybe you could do the 6 as seperates? I think one is all land and one is almost all water but there is a niche I think for maps like that.

[ May 23, 2004, 20:50: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I found a bug where if C'Tis starts with more then one province he could start with an extra fort and magic sites. Apparently the starting location of C'Tis is right next to one of those big powerful provinces.

As a result this prevents human players from playing C'Tis in a multiplayer game where players have more then one starting province because the game could be seriously unbalanced.

[ May 23, 2004, 21:52: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I somehow don't think that Dominions has any concept of a province's "shape". As far as Dominions is concerned, the province you're clicking on is the white dot that's closest to where you've clicked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly why an icon showing the nominal white dot should be available - because from the player's view of a map that has borders displayed, finding the invisible white dot for a province can be an exercise in frustration.

This is especially true with respect to flying units, because you can't even readily follow the neighbors filter then. Small provinces (as many are on this map) excerbarate the issue, which certainly isn't a fault of the map.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. This is a double flaw, I think. On the one paw, starting with multiple provinces may give C'tis one (or even two) extra castles with gem income.

But on the other paw - with a single starting province, 2 of C'tis's four neighbors are special Uber Provinces. With even a slight amount of bad luck on the other two (knights and crossbows, say, or one of the tougher amazon tribes), C'tis can have a pretty rough start with nowhere to expand.

Edit : And actually, C'tis isn't the only one that can start with multiple fortresses if it starts with more than 1 province. Pangaea has Hellgate Keep for a neighbor and can start with it; others may as well. Possibly the "solution" is to play with only 1 start province per nation, although C'Tis having 2 uber-neighbors out of 4 still seems to beg correction.

[ May 24, 2004, 02:53: Message edited by: Cainehill ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

The several starting provinces thing is, I think, not a map bug, but a game bug. I've noticed that no matter how many #nostart X lines you have for provinces, it will not prevent the game from assigning those provinces to a nation at the beginning if more than one starting province is specified, and I find this really annoying.

I don't think C'tis starting next to two special provinces is that much of a problem as such, as one of those was a sea province and I just don't see the lizards expanding into the water that quickly.


Gandalf, no use doing the separate maps, those would be too limited. Easier to just wipe the province pixels from the big one and then put them in again but making larger geographical regions (such as the whole of High Forest etc) into a single province, that will radically cut down on the number of provinces and still give a better map, I would think. Making maps of the single sections would be good for maps with limited number of nations, but I'm not going to start editing them separately. The targa files need a lot of work and hunting down the stray white pixels is a bloody pain in the arse, so I'll pass, thanks.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Guys,

Why isn't there a sticky thread about maps ?

EDIT : and I forgot to say Thanks for the Forgotten Realms map. Nice job.

[ May 24, 2004, 14:19: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

This is an awesome map, really nice, thank you very much.
I am at work right now but I'm going to download and try it when I get home (I have just downloaded it here to take a look).

/Off-topic
Dominions is a great strategy game, for me the best since Master of Magic. I would like my heroes to be more "durable" in battle though ;-).

Oh, and hello everyone, since i am new around here.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Very nice map! I am playing it as Vanheim, and the starting location could not have been chosen better.

Thanks!

[ May 25, 2004, 00:41: Message edited by: Yvelina ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

The real problem of this map are the combo of:

fixed sites
fixed start location

This will turn down some aspects of the game like "Ah I know I've to arcane probe this province because I know there's the uberastral site", and ppl know at which provinces rush in early game.

It's possible to have a non fixed startprov map edition? SO we can MP it ... well you'll know where sites are but, at least you start random!

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To prevent C'Tis from having a large advantage in the beginning shouldn't you move the powerful fortress with gems ??

Otherwise the map is seriously unbalanced for multiplayer when C'Tis gets this as one of his starting provinces.
+1 for most gem types, an extra fortress and +220 gold as a starting province is way too huge of a bonus to get for day_1.

[ May 25, 2004, 01:41: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I think the fixed sites are automatically visible in the provinces when you take them - no need to probe.

And it isn't just C'tis - as I mentioned, at least one other nation has an Uber-Province with fortress next door also.

Given the way he wants his map (and it seems pretty nice and fun change of pace), it's more reasonable to simply set starting provinces to the default 1 when using the map, don't you think?

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

NTJedi, this map was made to be thematic to the world it represents, so the special provinces are exactly where they are supposed to be. This is one of those maps that should be started with the default one province, and it doesn't slow the beginning down too much, I should think.

If there is enough interest, I can provide a map file without the special start locations just for non-thematic multiplayer play. But let's see what happens when I do the smaller Version with fewer provinces first.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, they are. Or are they? Well, you people ponder that...

Just remember, the rewards are supposed to be proportionate to how tough the garrison is...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Pangaea starts almost right next to Hellgate Keep, which is without question the most ridiculously overpowered province on the map, and if they get that at the start, it's automatic game over for everyone else.

Man starts with Myth Drannor as neighbor, and that province isn't iirc anything to wrinle your nose at either.

Abysia has Calimport next to it, Vanheim has Sea of Moonshae right next door and and Myrloch Vale one province away.

Just use 1 starting province, I can't help the game feature that ignores the #nostart lines in the map file. I thought it wouldn't, but I was mistaken.

Edi

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Im not sure if this is worth fixing. This is about a 3-start province setting? If it cant be fixed for a 9-province start for 17 nations, then Id feel it just needs to be one of the quirks of this map. The map has a great feel and I wouldnt want that watered down. There are other (ugly, less interesting) maps that size available if people want vanilla starts.

-- www.dom2minions.com

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It could be one of the quirks in the map... but anyone playing C'Tis has a huge advantage. Starting a game with a province which has +220 gold and +1 for most gem types is not some small advantage to get on day_1.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I can easily do a multi-province start Version of the map for three or four provinces per nation, but no more than that really. I can just hard code them into the map file and that should take care of that. It'll take all of ten minutes to do, so I can have it ready tomorrow. That way the special provinces will stay independent and you'll actually have to take them out before you can enjoy the spoils.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How about simply stating that map should be played with 1 starting province?

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Anyone who plays with more then 1 starting province AND gets lucky to get that province as starting one. I think Gandalf already said it, play with 1 starting province.

[ May 25, 2004, 22:17: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What Daynarr has mentioned is the balanced way to play the map right now for a multiplayer game. The first game I started my brother was playing C'Tis and got that fortress and bonus gems as a starting province. His gold and gems from that one province was more then all three of my starting provinces.

In my opinion it would be okay for a computer opponent to get this extra advantage. However human players should start near the same starting level... unless one of them is a newbie player.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Well, the basic map should be played with just one starting province.

However, there is now also a multi-province quickstart Version that gives everyone except Abysia 4 start provinces (home +3 extra). Abysia gets just two extra ones, but it also gets an extra non-national commander and a couple of holy units that should be tough enough to compensate and nicely beef up its starting forces but not give an unfair advantage. As soon as Gandalf gets around to reading his email and uploading the map file to his server, you should have that available too.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Unfortunately, C'Tis (and others) can still get a hefty chunk of essentially free gold income by besieging the fortified indie provinces with, for example, a single scout. The besieger gets province income AND can set the tax rate, while the owner of the castle gets only administrative income - something that I learned the hard way in my first map project.

Let's hope that in the future there will be a command to set indie troops on patrol... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes... there should be a way of setting a battle for the province and a seperate battle for the castle.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Ah, well, that changes things somewhat. I'm going to need to modify the map file to just eliminate the fortifications then. At least for some places, like the province next to C'tis's starting location. Have to wait for another day though, I'm too tired to do that right now.

Edi

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

In the meantime, I'd prolly be content with indies set to be always on patrol mode... and if/when they'd lose to a superior force, the survivors would retreat to the castle and defend it normally.

Perpetual patrolling would have the added bonus of making it harder to defeat indies by assassinating the commanders.

The downside, as someone pointed out, would be some lost population if something generates unrest in the province. IMHO it wouldn't be a big issue though, merely a drop in the sea of all these pop-destroying events. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That definitely sounds like a great solution as well.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Pop-killing could be reduced if the indy provinces were all considered to be tax-0 while independent. It's not like they have economies and pay for maintenance, recruitment, PD or buildings, right?

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but have you
considered all the implications? Scouting would
become much harder. Eighty units on patrol, even
groundpounders, will have a pretty good chance of
revealing and killing scouts. This will
effectively kill scouting for many nations.

[ May 27, 2004, 17:50: Message edited by: Tuidjy ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Yeah, I thought of that too - ordinary scouts would have a harder time. Patrolling indies would also make high-stealth units, like Spies, more valuable, and not all nations have access to them.

I guess it's just weighing the pros versus the cons, then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Actually, I believe that what we need are map commands to set indie defenders on patrol, defend or random (changes with each game). These commands could be global (for all provinces) and local for each province specific where local would overwrite global. For example, you set all indies on map to random with global command, and then chose provinces with castles and set defenders in them to patrol with local.

Local command in this case means that each group of units in province can be set to defend, patrol or random. That way a mapmaker can assign 3 Groups of defenders to patrol around castle, and several Groups of units to defend the castle if patrollers get beaten.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

Hmmm I dont know about random. If anyone has played some of my random maps you will quickly see the problem. I think my maps suffer most from this. Scattered castles owned by independents are way too nice for the player. I can take the province with a scout. Get instant view and watch of all the provinces around it. And I can safely tax it to death if its somewhere that the AI is likely to reach before me. And if I do get near one I can move troops thru that province without taking the castle. If I get pushed back I just retreat and leave the AI trying to seige.

And AI's wont use that tactic. A huge AI army will be stopped by a castle until its taken.

Hmmm of all the suggestions I think a command of #patrol and #defend which can follow the #commander assigning command would be best. With the default changed to patrol instead of defend.

As to what that will do to spying and scouting, I think thats livable. If the indies are set to 9 then they are supposed to represent more of a game problem. Especially if its obviously a large and wealthy province. I should probably wait for hard numbers though before judging that one. At what Indie setting do enough indies show up to make scouts worthless?

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, I agree! If some indies are manually set
on patrol, all is good... Scouts do have it
too easy in indie provinces. I was just afraid
that if all indies were patrolling, scouting
for some nations would be impossible.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not all provinces have to have patrolling units... only the provinces which have been specified by whoever developed the map.

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was reffering to random as randomly assigned to either patrol or defense. Not randomly placing castles or anything else. That way some provinces will be pattroled by independents and some wont, it will be on player to find out which.

Edit: stupid typo.

[ May 27, 2004, 21:20: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: New Map: Faerun - The Forgotten Realms
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I knew that. But I dont think the chance of castles without patrol is worth having in a game. Oh well it will be up to the map maker I guess if it shows up.

It may be troublesome to do also. Actually if it was only defend and patrol there would still be an option for random as an external program the way I do it now.