I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I need help!

As I have stated before my inital strategy with pythium is based upon Principes backed up with lots of Theurg Acolytes casting Body Etherial. Works dandy for expanding. However I have three problems:

1) I can't figure out how to summon anything worth while. It's fustrating. I commonly have a good number of gems by turn 30 ( like 600 or so of various types sitting in the bank ) but nothing at all to spend them on. Maybe that's the curse of taking a rainbow mage?

2) I can't get blood worth crap and I *really* dig blood. But with the nerf to blood hunting it seems that blood is not for pythium.

3) I can't really figure out what is decent battle magic. I know that I have access to basically any air, water or astral battle magic but I can't find anything that really, really kicks ***. I've tried mass soul slay, mass enslave mind, mass stellar cascades but none of them *really* kick ***. Orb lighting would kick ***, but it's range seems to limit me from using it a lot ( I guess I should put my army right at the front or something ). And falling frost really does not seem to get the job done that well. I was even somewhat unimpressed with thurges casting Nifel Flames ( oh how I wanted that to work out! ). Wrathful skies seems to be the only spell that *really* kicks *** but it kicks my *** too! I guess I could try Shimmering Fields. There has to be *something* that I am missing. Oh I like nether darts, but sadly you don't get many casters with the ability to cast that. How should I use communion! I know it's massivly powerful but what to use?

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Oh I guess the one battle magic that I do know that works with communion is banishment. Sadly I'm allied with Ermor so that's a no-no. But it would be *really* funny to watch. 6 or so level 6 preists that would be funny to watch!

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I think you probably just need to get more play experience. The things you are describing can be very very effective, if used in the right ways and numbers, against the right foes. For example, I don't know how mass soul slay can be ineffective, unless fighting things with high MR or that don't have souls or have tons of hitpoints or something. Communion is great with Pythium because of their cheap communion slaves. Basically you want a bunch of them, and they will allow your mages to cast more powerful spells with tons of fatigue to spare.

PvK

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Its funny before on multiplayer game i strongly considered taking Pythium but decided not to because of the exact same reasoning in not having anything to summon (i wanted to make a rainbow).

You say the high level astral spells aren't any good? I was always aiming one day to try out some of the battlefield wide luck and mind control spells, but haven't ever gotten far enough yet to test them out (or/ie got bored and quit before then)...

If you took the Divine Emperor, however, you can place more Astral buffs on him than on any other Pretender chassis in the game. I beleive its Skull Cap +1, up to four of the following: Tome of High Power +1, Forbidden Light +2, Crystal Coin +1, and The Rings of Wizardry and Sorcery +1; and the Robe of the Magi +1. +7 Astral would make a pretty powerful battlefield caster, even if he only started with 4 or 5. Than how many more Astral buffs are there possible during the battle? Banner of Northern Star +1, Astral Self Buff +1, i think maybe one more... and on top of that, you get the communion bonuses, which will probably >= +3. So assuming 4 astral at the start, you get as a maximum uh, 14?. Doesn't sound too shabby for a flabby human.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think horror-marking your flabby human is a good idea.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

wait... weren't you the one who wrote the Pythium guide?

Anyways, I would convert my gems into something all my casters can work with. If you want to turn one elemental gem into another, you can convert it astral pearls first.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well it was an initial try at a pythium guide!

And I've found the 1st part of the guide to be serviceable. You can expand quite well against high defence indeps with Principies+Theurg Acolytes casting body etherial. Works quite well.

And I wrote that guide without having played multiplayer which has shown me a big hole in the guide.

The problem with my strategy is what do you summon? And what kind of magic do you use after soul slay gets old?

I mean my current formula is something like :

1) research until turn 5 to get alteration 3.
2) expand using Principes ( and a few standards ) + theurg acolytes.
3) add in some theurgs and communicants to cast all of the soul slay/enslave mind that/stellar cascades that you want.
4) ????
5) ????

The strategy works great until 4. The problem is I don't know what to do after that! People are usually running around with mass summons and/or powerful SCs and they are hard to take down.

So seem to do quite well until about turn 40 or so and then it breaks down. I don't know what to do! Oh and whatever it is that I should do ( blood hunt a LOT? Figure out what to summon? ) I have to learn to somehow do it before turn 30 or so. I feel like I am *really* slow.

[ July 03, 2004, 07:50: Message edited by: Huzurdaddi ]

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

yep i have the same problems .
i started my first mp game 2 days ago so i am at turn 2 = no expierience in mp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i liked pyhthium but as you say there are no good astral summons . and i don't know yet how do design a good pretender for pyhtium because the arch theurgs are expensive and the principles need much resources so you can't take a sloth scale .
if you don't have some paths at your pretender you have nothing good to summon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

in the late game with astral 3 water 1 on arch theurgs you only need +1 water / astral and can summon abominations but thats really late game .

blood is only useful if you find indep blood hunters and/or a site with a high blood summon bonus of 40+% ihmo .

i really like pythium but suck with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Pythium is a great nation. With it's strong astral mages and gem income, coupled with the easy and early generation of clam of pearls for more astrals all mean strong flexibililty in the later game.

A good early-mid strategy is to recruit indy archers and go for Wind Guide. Principes are great basic infantry, especially with the standards to boost morale. Backed up by astral magic and wind-guided archers, it's a good combo.

The key to Pythium, however, it to go for Acashic Record (AR) early. Go for those Waste, Mtn and Forest provinces, and cast AR on them (Wastelands first) early. You should get set up for a good, broad gem income with that. With your Arch Theurgs' random pick, or with Sages, Druids, Amazons, or those flying death mages, you can get into many different magic lines and summons.

Air elemental queens are awesome, the Harbinger, or even better Angelic Host (which get you a strong Fire Mage). Contact Couatl can get you into Nature magic if you haven't already done it with Druids. Death is very easy to get into with a death 1 sage or an Arch Thuerg with a random death pick.

Edit: Forgot to add that your water magic can easily get you to Summon Troll King Court, which puts you into the water in force.

[ July 04, 2004, 22:05: Message edited by: Master Shake ]

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or you can not make heavy use of principes.

Or you can make fast 2 turn castles and produce them from multiple points.

Or both.

- Kel

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Waaa? But they are excellent for the cost. I don't know why people cry about how much they cost it's not like they cost resources like HI. They cost 19 resources. That's 33% less than most HI. They are *CHEAP* for what they do.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think that Pythium needs help in the early game. The principie takes care of the early game. You can even add in Therug Acolytes to make them *very* good against independents or any nation unlucky to be placed next to you.

The problem happens later, at least for me. Around turn 35-45 standard units become much less powerful compared to what they are facing. And I am having a problem fielding an army to match the other side. The problem, I think, boils down to the lack of death, blood or high air paths. The 1st two of these two schools have very powerful summons in the end game and air has very powerful battle magics. While Pythium has air magic it is only level 2, and it is on a very expensive unit. I understand that a nation can not have it all. But having one of these three things seems to be the ticket in the end game.

Hence in my current game I am doing anything and everything I can to cultivate both death and blood. It's slow going. It's tough, but it's the only option that I see.

Oh and I am going to make a good number of harbringers to counter other people's blood and death.

[ July 05, 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: Huzurdaddi ]

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

This idea assumes you have a pretender with S4, D1 and/or A5.

An idea for the Pythium mid-game could be to aim for conjuration 6 and cast Ether gate. Expensive gemwise, but yields 15 hard to kill Ether Warriors. and a DDSSSS commander that besides being a good combat mage is definately SC material.

After this go for Conjuration 7 and put the air gems to good use in summoning the Queens of elemental air. These are fine SCs in my experience. But it might be a race to get these first. You might need to convert some gems to get them.

These should help you through the mid game

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Say it with me here: COMMUNION.

Yes, Air has very powerful battle magics, some of which require a fair level of skill to cast. Yes, the Pythiumians don't have as high an innate level of air proficiency as, say, Caelum or Vanheim. However, Pythium is ALL about the communion. Reaching any reasonably useful level of magic for all but the most ludicrously pathy spells is trivial for an Arch Theurg with sufficient communicants. The randoms, combined with the communioning, will let you use any spell in the game.

As for Air, you don't even have to worry about accidentally electrocuting your communicants: If the master casts Resist Lightning, all commslaves will be protected as well. Communion is fun.

This, of course, does not address the fact that your ritual-casting and forging ability is not that strong, but the right picks in pretender magics can easily circumvent this issue.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Hm, those Ether Lords might be nasty nether-dart machines when Communioned. Pricey for that 'tho; Lamia Queens might be more cost-efficient if you can get a Nature supply and caster.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Also, you keep asking for summons. Personally, I dont think pythium is a summon-nation, but instead they should base on a more conventional army with great battlefield magic. Just give those principes of yours mistform, luck, mass protection, whatever, and they become a force that even the most powerful SC's take frigging decades to kill. Then use them to shield your mages that can cast some real nasty damage spells with the help of communion. Even paralyse is very very nasty when cast by a mage that has effective astral of 8, and a spell focus...

I personally like a pythium strategy that has an e-10 cyclops as a pretender. He gives your mages, and most importantly, communicants, great reinvigoration, and also can cast the spell "enliven statues" with frightful efficiency when you slap on earth boots. Statues are very good sc-fodder, and when boosted by just a little they become very very hard to kill. Also, the cyclops can cast things like army of lead, blade wind with gazillion blades, and earthquake.
Just give him a load of gems and a staff of storms (to protect him), and perhaps some armour, and attack enemy army, cast earthquake twice, and flee: instant army-shredder.

Also, when you have army of lead up, earthquake is not really very harmful for you.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I haven't heard much discussion about the hydras/hatchlings, is there a way to make them useful? With their poison cloud and no real easy way to give ur troops poison resistence they seem to be more harm than help. And what about the gladiators? Has anyone found a way to make them usefull at all?

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Mass Flight (Enchant-7 Air-4), send them into the enemy rear to wreak havoc. Or put them in your front center with missile troops along your flanks (well out of the path of any rout) and charge them into the enemy front supported by your missileers.

Then there's Serpent's Blessing (Enchant-7 Nature-4) which protects your whole army versus (natural) poison. (I haven't cast this spell myself, so I'm not sure, but it should protect against the hydra poison.)

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Hmmm, yeah, thatd work, just seems very cost prohibitive compared to the mass principe idea, you can get 16 of those guys for the same price (350), even though itl take more turns. Would the hatchlings be better since they are better priced, even though they don't have lesser fear?

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Check out this thread: On using poison cloud units...

and this one: On Pythium and Hydras

This forum's SEARCH function is quite handy ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I always go principe, though some prefer the hastati for the gold savings. hatchlings are quite close to useless; the full grown, except in serpent cult, rarely of use. good against miasma c'tis.

the gladiators are, in theory, a good troop for scratch Last minute defense, say of an isolated mage communion. or as the lead troops in a battle you expect to take very heavy losses in. In practice, I almost never buy any. I once bought some (in a very early game) on the theory that they were cheap patrollers, until they caught a scout... ;p

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

haha, yes, the n00b alert has been launched! hit the deck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Thx though

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

yeah, i can see how they would be wonderful for patrolling, especially if you wen't for blood with your pretender or something.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Heh. Not sure - think it was another game, against Quantum Mechanic, but one of my flying harpy scouts stumbled on his capital. There went about 30 of my allies gladiators, against a scout. Almost makes empowering a scout for Air Trapeze worthwhile - trapeze the scout in, there go the gladiators, then bring in the real army on foot.

About hydras : I find the full grown ones very useful, with the right troop placement, choice of leaders, battle magic. The hatchlings? Even better - they make the _best_ shish kebabs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Hm in theory the hydras are nice .
You could e.g. lead them by a banelord , bane etc. and mix in some undead fodder to prevent routing .
The problem is just that the undead fodder gets killed to easy so it is very costintensive .
You could combine the Hydras with behemoths this should prevent routing and the behemoths should be alive at least sometime .

For Broken Empire ermor they would be much more useful though since they could generate their reanimatefodder undeads in the quantities needed without too high costs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Living statues could work rather well too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Strategic move of 1 and higher upkeep then an Archtheurg limit their usefulness though .

As archaeolept said Principes / Hastatati are just normally more useful .
The "routpreventing" normally takes just too much effort/resources to really consider hydras i think.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Turns 1-10: Research alteration (all the way to 9). A proper pretender for this tactic has 7S (Oracle?). The use of AR is recommended always when possible. Use soul slay with your theurgs, while principes are doing their job in the front line. It's crucial to conquer first all the surrounding provinces to gain a good resource income. Since Pythium is mainly a resource-trusting nation, use of mercenaries is also acceptable.

Turns 11-20: Trade your gems (with the exception of astral and water) with other players for some astral-enchancing equipment. Start clam hoarding if you have a proper water gem income. Still keep up researching alteration. Try to avoid war against other players (keep em happy with gems and such). It's vital to seize provinces to find new magic sites and researchers. Library is always a nice surprise. What comes to your troops, stick with principes and threugs.

Turns 21-30: Now do everything to keep up with provinces and maintain a good gem income. Secure every corner with your principes and calm players to not to attack you. Use your everly Last piece of gold to buy new researchers, and build labs in such places where you can buy a leader with a research skill. Your pretender should have S9 by now (traded items with other players). Hope you have good astral income, since it's the most important source for the completion of this tactic. Teleport or move your pretender to some isolated province (near the player you'll be attacking), with low income and build a lab down there. Also remember to raise defence.

Turns 31-40: If you've played your cards right, you should have alt 7 by now. Players are becoming more and more hostile and actions must be made. Wait for alteration 9 to be completed and wish for doom horror. If you have good amount of basic troops in the enemy border, commence in. Little by little start bringing Doom Horrors into battlefields. Soon you might be able to give astral enchancing equipment to some hero and make him Doom Horror wisher No. 2.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I'm playing Pythium right now in an MP game, and it's been great to have this thread resurface, with new comments. In the game, I'm doing reasonably well, but I've made more than my share of tactical mistakes, leading to the following questions.

1) I believe that hydras are effective (played well), but like others I'm having some difficulty in using them cost-effectively. Am I correct in thinking that the main reason why you want hatchlings is simply to make the group bigger at something less than the cost of the full hydras?

If so there must be some more or less optimal ratio between hydras and hatchlings - I'd guess around 1::4. Does that sound reasonable?

2) I've found it very easy to use Principe cost effectively - as such I'm probably over using them. This thread has given me plenty of ideas about using hydras/hatchlings, but what about Emerald Guards? Does anyone out there particularly like them? At the least they seem like good body guards for your Arch Theurgs, but while I haven't tried it yet, it seems like they might be worth paying for in larger numbers as a line behind the Principe, or perhaps mixed in with Principe.

3) On Serpent Cataphracts, they seem like really good troops, but it's always a tough choice when you know you can get so many more Principe. So far I have put together a few times Groups of 5-7 Cataphracts, and they have been effective, but I wonder if I'm underutilizing them. Also, perhaps because my Groups were too small they didn't survive as long as I might have hoped (although in at least one case they took out a goodly number of devils before routing).

Anyone have any pointers on the minimal size of a Cataphract squad? Has anyone out there found it useful to mix other units in with the Cataphracts? Has anyone out there found the Serpent Lord worth paying for?

4) Currently I'm fighting Abysia, and I've found it particularly difficult to kill devils. I guess I'm doing ok, as the number of devils that are showing up is reducing, but still any pointers on countering devils would be appreciated! And especially pointers on eliminating a raid army of devils plus demonbred would be most appreciated!

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

group of theurgs (say 6+)really preferably w/ spell foci, and communicants(8), fronted by principe w/ some mixed in as theurg guards

quickness, communion master, banish demon X3
(have one scripted to cast the occasional fanaticism too, and one scripted to luck, twist of fate, charge body, astral shield, to buff the commies). more theurgs and communicants are always good.

just make sure to have enough principe or hastati as well to engage the devils.

summon up some false horrors too - no need to communion whichever theurg you assign to that task.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Yes.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

thanks for the info Arryn, Archaeolept.


This sounds like excellent advice, and good detailed suggestions on scripting. Assembling this force, and have it be in the right place and the right time (given the strat move of 1 for Arch Theurgs), is a little tricky.

It'd be cool to have this kind of force teleport in somewhere, along with a teleporting/cloud trapezing SC or two. I've tried combining CoW with Arch Theurg teleport, but that doesn't work too well as the CoW hawks rout so quickly against devils.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

not arch-theurgs, unless you have some special need for their communioned random - say a 1N arch-theurg, communioned, can cast relief x 5

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Doh! That makes much more sense. All though it probably indicates I've been under recruiting theurgs, and over recruiting arch theurgs. I like the idea of using a 1N arch theurg, communioned, to get access to relief tho. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I have the same problem. They are so good that it's hard to stop using them. They really are excellent troops.

Well their stats are fantastic. But their strat move of 1 worries me. As such I never build them. Too bad, since they are so excellent.

Indeed that is why I made this post originally. While I was killing the devils at a great rate in the game ( mostly due to errors on the other player's side ) I knew that once he got his act together I was cooked. There really was little I could do to stop them.

All I can say is that nifel flames and shimmering fields are your friends. Those two spells kick *** a little, although they are expensive.

Also falling frost does hurt the devils and that worked somewhat ok. So quickness, communion master, with at least 8 or even better 16 communicants, and falling frost x3 hurts the devils.

But devils are *hard* to kill. They are one amazing troop. And they are basically free. I find that the combination of great SC's and devils make blood empires really hard to combat if they get rolling.

I'll be honest here. I've never tried that. But I have to ask: have you? I mean devils have an MR of 17 which is what gives Pythium fits since a lot of Pythium's battle magic has an MR check. I can see it working, but if that works I think that mass soul slay would work just as well. Perhaps I'm wrong. I would love to hear how you got it working.

That random is golden for Pythium it's true. There are so many possibilities that really can make battles easier. It's too bad that Pythium's magic is so painfully locked into 3 paths. But if they had magic like arco with the very cheap communicant it would be too powerful ( but oh so fun to play ).

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

w/ spell foci and normal positive magic MR subtraction, the devils will have an effective MR of 12. that's not so hot, and they'll be taking serious losses from say 5 quickened theurgs, w/ one theurg casting buffs.

the real advantage of banish demon is that it costs no fatigue, and so the theurg/communicant machine will Last longer. and principe hold up pretty well.

as well, the buffed communicants will do a very good job soaking up attacks from the devils: luck and twist of fate will mean that they will survive on average 5 attacks; astral shield depends upon the level of the caster (5) and i think the spell foci might well still add in, which would lead to a number of turns of paralysis on top of this...

after scripting finishes they may well cast enslave mind or soul slay, which will have somewhat lower penetration but still be fairly effective.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Oh and I am playing Pythium in my most recent game ( Boron's game on mosehansen ).

I'm going to do my usual expansion with principes who are etherial. It hurts your research since you have to send out 3-5 casters with your army but it seems to make a decent sized difference.

After that I can switch to mind-burn/Smite based armies for a few turns and then to soul slay armies. That should Last until turn 25-30. Assuming I live that long. But indeps are set somewhat high so I hope that most people will be happy killing them for a while.

The question is what to do after that. I guess you have to rush to AQ ( which probably means getting them before this point ). I really don't know what to do.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

How do you do that? Are you saying 3-5 theurgs, casting body ethereal, placed in and around a principe squad, will make it mostly ethereal?

That does sounds like a neat idea for early game - I'll have to try that next time I play Pythium.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

I also have a question about this Body Ethereal thing on the Principe's, and I'm probably going to go off topic a second.

I have seen this mentioned before, perhaps even in this thread, and I am confused about casting Body Ethereal on troops as I would assume the caster would cast it on himself.

What the heck am I missing here? And I just started playing Pythium in one of the newb games so this is of great interest to me.

Krool

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Body ethereal has range one so he can cast it on any adjacent units. If he's next to a large pretender, he'll always cast it on him first. Not sure about other troops.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Yep. Place your principes in a block and sprinkle 3-5 thurges/theurg acos in the block and script x3 body etherial, and set the principies on hold and attack and when they start moving most of them will be etherial.

Or place 10 principes with each thrurg/theurg aco and place the theurg in the middle of the 10 man block and script x3 body etherial and boom you have lots of small blocks of etherial troops.

They are quite good at smashing indeps. Not as good as an SC, but darn good. After a good number of indeps you will have some seriously experienced principes, defence 17 here I come.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

it is a nice trick. the problem, of course, is the cost of the theurgs, and the lost research this involves.

as well, as there isn't a "hold and fire" command, you can't script the principes to lead w/ a couple javelin tosses.

I'm not sure which is better. Probably, against very high level indeps, I'd go w/ the ethereal when backed by a bit of artillery. Against normal indeps, the principes generally do just fine on their own.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

If you set them to "hold and attack", they'll fire at everything that comes in range. Which is not that great, sadly. So if placed forward enough, you might one lucky shot in before melee begins. If you use big enough stacks, those units in the rear actually fire at the nearby enemy while the front line is fighting.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

The reason I always thought it worked nicely for Pythium is the nice cheap Acolyte. He gets the job done and at the cost of 5 or so principes, less if you count maintainance.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

It's reasonably cheap, gold wise, but it will still hurt your early research.

Of course, if it lets you take a high dollar province that you couldn't otherwise, then you can put that towards anothre castle/lab to catch up in research. If it just saves a couple of principes from dying, though...well, let them do their duty and die for the empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

- Kel

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Yeah i hate this too . Same with vanheim e.g. . I lost more valkieries because of throwing javelins from huskarls/vans then on indies .

Sometimes the javelins can be quite helpful e.g. when a barbarian horde stops just before you and all fire and the barbarians rout then . But normally you get more casualities through friendly fire by this then enemy kills .

Once you reach alteration 6 you can replace the body etheral by false horror spamming .
Really good against the Last indies / not too big player forces with normal morale like 10-15 .

If you scout earlygame you can give a player some trouble by casting a few call of the winds on his provinces and putting taxes to 200% + evading his main force .

I normally don't invest much in pd only 1 pd but later castles . So do a lot of other players too . So with a bit luck you can earlygame give an opponent some trouble . You need to time it cause it works only for 1-2 turns , after this the enemy will built higher pd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
But as preparation for war when made properly on turn 10-20 this can prevent the enemy from building troops for 5-10 turns and perhaps even lead to upkeep problems .


Summoning can be a problem with pythium cause your mages can't summon much . So you have to carefully design your pretender according .

With 2.13 harbingers / archangels are a bit valorised .
I guess they will be a good competitor then for the role as good thug with banelords .

Pythium has imo a really good earlygame expansion rate cause you don't need to search provinces and can do this by accashic later .
So you can expand with your SC , first 1 later 2 theurg + principle squads .

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

The body ethereal thing is nifty. But the principes are quite good in their own right. I wouldn't bother sending a bunch of mages along with them unless I wanted to crack a really tough indy province. And even then my preference would be to just send more principes.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Ok you got me interested. What have they done to these summons? I did not see it in the patch notes.

I guess it depends upon the indep settings.

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

So I downloaded the patch and I played enough to get a harbringer and I did not notice a change.

What was the change? Does the horn work now or something?

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

It is indirect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Because the Harbinger/Arch angel have 50% Fire resistence they still can use the burning pearl for +4 attack and get 100% Fire resistence ( or at least they should i haven't played much with 2.13 because i don't play much sp anymore and in mp the games are still 2.12 )

So with e.g. Banelord , Ice devil etc you have to chose now whether you want +4 att but only 50% fire resistence or +100% fire resistence .

I think you need 100% fire resistence at least against fire nations like abysia otherwise they can easy incinerate you to death then .

So not the Harbinger/Arch angel are better but with the Burning pearl change the Others like Banelords get a bit worse . Furthermore those 2 are built in sacred + priests on their own to bless them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

I always thought bah 50 pearls for a lousy Arch angel when i have to pay only 10 deathgems for a Banelord but a Archangel has 14 base att and 11 base def , the Banelord 14 base att and 14 base def .
So all in all with e.g. a waterblessing + a burning pearl a Arch angel should be slightly better then a Banelord .

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

• Archangel is sacred, BL isn't.
• AA has 3F and 4H, BL has no magic at all.
• AA comes with 6 angels, BL comes by himself.
• AA flies, BL doesn't.
• AA has awe, BL has chill (awe is arguably more powerful, since it's harder to defend against).

The above items, especially the first two, account for the cost difference.

You need to quit looking at just a unit's combat stats and look at the totality of the unit's traits and gear when you attempt to compare units, and carefully examine how well that gestalt works in actual game play (as opposed to theoretical play).

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

You don't need to look at the gear because you normally always replace it anyways by magic items later as long it is not exactly what you want .

We agree here though anyways because i wrote in past tense that i always thought until a short time ago that an Archangel is too expensive . But the past tense should show that i don't think this now anymore especially with 2.13 .


Curious : What else can you do to try out finding good combos then first theoretically thinking what might be good and then testing it practically in mp ?

Does cold resistence protect against chill ?

Does awe work against ranged attacks too ? I guess only against melee .

Re: I suck with Pythium ... please help!
 

Wrong, you must. The reason for this is because the game's devs factored it into the unit's cost, regardless of your feelings for the worth of the gear.

When you compare two units on the basis of their cost, you must compare them as-is, not after you've equipped them. Otherwise, you must compare the TOTAL costs for each unit after you've piled on whatever you will stuff them with. Finally, any such comparison is invalid if the units aren't used for the same purpose. Most players would not (for example) equip an Archangel with the same gear that they'd give a Banelord, nor would they employ the AA and BL for the same purposes (BLs are typically used as mini-SCs, AAs as ritual casters and battlefield support).

Perhaps so, but you didn't bother to elaborate as to why you think/thought as you do/did.

I try them first in real SP games. If it sucks in SP it'll very likely suck even worse in MP.

Yes.

No. Yes.