MP Game -no Quickhost closed(Ret.of the Rejects)
 

Since there are no slots open on Mosehansen,I would be very happy,if someone could host my following game idea,if there are enough people who show their interest in this type of game...and I know there are a lot of people who want to start a new game ,but dislike all those Faerun games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

"Desert Warriors"

Desert Eye
10-14 Players(lot of action therefore)
Independent Strength:7
Magic Sites:55
Normal Research/Resources
24h,NO Quickhost
Underwater Nations disabled
Only specific themes allowed for most nations
No other house rules

I would like to encourage people to try out something new in this game,especially the weakest considered themes of most nations,therefore the following restrictions are applied:

Abysia----only Blood of Humans allowed
Arcos-----only Golden Era
Caelum----only Return of the Raptors
C`tis-----only Desert Tombs or Miasma
Ermor-----only "normal"theme(Broken Empire I think)
Jotunheim---only standard theme,no Utgard and no Niefelheim
Man-------Last of Tuatha only
Marignon---Diabolical Faith and CotS only
Pangaea---Carrion Woods or New Era only
Pythium---Serpent theme only
Ulm-----Black Forest not allowed
Vanheim----only Hellheim
Mictlan---no themes,no restriction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Tien Chi---Spring&Autumn or Barbarian Kings only
Machaka----no restriction


I would like to try out Vanheim/Hellheim by the way.
Tell me,what you think about this idea.

[ July 11, 2004, 12:39: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

If you find an host I'd play with Abysya.

If none will join the Forgotten Wars game on Mose in some days, I'll free the slot.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

if you find somebody to host ( perhaps norfleet ) i am in and like to try marignon DF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

When you get a host, I'd be interested - there's several nations / themes I wouldn't mind, and this seems appealing.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

heehee. Proving the worth of "weak" things in the game is my favorite thing to do. Sounds like fun. But I will hold off until you feel like you have filled all of the slots you can.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'll host the game if you get enough players.

I'd even be willing to play as Iron Woods Jotunheim, which I think is actually better than Utgard and about as good as Niefelheim depending on the game situation.

Is Black Forest Ulm considered the strongest of the Ulm themes? I thought basic Ulm was considered strongest (although I am sort of getting the hang of BF...)

[ July 07, 2004, 21:55: Message edited by: Sheap ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'll take C'tis Desert Tombs.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'd be interested in Caelum until/if the game becomes overcrowded.

If you're interested, regardless of whether I play or not, I can also host this for you.....but my price, is, as always, that I get to give your game a snarky name!

[ July 08, 2004, 02:29: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Might I suggest "Blitz the Diplomat" or "Cohen the Steadfast" as suitably snarky names that might actually draw more players? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

now that we have already several players and 2 possible hosts,I decided to change the topic name http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Player list so far(in order of appearance):

Cohen(Abysia)
Boron(Marignon)
Cainehill(Man)
Gandalf Parker(nation undecided)
Sheap(Jotunheim)
Reverend Zombie(C´tis)
Norfleet(Caelum)
Mark the Merciful(Mictlan)
djtool(Pangaea)

Mardagg(Vanheim)

As soon as we reach the 10 player mark,there will be another 24 hours for the game to be open to eventually reach the maximum of 14 players.
Thank you very much in advance to Sheap and Norfleet for offering to host the game.
Now the question arises,who wants/should host the game.
I know that Norfleet has hosted a lot of games before,so may I ask you Sheap:Do you have also
hosted some games before and thus have experience in doing so?

[ July 11, 2004, 12:08: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'll take Mictlan.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I host all the games for my gaming group, which is half a dozen or so thus far. My system is always on and generally doesn't suffer from hosting related chaos. But: I do not have my heart set on hosting so if Norfleet wants to do it that is fine. I just didn't want the risk of having to do a PBEM game (oh the suffering).

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Much as I'm tempted to take Pangaea, Mardagg did want people to try something different / new for them. Since I've played a lot of Pan CW, and some NE, I'll go ahead and take .... Man, Last of the Tuatha for the first time.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

So does this mean I'm hosting, or Sheap is hosting?

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

So guys,we just reached the 10 player mark,if we count Norfleet(who wasnt yet decided) and Gandalf Parker(who didnt chose a nation yet) in.
I have updated the player list,you find it some replies below.

As stated before,the game will be closed in 24 hours from now.Maybe we can get 1 or 2 more players until then.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well,I really dont know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
It`s up to you and Sheap.
Sheap stated below,that he hasn`t his heart set on hosting...but I assume that you think the same.
I would say,If you dont participate in this game,it would be the best that you host it.
If you also play in this game,then we need just one of both of you saying:"I will host it" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ July 10, 2004, 13:57: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is there some reason you haven't been taking your turns in Cradle of Uncivilization? (mosehansen, 2280?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i set the nation to CC..i'll do it again.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is there some reason you haven't been taking your turns in Cradle of Uncivilization? (mosehansen, 2280?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i set the nation to CC..i'll do it again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lovely. How many free turns did Norfleet get because you didn't go AI when you thought you did, didn't announce it so someone could fix it, and didn't check to make sure? Nothing like giving him a free ride because your Pretender got killed.
Sheesh.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Hello All,
I'd love to play T'ien Ch'i (S/A). So far I've played a couple small games by E-mail with a friend. If the slots are still open, and someone cares to instruct me on joining this game, I'm ready to play! Pretender's all set, just tell me where to send it.
-If I'm too late, give me a buzz for the next game!
Yc

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">2.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, his pretender is alive and well, rather annoyingly, having evaded 3 attempts to kill/maim it. And currently stuck in his capitol. I expect to rectify that next turn.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

After a confusing argument, it has been decided that, barring any weird complications, Sheap will be hosting.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

that subject caine is OT and can be left to our pm's.

[ July 10, 2004, 22:09: Message edited by: djtool ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

So on what's the IP address and the port we should connect at?

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'd like to play as pangaea.

[ July 10, 2004, 12:25: Message edited by: djtool ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is there some reason you haven't been taking your turns in Cradle of Uncivilization? (mosehansen, 2280?)

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Once the game registration and who is playing has been officially settled, I'll have everyone email me pretenders. Once that's done I'll set up the server and post the address and port at that time.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I don't use email. Can't we just do this the regular way? You can't email binaries anyway, it garbles the telnet.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'll be Ulm if there are still slots open.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My guess is that he doesn't want to post the IP and port publicly, as there's numerous valid reasons for avoiding that. (Security reasons, making sure that only the players who are _supposed_ to be in the game are uploading the correct pretenders, etc.)

Still need a finalized list of players / nations, both for us, and him.

Actually, a suggestion - everyone should at least email the name of the theme they're playing, along with the pretender file, to Sheap. Best to have at least half-arse validation that everyone is only selecting the themes that are allowed.

(One of my games recently, turn 16, we had to restart because someone (oops!) hadn't abided by the rules. It happens to us all - but better to try and avoid it.)

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Of course you can email binaries. Well, maybe you can't, since you don't have email, but everyone else can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Security wasn't really what I was thinking (although that is a good point) as much as, there is just less chance of random chaos if game setup is done manually. In my experience it is a rare day when all the players do all the setup steps correctly. But I am flexible.

How about this: Once we have a particular start date and schedule agreed upon, I will just put the server up a sufficient amount of time before game start and people can upload their pretenders "normally." I'll wait to upload mine until Last, that way if someone does bungle something, there'll be a chance to correct it without the game accidentally starting and then having to do it all over again.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like score graphs on. Mostly I think it's reasonable that everyone have some idea what's going in the world.

Mark

[ July 11, 2004, 13:09: Message edited by: Mark the Merciful ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like score graphs on. Mostly I think it's reasonable that everyone have some idea what's going in the world.

Mark </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The stock response is, of course:

"use your scouts and/or spies to figure out what's going on"

and

"score graphs make the advantage of nations with good spies less relevant."

I vote for off.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

First I should ask: What is the time of day (including timezone) when the turn should be generated?

I definitely want score graphs on. They don't give you enough information to do anything except know, in general, where you stand. I think every player should have this information, otherwise they may suddenly find they are in bad shape and not have an opportunity to correct it.

You can say "just use your spies." Having to blanket the entire world with spies #1 increases micromanagement by a huge amount, #2 gives an advantage to the empires that actually have useful spies (or lots of money) and #3 doesn't really increase the fun factor of the game. Finally there is still information, such as research, which can't be seen at all, and income, which you CAN see with spies, but is a tremendous hassle to do.

[ July 11, 2004, 18:34: Message edited by: Sheap ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I live GMT +1,but I have no preference there.
Since this game is not quickhosted,everyone should be able to adapt to the hosting time and play the turn in between 24 hours.
Also with no quickhost,you are able to only play a part of your turn and return later to finish it without fearing that it is quickhosted in between(thats why I like it more than quickhost on).

Concerning the score graphs:
There are several pros and cons.
IMO we should only play without score graphs if all players agree to this,since they are an important aspect of multiplayer games (and its normal to play with score graphs on).
Lets play with score graphs enabled therefore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You seem to be in the minority, then: The by-and-large accepted standard is that score graphs should be off, for a number of reasons, such as that it disadvantages nations that have better scouting and spying abilities, and for precisely that "suddenly find they are in bad shape" thing: Most people, upon discovering that they are in bad shape, start wimping out of the game: They go AI, or worse, go AWOL. This tends to greatly disturb game balance, because if a stronger player suddenly has his opponent replaced with an AI, he grows even stronger, faster: This sets off a chain reaction of everyone ELSE going AI, and pretty soon the entire game collapses.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Knowledge is power, and forewarned is forearmed: Most players who are any good tend to regularly blanket their opponent in spies and scouts anyway.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Having good spies is *SUPPOSED* to be a national advantage!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Says you. I happen to enjoy trying to be deliberately secretive and misinforming my opponents about my technological and military progress.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Research can be extrapolated based on what spells your opponent uses for summonings and in battle, which in turn requires that you spy on him and watch his battles with your scouts and spies, unless you want to find this information out the hard way by attacking him personally.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Before I get to arguing, I don't want this to in any way disrupt the timely starting of the game. Everyone please get your vote in and once there is a majority I will put up the server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not sure how accepted this standard is. Of the people that weighed in so far it is 50/50 as to who likes score graphs and who doesn't.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nations with good spies have plenty of advantages already. They can spy on well defended enemy provinces with less risk of being caught, are more likely to have more and better spies in enemy territory when they are needed, and usually have special abilities such as inciting unrest or assassination. The default setting is to have score graphs on, meaning that the "natural" balance of the game is to play with them on.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which sucks, but (from the game reports I have seen) there are only a few players who will wimp out of a game just when they start to feel they are losing. In most games players like this develop a bad reputation and people stop wanting to play with them. I would also point out that, even in games without score graphs, players still bail whenever they feel like it. So score graphs off does not actually solve this problem. It also seems somewhat wrong that one must trick someone into playing.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Spreading misinformation is one thing, but this is something else. Scouts are cheap and any player who wants to put in the effort of spreading them everywhere, then counting up all the province coins, counting castles, replacing losses, and generally going through an enormous amount of micromanagement, can get the same information they would get from the score graphs. Only the players who want to go through all this hassle get the information. Other players, faced with this daunting task, just give up. Games are supposed to be enjoyable pastimes. Success in game should be based on investment skill, tactical skill, diplomatic skill, and knowledge of the game system, not on how much unpleasant micromanaging work one is willing to tolerate.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The information gained from spies is not even really the same as the information gained from the score graph. You can do (once again) more work, and convert spy-information into some approximation of scoregraph-information.

Again, players are faced with the choice of doing all kinds of disagreeable scutwork, or losing the game. Anything which deliberately makes the game unpleasant, in my opinion of course, is inherently bad.

[ July 11, 2004, 21:02: Message edited by: Sheap ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Just some thoughts:
Both of you have good points,indeed.
Personally I dont mind playing score graphs on/off.
With score graphs enabled you get nice information about what is going on right from start(which you cant with graphs off,since massive scouting takes time).
These informations can be very important for all kinds of diplomacy and make the life of the 1"uber-nation",if it exists,more difficult,since players more likely will ally against it quite fast.
Also you have something interesting to do every turn,when waiting for the next hosting time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Score graphs off make scouting more important and also more time consuming,thats right.
I very much like the feeling of not knowing exactly how strong my neighbours are and whats going on in other parts of the world because this results in a different diplomacy throughout the game,since exchanging informations between nations about "who is strong" or "who wages war" is more important.

Sheap has a very good point though:
Score graphs on is the natural option.
Also I think that most Multiplayer games are played with score graphs on,this seems therefore the normal setting.
Just For example,on Mosehansen server I think it is still impossible to disable them,therefore most players who play games over there,are used to score graphs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Now,since I didnt mention anything about the graphs when creating the topic and writing down the settings,most players for sure didnt even think about the possibility of disabling the graphs and maybe some of them wouldnt have wanted to play this game with score graphs off.
It seems logical for me because of this,that we play now with graphs on and skip more waiting until all players have voted,maybe resulting in a 6 vs 6 draw .

Another thing to consider:
Sheap is the host...and the host always is right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ July 11, 2004, 22:01: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I abstain on the vote of score graphs. Either way is fine with me, although I really wish there was an option to allow players to get a peek at them once every 10-20 turns or so. That would be cool.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

My vote can be purchased for the paultry sum of two-hundred pounds of gold. (I'm sitting this one out. Now there's a nice odd # of votes)

-YellowCactus

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This would be great.
Nice idea!

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

So,we have a total of 12 players now,Gandalf Parker has still not chosen a nation though.
Here is the final player list(in order of appearance):

Cohen(Abysia--Blood of Humans)
Boron(Marignon--Diabolical Faith)
Cainehill(Man--Last of Tuatha)
Gandalf Parker(nation undecided)
Sheap(Jotunheim--Iron Woods)
Reverend Zombie(C´tis--Desert Tombs)
Norfleet(Caelum--Return of the Raptors)
Mark the Merciful(Mictlan)
djtool(Pangaea--New Era or Carrion Woods)
YellowCactus(Tien Ch´i--Spring&Autumn)
CUnknown(Ulm--standard or Iron Faith)

Mardagg(Vanheim--Helheim)

The game is now closed and as soon as Sheap has set up the server,Pretenders are ready to upload.
Please renember that only certain themes are allowed for each nation.
The detailed list of the settings/allowed themes can be found at the start of this topic.

How about disabling the score graphs btw?

[ July 11, 2004, 12:26: Message edited by: Mardagg ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Based on the statement of Mardagg I will start the server later tonight (once I get home) with score graph on, and all the other server settings as specified in the thread's first post. I'll post the port and IP once that's done. I'll set the hosting time for 4 AM, U.S. Eastern time, since that's my preference and no one else seems to have one. Unless someone objects this will begin tomorrow night or maybe tonight if all pretenders are in by then.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Do you happen to have a memorable DNS of any kind, or would you like me to GIVE you one?

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'm down with either/or for the score graphs.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

OK. I am home now and have set up the server.

The server name is benatar.snurgle.org (or the IP, if you'd rather, is 24.8.118.21. But use the name, you'll be happier in the long run). The port is 2000. I disabled R'lyeh and Atlantis, all the other nations are open since Gandalf didnt make up his mind about what he wanted to play, but everyone please make sure you do the Right Thing when it comes to uploading your pretenders, and choosing themes.

Once I have all the pretenders I'll start the game. Let me know if you have troubles.

Who is in so far:
YellowCactus(Tien Ch´i--Spring&Autumn)
Norfleet(Caelum--Return of the Raptors)
Mardagg(Vanheim--Helheim)
Cohen(Abysia--Blood of Humans)
CUnknown(Ulm--standard or Iron Faith)
Boron(Marignon--Diabolical Faith)
Reverend Zombie(C´tis--Desert Tombs)
djtool(Pangaea--New Era or Carrion Woods)

Who is still out:
Cainehill(Man--Last of Tuatha)
Gandalf Parker(nation undecided)
Mark the Merciful(Mictlan)

[ July 12, 2004, 19:29: Message edited by: Sheap ]

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

Is the server down? I don't seem to be able to connect at the time of this posting.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was able to connect 1 minute ago.
Make sure,that you did enter the right server name and port.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I don't believe that the server is down. More people have uploaded their pretenders since the Last time I checked and I haven't given the server any attention. My advice is the same as Mardagg, be sure you put the right port and hostname in, spelling everything correctly and using .org and not .com. If you still have trouble try using the IP address instead of the name. If you still have trouble after that then I can try to work with you but we wil need to communicate via, for instance, ICQ or AIM in that case.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

The fault was mine; sorry for any alarm caused.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

I'm going to try doing an AAR on this game. Dunno if I can provide any insight into CW but wth.

Re: MP Game - no Quickhost closed
 

OK, we have only 3 people still out. I have to do some roaming, and may not get back until late tonight, but if all pretenders are in I will start the game then. It looks like generation of turn 2 will not be able to happen until tomorrow night, but, life goes on.

If all pretenders are not in by the time I want to start the game tonight, I will begin to bleet loudly.