Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

Hi everyone, see topic.
I particually like the idea of having a medusa or giant scorpion as a god, but somehow they dont play very well. They seem to be a mix between magic and combat, not good at both but not weak either. Any suggestions on how to use them effectivly ?

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

Every time I see the Scorpion King I want to use him, but with the low starting dominion, low starting paths and no feet or body slots, I never end up choosing him.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

about my thought http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

Well, the Medusa has the same paths as the Great Mother, with 1 greater magic (Nature, I _think_), and costs less. If you're wanting those paths for their excellent Rituals (rather than an overt combat Pretender), I would go with the Medusa.

As for the Scorpion King, he's a tougher sell. Still, he seems to have uses as an early combatant. As Abysia, you could arm him with 2 Fire Swords and send him out to attack provinces early, for instance. He also is the only Pretender with Fire and Earth magic innate.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

I once played the scorpion king with Abysia. Bought his magic up to E9 F9, and played a bless strategy. I'm not sure this would work well in MP, but in SP, the effect on indie provinces was suitably gratifying. Not only do lava warriors get two flaming attacks, but with a shroud of the battle saint, slayers get one. At E9, the shroud is not bad armor.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

anyone else ?

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

I used the Scorpion King several times in SP and also 1 time in MP ,always when playing Abysia.
I took E4/F4,goal was to find all Earth and Fire Sites as fast as possible and then alchemize it into Gold,to get a very quick start with Abysia.

This tactic always ended up very succesfull for me,mainly because the good gold income gave me the ability to get a blood economy going very quick.

For initial expansion,the Scorpion King helps a lot with Flare/Legions of Steel(if you go for construction first).
Search all mountain provinces you conquer as fast as possible ,other terrain whenever you can spare the time.
Your goal should be to get at least 150 Gold per turn through alchemy by turn 12.During the initial expansion phase,where all nations dont have that much provinces,and thus income,this means a huge advantage for you.
You are therefore able to field bigger armies soon,to build more castles and to build more mages.
Thats the key.


Later on,the Scorpion King can be formed into a reasonable SC or ,with help of items into a ritual caster.

Personally,I dont think you need a melee SC Pretender with Abyisa...after all your troops are all very potent in melee and later you get very good SC`s with Blood Magic.
Thats why I looked for a Pretender who supports the economy as well as the initial expansion phase by making use of the potent starting spell.

E4/F4 leaves a lot of points for the scales and thus fitted perfectly.

[ July 02, 2004, 21:22: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Me. I like the SK. No body slot but enough natural protection to somewhat make up for it - just consider he comes with a free builtin (and *cursed* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) Black Steel Plate. No feet slot, but the nations he's available to are hot ones and get design points from that, so he can easily buy Quickness thru Water magic - and in exchange you get 2 extra weapons (Pincer and Stinger).

So what's not to like? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And there aren't that many 50-points pretenders that come with 2 magic picks. The SK may not be well suited to a level-9 bless strategy, but it's an extremely effective (and cost-effective) combattant if you give him only the magic he needs to be able to buff himself before entering H2H combat.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

Scorpion King is quite good. Like most things, you just need to use it for what it is, rather than trying to use it like something else you're used to using. The high natural defense is better than "free full black steel plate" because it has no defense or encumbrance penalty. Earth power adds to it. He has nice built-in attacks, and the two paths are good. I took a 3-path SK in my first MP game and won, though I didn't have to use him very much - I mainly had him forge and cast.

The Medusa does seem to have more style than substance. Seems like she should have more awe or fear and/or a short-range paralyze attack (paralyze shield?) to live up to her reputation. Though from a practical standpoint, she's probably fine, as long as you're not trying to use her as a SC without the right extras, and as long as you aren't married to the "every pretender must be a SC" theory.

PvK

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm, perhaps the Medusa should have a short range petrification damage shield? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In my experience the Medusa is a bit underpowered (due to IMHO unreasonably low hitpoints), but with carefull play still is an effective super combatant. Her ability to turn entire armies to stone in the early game can be very fearsome once you figure out how to keep her alive. She very quickly reaches 3 stars and tends to sit atop the hall of fame.

IMHO the medusa's biggest drawback is that her Nature and Earth magic overlap with Pangaea's magic, when you'd really like to have access to other paths. Even so, raise her hitpoints from 20->30 and I think she's good.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, if you consider that the analogue the Scorpion King is otherwise a mounted unit (feetless, larger size), you wouldn't have gotten a defense or encumberance penalty anyway. You do save out on the spellcasting fatigue, but black plate ain't all that.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If she had a built-in Aegis effect, that'd make her a very scary person, with people being petrified and turned to stone and crap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If she had a built-in Aegis effect, that'd make her a very scary person, with people being petrified and turned to stone and crap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm, I haven't tried the Medusa for a long time, but Last time I did I think she still had that built-in 'Aegis effect'.

[Edit: just checked, apparently she still behaves just as a 'living Aegis' would in 2.12]

[ July 03, 2004, 16:58: Message edited by: Nagot Gick Fel ]

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

Heh, if she didn't have the Aegis field then she definitely wouldn't be worth it!

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

I just assumed she didn't have an aegis, since I didn't see one in the character sheet, so I never tried her out! Sounds like something fun to try, now.

As for this:

Norfleet wrote: <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

That's not correct. The defense penalty of armor does affect mounted units - only the encumbrance is ignored.

PvK

[ July 04, 2004, 05:11: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

i've been fooling around with the medusa and the CW theme and she is quite effective. Whether its the snakes or her eye's units attacking her are damaged like a damge shield. she has about the same hp as a VQ and Since in the CW theme high dominion is key you have 30 - 50 hps of space. The fear +5 is very nice as well. Use the usual SC spells maybe sub personal regen for BoW since missle units can rip her down pretty low in the opening round. Recuperation is the bomb. My base is as follows:

Ai4 W2 E4 N1

Ord3 Slo3 He1 Gro3 Mis3 Mag1 Dom8

punch up your heat if you want more magic. I haven't played an entire game with her but I think more heat may be tough cause your already on a sliding income scale as it is (your dom kill pop which depletes income eventually)

**added** with that basic magic set up she gets fatigued pretty quick. However since the units tend to melt as they attack you while you scare the piss out of them...I don't know how large a factor that is. I can't remember the penalty for going over 100

[ July 04, 2004, 08:44: Message edited by: djtool ]

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

The medusa rocks, period! You obviously haven't experienced her armed with just a snake bladder stick scripted to cast earth power, invulnerability, strength of Gaia, attack rear ... She will just poison and/or petrify everything! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

don't forget that nifty ribcage you can throw on her when one of your pans has a skull staff and that helmet thingy-ma-jigger

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The penalty for going over 100 fatigue is typically death. The morale check for dead units doesn't happen until before a side's turn, and so armies won't immediately rout from damage shields. Worse, the aegis effect generally doesn't offer you any actual protection -- units that die from it immediately leave room for others to attack you. If you're passed out those that don't get stoned will likely kill the medusa.

But then again, there isn't really much reason to run out of fatigue. By the time you can cast enough worthwhile spells to be in danger you should have reinvigoration items.

A couple of side notes. IMHO water magic isn't worth it on a Medusa, it just leads to extra fatigue and the only real benefit you get is +3 defense and water breathing -- pretty expensive for 96 design points. Air magic on the other hand is very usefull: Mirror Image, Mistform, Lightning Resistance, Shockwave, Cloud Trapeze, Rainbow Armor, Floating Trident. Also, while a snake stick is fun, IMHO you're better off with something effective against other super combatants, who will likely be poison immune; besides, the Medusa doesn't really need any aid killing fodder.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

I suppose your right about the water. I'd be a little nervous with archeres and might have to throw air shield in there for the first spell. Then you can't deal with calvaries properly until you can cast invunerability. I suppose that's just a personal choice then.

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

I like both of these pretenders. SK is a good combatant, especially when you equip him with the right stuff, even if he isn't quite at the top of the SC list. I like playing Abysia, and he's a good pretender for them.

The medusa is also nice, even if there is magic overlap with national mages. If you play a luck 3/turmoil 3 standard Pangaea, having an E9/N6 (base E2/N) medusa will give your holy units a nice boost in armor, reinvigoration and berserking ability, it can easily function as serious support for armies or outright destroy huge numbers of indies with spells (Mmm... Blade Wind...). Overall, I like it, even if some other designs might be optimal.

Edi

Re: Scorpion King and Medusa pretender...any use ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Beware of Blade Wind if you send your Medusa alone in the battlefield. I've seen some kill themselves with their own point blank Blade Wind even with Invulnerability up (with Earth-9+ she can fire a awful LOT of blades).