Crusader MoD
 

Download the MoD

In case of suggestions, bugs, or other stuff, email me.

cohen@libero.it

Another warning, since I'm Italian, the path saved in the zip is corrispondant to an Italian Windows. So probably you've to choose the path manually.

The bug of the missing files should be fixed now.

[ June 12, 2004, 11:01: Message edited by: Cohen ]

Re: Crusader MoD
 

I think it will take some time - they do not update their website every day.

What also would help is if the mod is known.

So present it here - open a new thread.
Say what it does, and why.
Put up a download so everyone can test it - Illwinter will most likely not distribute a completly untested mod.

If you don't have webspace available, just ask. Here are a lot of folks who would be glad to help out.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

I haven't any webspace.

It's a chivalric mod about crusaders.
They've 2 sacred special pretenders, with a good starting magic and dominion, but they lack of national mages (only F1 or E1). But they can recruit priest lvl 5.
They've 2 national heroes, and this mod substitutes Jotunheim.

They've many knights with Awe, and sacred, cheap for their stats, but resource expensive.

They start with a 3 different gem type starting income (3 gems, 1 astral 1 fire 1 earth), a forge and res bonus in capitol.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would gladly host any mod you make. Just write me; if the mod is not extremly big you could send it in an email (a working one is on my homepage on the about page)

I would offer an upload interface, but setting up webdav in windows is beyond my meagre windowsskill. If you're using linux, drop me a note, and I'll create an upload space for you.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Thanks!

I'll send you a mail with the mod.

About Linux, I'm a windows user ... some years ago I was totally unable to install on a partition a SuSe 6.2 ...

Re: Crusader MoD
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1) Anytime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
2) It should be here Crusader mod It's also link from the "Links" section on my homepage.
3) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I started using linux with SuSE 7.2... just bought a harddisk and installed it there. It was like a dream come true... it put the fun back into computing for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Now I'm running 3 Gentoo boxes and loving it. The server hasn't been booted in over 2 monts now :-)

Re: Crusader MoD
 

The Mod crashes in god creation. Phoenix.tga files are missing.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Oks ...

I'll rezip that stuff and resend to Mose.
Effectively the zip jumped from 50kb to 123 kb ...
Probably something were missing.

[ June 12, 2004, 10:10: Message edited by: Cohen ]

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Hi Cohen,

I really like the idea of this mod. It is currently extremely overpowered in several ways, though. You don't even need magic because many of these guys are SC's already.

Yes the images are mostly (but not all) duplicated in the patch under different path names.

One branch is under the Italian "Programmi" directory, which isn't right even for Italians, because they could install D2 under \giocchi or whatever.

All the images should be under /crusaders, and the user should install to his D2/mods directory, wherever that is.

There is a bug with the Black Knight. It was really funny though reading about the Phoenix Knight and how rightous he is. Then I read about the Black Knight and how rightous he is. Then I moved on to the third knight choice shown for pretender god and read "The Bog Mummy... etc."

I chose the actual Black Knight, and when I started my test game, was amused to find my pretender named The Black Knight appearing as a Dracolich in dragon form! He can change shape into the Black Knight however.

(BTW, I also got Erectus the Ermorian Velite with a horror helmet as a starting unit - but that's not your mod's fault - I used the Poke in the Eye map for my test! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

The resource costs are not following the Dominions 2 formulas. Some of the units seemed low in resource cost compared to units in the game. Someone has made a table of the resources for each item. However if you want to not follow those, that's ok (maybe crusaders are so devoted that they bring much of their own equipment).

I don't think the archers costs make them useless, because they aren't only archers, but secondary melee as well.

I think the fighting skills are way too high, and the costs for them too low, for the following units:

Swordmeister (WAY too good, especially for cost - he's as skilled as a Prince of Death pretender! -try Attack 13 and Def 13, and at least double cost)

Foot Knight skills are fine, but as an elite holy unit, cost should probably be higher - more like 30-40 gold)

Teutonic Knight - I would try to balance this against Black Templars from Iron Faith Ulm, which is essentially what these are. As you have them now, they are better than Ulm heroes (!) but are 50-gold units!

Brother of the Sword - Same comments as Teutonic Knight, but worse with magic sword etc. Their description says they have low magic resistance, but like the others, they have a 15 (very high!)

Templar Knight - Same comments as Teutonic Knight, but worse with fire immunity etc.

Hospitalier Knight - Same comments as Teutonic Knight, but worse with healing etc.

Hospitalier Meister - Lots of abilities combined there. I'd have him at 150 gold even if he just had the Earth 1 and attack/defense skills at 11 (not 15!) and Holy 2-3, and no recuperation, etc. If he should have all those abilities, he should cost a lot more if he is going to be balanced. I would expect this guy to mainly be used at home forging some items, anyway, rather than being used for his other abilities.

Hospitalier Keeper - Skills and costs are closer to balanced, if he didn't have Awe +3 or recuperation.

Teuton Commander - Attack and Defense 15 is PoD level...

Teuton Hochmeister - Skills at 17 are too high compared to other D2 units.

Teuton Standardbearer - Skills are in the mortal range, but should be curved as others.

Swordbearer Meister - Skills at 19 are too high compared to other D2 units. He should cost more than the others, since he has the best fighting skills. Description says he lacks MR but he has 15 (which is very high) like most others.

Ok, so assuming you want a mod that is sort of balanced and in line with existing units, instead of one where it's just "these guys are way better fighters than anyone else", I would apply the following curve to Attack and Defense skills of the existing units:

If you have the current skill at between X and Y and I recommend Z, I write X-Y -> Z. So:

10-11 -> 10
12-13 -> 11
14-15 -> 12
16-17 -> 13
18-19 -> 14
20-21 -> 15
22+ -> 16

Remember that the player can take Fire and Water on the pretender to get blessings for most of these units, dumping more on the skill. This is the way to get your holy uber units in D2, but you've already given them uber stats even before the holy effect.

Also very important are the Fear and Awe effects, which are very powerful effects, especially with most of the units having one or the other built-in.

I think they are thematic but I would limit them to fewer units, and greatly reduce their levels, and greatly increase the cost of the units that have them. Compare to other units like Medusa and Angels (Virtue pretender, even!) - these guys are just knights, so their Awe and Fear levels, if they have any at all, should be a lot less. Note too that the levels can be negative and still have a powerful effect.

Anyway, I really like the mod, and am looking forward to future Versions. I think even if you tone down the skills and abilities and multiply the costs, it will be a nice strong nation like Iron Faith but different (weaker magic, much stronger holy units and priests).

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Notes about the unit equipment.

I don't think having both longbows and crossbows is a problem.

I don't think having kite shields on footmen is a problem either for balance or theme.

I do think the longsword is a little too good. It's better at everything than a broadsword, which doesn't make sense. It's 7 2 1 3 vs. broadsword 6 0 1 2. I would suggest it should be more like either 6 1 0 2, or 7 0 0 2, or 6 0 -1 3, or 7 -1 -1 3.

Crusader sword is both described as a one-hander and a two-hander on different units. You give both 11 2 1 4. Great sword is 9 1 2 3. Halberd is 10 -1 -1 4. Enchanted Sword is 9 2 3 2. I would change it into two swords: Crusader Longsword at 9 1 1 2, and Crusader Greatsword at 11 2 1 3.

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

I would strongly suspect that Cohen's units are all so grossly overpowered because of Cohen's endless griping about SCs. Thus, he wanted to make these guys capable of competing with them....and has created the monsters he loathes so much.

He who fights monsters should be careful that he does not become a monster.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Not sure what the explanation is but yes many of the national units are SC pretender-class.

For the heck and novelty of it, I'm trying out the first several turns of the Poke in the Eye test game I started with it. Using hardly any tactics, no research, no magic items, no missile units. Just buying one of each of the commanders, and throwing them at the enemy. So far I've lost 3 shedu, the Velite commander, and one or two of the ordinary troops, but none of the good crusader units even have an afflcition. Two of the three remaining shedu have afflictions, but hey, I've got a crusader who can heal troops, so afflictions are no problemo. I don't really expect the six moloch province to be much problem, either.

Admittedly, the six shedu aren't part of the mod. I guess I'll retire them and just use the crusader units.

I've slain indy seven pretender units/commanders, and four armies.

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Graphics quibbles:

The spearman looks like he is carrying a pike and shield (spear too long).

The bowman looks like he has a shortbow, not a longbow (maybe just give him a shortbow).

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

I could tone down them, the problem is that they haven't any magic at all ... and Ulmish troops are pretty weak considered that xbows or flagellants with F9 blessing can slaughter them (yes I got about 30 black knights of Ulm slaughtered by the same amount of flagellants, with about 4-5 loses of them).

Another thing I've to wait for is capitol only units, that will cut off massive production of certain commanders/units.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

You write that as if 30 Fire-9 blessed flagellants would not be formidable! They are one of the most destructive units in the game with that blessing! One of Flagellants' main weaknesses is that they can be slaughtered by ranged attacks, such as simple arrows. Practically anything will get smashed if they try to fight 30 blessed flaming flails!

Heavy Cavalry are not just to throw directly into attack against anything. They should be more of a flank force on hold/attack, while a main body of infantry occupy the center, supported by whatever support you have. They can be a decisive shock strike force when they engage the right foe at the right time, but they aren't invulnerable.

The Iron Faith Black Templars are a good baseline for comparison. I think the variety and wide range of abilities will make your Crusaders quite strong, without exaggerating their skill levels or making them cost far less than they should. It may require skill to use them, and they will have some vulnerabilities, but that's a good thing.

Testing them out in some hard battles, I see that the Awe is a massive effect - most units won't even be brave enough to attack them. I think probably none of the units really deserve Awe, and probably not Fear either, comparing to other units in the game - those are really for visibly divine units like angels, dragons, and powerful undead monstrosities.

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

I've raised some cost of the troops, gold and res.
I've reduced the fear caused by knights, and awe too.

Infantry should have already round shield, not kite.

I'm not so sure however about this balance, since they're quite exposed to magic, even with their high magic res, many spells negates or ignore armor.

Most of the best commanders should be capitol only.
And probably templars and hospitaliers knight troops too.

To have an high bless pretenders should take high magic, penalizing scales. And I believe gold and resources are vital for this nation.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Comparing to Iron Faith, which I consider a reasonably-balanced nation with a similar style, I see this comparison (assuming the skills, abilities, costs, resources, and weapons of Crusader are brought into balance as I suggested before):

Iron Faith advantages:
* Better mage/priests with higher magic levels and random picks, and inquisition bonus.
* Better-equipped and cheaper heavy infantry.
* Units with seige bonuses.
* Spy.
* Units with construction bonus.
* Arbalests.
* Has better initial gem income.
* Can use undead pretenders (I assume Crusaders shouldn't have any).

Crusader advantages:
* Huge variety of elite troops and leaders.
* Almost all special troops and leaders are sacred.
* Has a unit which can heal other units.
* Has elite sacred fighter commanders for SC use.
* Has a Holy-5 priest (I think this is unique in Dom 2 - he can Smite without an artifact or being a prophet - this makes up for a lack of magic).
* Units have great morale (probably should also be weakened a bit) and standard-bearers.
* Has fire-immune units.
* Has units with built-in magic weapons and armor.
* Has strong fighting units with recuperation.

So again, I think Crusaders have plenty of good advantages, and may still be over-strong, even if you reduce everything back to normal ability levels. The main weakness is lack of magic flexibility, but they are strong enough that they should be able to conquer themselves some mages and other things they don't have to begin with.

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

For pretenders, I have changed the Jotun unique ones, since if I change other pretender, also other nations have them.

Their National Heroes (only 2 however) are very good and skilled in magic ...

Re: Crusader MoD
 

There is no need to change existing pretenders, you can make new ones and make them unique for your nation. It's quite simple really. There is avatar mod on Illwinter site that has lots of special pretenders, so you can use it to see how it's done.

Btw. nice effort! Just solve some balance issues (mentioned already) and you are all set.

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Just looked at the mod, some changes/corrections needed :
Bugs
- All tgas are duplicated in the zip, once with path from mods only (ie /Crusader), another with full path ("Program Files/etc but in Finnish ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
- Ambidextrous is incorrectly spelled "ambidextrUOs" and should'nt work

Balance
- Footmen shouldn't be given Kite shields
- Getting Long bows and crossbowmen seems overdone IMHO. Anyway the armored LBs are too resource intensive to be useful as archers ...
- The nation looks quite close to Ulm, but with much better priests . Maybe they should also get Resources bonuses...
- Magic is very poor, I'm not sure they should fare better than basic Ulm after the few first turns... But well this is only intuition, I have to play them and test ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Crusader MoD
 

15 MR is exposed to magic?

You seem to have some very strong views about balance in Dominions. The best Crusader national units are some of the best units in the game here, and are available from turn one. Consider if the player takes a rainbow mage with Crusaders. He has no need at all for an SC pretender, because he can hire one SC leader and a few near-SC units per turn (5-10 of which can be bodyguards for the RB mage). The RB can site search and make items to multiply the power of the holy knights.

If you want to de-emphasize magic against troops, making one nation which can simply hire the best units in the game (including comparing to late-game magic summons!) isn't an effective way to do it. That just creates one super-unbalanced nation.

What I'd suggest to accomplish that, would be to use High research cost and a low site frequency, and/or to make/use another mod that increases the power requirements and costs of the good and powerful spells. I was sort of thinking of doing one myself, not because I think it's necessary, but because I think it would be an interesting variation.

PvK

[ June 13, 2004, 00:22: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Crusader MoD
 

The PD is currently a Swordsman (who aren't usually leaders) as the leader, and Foot Knights as the regular troops for PD < 20. To be in line with other PD, I would suggest Spearmen with a Landkomtur as leader. Maybe have Foot Knights as the troop type for PD 20+.

BTW, my force of about nine Crusader knights just wiped out a Soul Gate army of 150 or so without getting hurt at all. Fatigue on some guys got up to about 30. We did end up getting a lot of cursed units from SG pretender casting Anathema, though, so we may have to send some back for healing at some point...

PvK

Re: Crusader MoD
 

The real problem is the capitol only unit, that I've to wait for site modding, or to replace Jotun capitol only troops, but dunno if it works, how is coded the site.

I'll change PD, since footmen should be the PD, no knight troops.
Dunno if put Archer + (20+)Swordman
or Spearmen + (20+)Xbowmen

They are exposed to elemental magic.
High MR is due to resist against charm, and such things. They're fanatics religious, well suited for ermor fighting.

There should be some inquisitors too when it will become avaiable. (bishop and arch-bishop)

Re: Crusader MoD
 

Cohen,
Site-specific units are hardcoded one to another : ie site X allow production of units Y and Z. You can recycle the Jotun sites if you use the units ID of the previously-Jotun capitol units.
Another good candidate is the Vale of Horses site : it's unique and normally produces the Horse Brothers units (relatively useless). Look at my Arco mod at IW to see how it's used for new capitol troops.
This good idea is from KO himself indeed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Only drawback is that if your capitol is conquered the conqueror WILL be able to produce the troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif , as the Vale site doesn't have the "capitol" flag http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

About the mod balance, I agree that most units are a little overpowered, with the leaders and Heroes totally off-balance. No human should have more than 15 hp or stats above 15 either.
But the idea is neat and I like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif