Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

All right, question time: Seems to me that there are a lot of games going on on the Faerun map I made a couple of months ago, but I'd like to know just how popular that map really is. So please give me some feedback on it.

Reason being that the map files do need some updating (a few beighbor issues, I think, as well as most of the special indie forts needing axing), but I've not had much interest in doing that.

One of the reasons that I haven't had much interest for that is that I personally found the map as published...disappointing. There were criticisms about the number of provinces, about some of the indie provinces and how they could upset gameplay by giving some nations overly powerful advantages, and how it was difficult to see where provinces were. Most of these criticisms were spot on, and in the end I was privately rather upset with the end result despite its apparent popularity. For the record, I haven't played a single game on it for these reasons.

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NEW FAERUN (small)

Another reason I'm not particularly enthusiastic about updating the old map file without significant demand is because I made a whole new map using the old Faerun.tga as a base, and I think it's much better than the first Version. It's got a round 100 provinces less (324) than the original, all nations on the map, and almost all of the other problems inherent with the old map solved. Province flag positions are marked wih a black starburst, neighbors have been better checked (not complete yet, this phase, but in just two or three test games I found several that needed removal).

Most of the specials on the new map are the same as on the old one, some are new and many are improved over the old Version. There is also a Nospec Version of the map, with just fixed start locales and only three specially garrisoned provinces (port cities), everything else is left blank. Some start locales have also been changed for improved map balance (Abysia was rather badly shafted Last time around, this is now fixed).

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So, how much interest for the new Version?

In any case, you people have enough time on your hands to post in this thread, as I'll be offline and out of touch from Thursday morning until Sunday.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Personally I always prefer the x-large maps. Also according to Gandalf the x-large maps are the most popular downloads from his website... no opinions just facts. The larger the maps the more time players have to develop their empire and the larger the battles can be.
The starting locations of some players did provide a large advantage... but it's still a great map for the overall content. The best way the map can be improved is if the developers add a method/command where independents can be placed on patrolling. Then an army can be on the outside and inside of a castle.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

a 324 province map sounds good to me, better than the current size which seems too large even though i generally like large maps.

I'm about to play a game on the Faerun map and am disappointed that there are problems w/ it but thanks for making it anyway.

John

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I think a smaller Version of the current Faerun Map with more balanced starting position would be very good.
Personally,I think that around 300 provinces fit perfect for an epic Multiplayer battle as the upper maximum limit,whereas +400 are just one thing:too much.
For single player games,I actually do like the old Faerun map(just startetd an interesting game there) btw.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I think it's a great map. Beautiful and huge, but still with lots of detail everywhere. There is an appeal to the enormous number of provinces, even though it poses some insane time challenges for gameplay. Some people like enormous monster games, and this provides. There are of course also balance issues, and an advantage for people who know the map in advance versus those who are unfamiliar with it.

I haven't seen the new Version, so it's hard to know which I would prefer. They sound like they both offer different things, but the newer one is more refined and balanced. The larger one will probably still have its appeal thanks to sheer enormousness. Also I wonder how the black stars for flags will will look. Part of the appeal of the map is that it's very nice to look at, and clarity at the expense of black stars all over the place might be something I'd like to be able to turn off. If it's the same image and pixel size, though (is it??), players could just use the un-starred TGA.

PvK

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I'd like a lot Faerun map because it's huge.
I love huge games where is needed a long term planning of strategy.
I love too the Forgotten Realms world since I'm a D&D/AD&D player.

I love to know that in the map there're special locations with good magic sites or with a strategical importance, more than mere common provinces.

I'm sad to hear Faerun with less provinces.

However the current Faerun has some limits, while I like a lot starting position fixed in those sort of scenario map, some Nations start too close to them (like Marignon-Pythium) and other like Abysya (my preferred) started with 4 neighbouring land provinces, 3 of them with Indies set by map, very strong, and very hard to conquer, and 3 out of 4 were 1waste-2spawmps. And the waste was the free one.

I hope in better balance for sure, and I'd like to modify the current Faerun map if the map creator (Edi) allows me to do that.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I currently recommend playing the old Faerun map with starting locations disabled. Then all players are randomly placed onto the map.

Hopefully we will see new maps with 400 or more provinces in the future too! The bigger the maps the bigger the battles.

[ July 07, 2004, 16:36: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I am currently playing as C'Tis Desert Tombs on the Faerun map and am enjoying it quite a bit. It's the first time I will finish out the research tree while there is still significant opposition left on the map, so I get to try out lots of cool stuff, like Wish. The fact that there are neat special sites scattered around the map (some of them very tough) has made things interesting throughout. It took me many turns and three castle storming attempts to finally take over the City of Shadows right near the C'Tis starting position. When I finally killed Horus Ra with a lucky Disintegrate it was a very proud moment.
I would love to have an updated Version of the big map for the next time I want to try out an epic game. A smaller Version would be cool, too, but I am not as excited about that because, as has been said earlier, there are other well done small maps, but not really any other large maps with as much effort put into them.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Bobum and I just started a game on the Faerun map (with a lot of AI nations). Too early yet to say much other than the fact that it's a beautiful map. I would be very curious though to see your updated Version. Is that one already available?

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

The new Version is not available Online yet, I'm just sounding out the general feelings about the large Faerun (the old one) and people's feelings about a smaller Version, which would naturally not have any impact on the availability of the old Version.

I was kind of expecting this two-fold response, that some would prefer a slightly smaller map and others would object to having the number of provinces cut.

It is my opinion that the smaller map is better suited for multislayer games because it won't take quite as much (that being relative, mind you) time to finish a game, it's better balanced and it still has huge scope. The old one gives me a constricted feeling whenever I try to start a game on it, there are too many too closely spaced provinces that hem you in and turn the map into a slow, slogging morass. Personal opinion, of course, I know some of you like the huge maps, especially for SP games.

PvK, the black stars I talked about are no bigger than the common city/village markers on the map, they just denote province location so you know where to look for places to go. One of the criticisms I remember was Zen or somebody else saying it was difficult to even locate provinces on the map, even with the neighbors filter on. Now there's a very small black star marked around the white pixel to show clearly, yet unobtrusively, where the provinces are. Much, much better than the old hide and seek game, I've noticed in test games.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming and I'll get back to it next Monday, I need to log off in just a couple of minutes. But looks like there is quite enough demand for a revised map file for the old Faerun map. I'll probably reshuffle some start locations to reflect the newer Version, because it works better that way.

I'll also give you a nospec Version which cuts the specials out and it can be played just like any generic map. The update will take a while, though, because the map is so large.

Also in the works: A Dragonlance map, based on the downloadable poster map, but it still needs province assignment and is a long way from being complete. It's also going to be highly thematic, but you'll also get all three varieties (normal thematic, quickstart and nospec) to begin with when I'm done. Expect that to take a while, though. I want to have time to also play instead of just making maps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now, see you all on Monday.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myself, I look forward to a somewhat lower province count, but even more, I look forward to the black stars on the map: The current map is incredibly hard to play races like Vanheim, Caelum, CotW Marignon and others with non-standard movement. Others are bad enough, because Illwinter hasn't done the minor tweak to allow the color of the neighbors filter to be changed, and the lines are almost invisible on much of Faerun (and a couple other maps).

But trying to do ocean movement, or flyers - Caelum's / Pangaea's flying scouts - is frustrating in the extreme currently.

Hrm. If Illwinter put a Question Mark sigil in place of the candle for "unknown" provinces, that'd help too - after all, most maps you can see the provinces via the borders drawn on the map anyway.

Anyways, looking forward to the new map.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Oh, well some said that a good idea must get some detractors...

So I am not really interested by a new faerun map. I am having big fun playing on the current one.

I like big maps, and the current size seems almost perfect for me. I would prefer some refinements such as state borders, or why not a faerun mod with orcs, elfs, barbarians etc... battling it for godness ! Think about it.

Big map enabled me to finish the research tree and to use some big bad spells/summons with a deadly opposition battling me. On a small map, it is more likely the game will be decided by the time you finish the research tree.

The current faerun map is indeed a craft of skill, a brillant display of work. If you want to improve it, please draw the borders on it, but nothing else.

Last, I especially loved this map because it was faerun. I was not battling in a nameless world, but in the forgotten realms. I also loved the middle earth map, even if it was only part of a continent, not a full world as in faerun.

[ July 20, 2004, 14:21: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Hello, thanks for all your effort!

I actually Emailed you with my feedback a while ago after DLing and trying out your map, but maybe it got spammed.

Your map is beautiful. I do not play on it, however, because it is just too large for me. 320 Provs sounds much better (that is still about 18-20 pro nation methinks).

Also, I like Machaka, and I tested your map on with Machaka, and found I had just way too much room.

Another issue was that I could not figure out the borders of the provinces; some type, even very subtle, would be helpful, especially because the "neigbors" filter is almost impossible to see (for me) against a light background. This was very frustrating at times. If your new and improved map were to have some borders, I would greatly like that.

I know nothing about Faerun -- where does it come from? Is this some popular fantasy author?

Thanks very much in advance.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">faerun is the main world of d&d .
you said in another post that you owned neverwinter nights . it plays on faerun too .

the swordcoast , baldurs gate , amn , beregost ... ( locations from bg 1 + 2 ) , icewind dale and neverwinter , waterdeep and so on ( locations from nwn ) , the aunaroch ( nwn shadows of unrentide ) all can be found on the faerun map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

there are other planes like the ones where you play on planescape torment in the d&d universe too but it is the main world http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

unfortunately i am no d&d expert and know it only from pc games .
i myself played for a long time DSA aka Das schwarze Auge with friends as pen&paper rpg .

but d&d is the most known fantasy pen & paper rpg in the world i think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Faerun : The Forgotten Realms is the fantasy world created in role play game Ad&d, who has been used in several computer RPG such as baldur's gate 1&2, icewind dale 1&2, neverwinter night and some I did not play.

This world's description is comprehensive and gave numerous RPG players long hours of game play.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Ah right thanks -- I knew it sounded familiar. I played D&D a lot too, but always had my own worlds (usually Tolkeinesque in nature)....

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Where can I download the faerun map? i checked arryns website, and ilwinter's. Can someone pleese supply a url?

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

http://www.dom2minions.com/~tmpspace

Filename is Faerun.zip, but you shouldn't hurry too much. I'm asking a friend to upload both the new targa for the old Faerun map, the map files and the whole baggage for the new and smaller Faerun, so you'd better wait a couple of days.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Might I suggest that the next time you cannot find a file you're looking for that you send me an email asking me to make it available? It might save you some time and aggravation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Assuming that Edi doesn't mind, I've put the file up on my site (so that people won't have to go crawling through forum Posts looking for a link), in RAR format which saves a bit of space and thus some download time. (My site also has much more download bandwidth.)

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

No, I most definitely do NOT mind, Arryn. Thank you! Now just one question about your site: Does it have some kind of grudge against Mozilla? Because every single time I've tried to access it through the link in your sig, I get a timeout. Tracert places the timeout at the IP address 63.99.192.7, while according to ping info (100% packet loss) the site should be at 63.99.213.19. Do you have any idea if the problem has something to do with my browser (Mozilla 1.5) or is it related to something else?

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

At first, you really should update to Version 1.71 ..

Second, unless you missconfigured your proxy settings, this is unlikely to be Mozilla's fault.
The link in the sig works fine for me (Moz1.71/Win32)

More likely your internet providers has a DNS problem, something which is normally solved within hours.

hope this is helpful
A.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I'm not using a proxy, just straight connection through dial-up. This problem isn't new either, I haven't been able to access the site for weeks. I'll see what the update does first, though. I'm on a Win32 system also.

Edi

[ July 23, 2004, 08:28: Message edited by: Edi ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Looks like it's an ISP problem. Times out every time I try through the usual dial-up, but when I used another ISP's dial-up line to connect, it loaded with no problems at all.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Edi,

I'm new to dominions (but seen many a turn based strategy, esp in the fantasy genre), so take this for what it's worth. I've just downloaded and started a game on Faerun, and it is indeed a beautiful map. While it sounds like a good idea to make a second, smaller and more MP oriented Faerun, I would not disparage your work the first time around. Often MP and SP are at odds, and some of the complaints you mention in your first crack at Faerun seem to me to be endemic in a the best possible SP map (namely unbalanced starting locations and special indie forts).

While Dominions 2 looks to be an awesome game (that I've already spent far too much time on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), it's obvious strength is MP. From what I've seen so far, your Faerun map is the closest thing to "content" available for Dominions 2. In doing your Dragonlance maps, I for one would encourage you to go a similar route that you did for Faerun. IMO, focusing on a rich map that recalls existing fantasy content, with lots of special locations (perhaps letting game balance/play take second place), will go further to fill gaps in whats available in the Dom2 universe. If you were to again take a second cut to make a MP oriented Version, so much the better for us lucky beneficiaries. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On a side note, I found the Faerun.tga to be very "pastel" on my monitor (NEC Diamondtron-MultiSync FP2141SB). It looks good, but it's hard to play on (too bright), so I toned the brightness down in Photoshop, and it now looks wonderful. I know that monitors vary a lot, so it becomes impossible to produce colors that work universally, but I thought I'd mention this as perhaps others have experienced this problem.

- Thufir

[ July 24, 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: Thufir ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Thanks, Thufir, this is exactly the kind of feedback I love to get.

Thing is, the smaller (if you can call a 324-prov map small) is already done, Iäll just get it uploaded this week, and an updated targa with the province locations marked in the graphic for the original one, as well as updated (and significantly improved, especially on start balance) map files (also to be uploaded), so there will be twice as much Faerun goodness to go around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll see about the brightness thing, but I'm not sure I'll actually do anything, I can leave it up to people to modify t if they find it necessary. So far, I haven't, but good point there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The problem I'm having with the pastel colour scheme can't be fixed by fiddling with the monitor.

The problem is that the neighbours filter is fairly mandatory for this map, but the contrast between the neighbour link lines and the map's coloration is very small. I often have difficulty seeing those very important lines.

But otherwise, it's a great map (albeit a tad large) - thanks!

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I'll try fiddling with the brightness settings on the map, shading it a bit darker and seeing how that works. I tried cursorily and it was a bit easier on the eyes, just needs every damned province marker modified back to white.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Edi, just to say I really love your faerun map, and I eagerly await your dragonlance map. Even if I would have prefered a greyhawk map (never played in dragonlance world).

[ July 27, 2004, 16:03: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

When are we gonna see the new Version Edi? If you are still working on it, please take your time. But I for one am eagerly awaiting the new smaller Version of Faerun.

Thanks

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

sigh... front topic, I'll try again.

[ July 30, 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: Esben Mose Hansen ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

The maps are both ready, it's just a question of uploading them. I'll get my friend to do that from work, since uploading two packages of around 20 MB each through a 56k pipe just isn't feasible. With JK being on vacation, I don't know when I can put them on Illwinter's site, but we'll put them to Gandalf's server and Arryn will probably (hopefully anyway) get them from there and host them on her site.

Sometime next week, I hope. I fiddled with the brightness settings of the map, and cutting it down by 20 points eliminated the problem with the neighbor filter arrow visibility, so that much good came out of the delay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure. If you'd like, you can also email-attach the .zip files to me. I have unlimited-capacity inboxes, so 20mb files aren't a problem for me.

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

I would, Arryn, but again the pipe wich the emails would go through is only 56k wide and a single TCP-error during transfer (not all that uncommon on modem connections with files that big) will just screw it up. My friend has faster connections at work, but a very limited inbox, so he'll FTP the files to Gandalf's server when I get to give them to him on CD (sometime next week) and you'll have an easier time getting them from there.

Damn but I need to switch to broadband...

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Yey! great, can hardly wait. Thanks much Edi! (And to those hosting it too!)

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Hey Edi, you're in Europe, right? If it is really that tough to send, you can (physically) mail me a CD per post to Germany and I can email it then to Arryn or whomever. Or have you given up?

EDIT you can PM me for my physical house address, maybe if you send that to my office I can have the charges covered here?

[ August 03, 2004, 13:59: Message edited by: tinkthank ]

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

No need, I'm seeing my friend tomorrow, and he can upload the files to Gandalf's server on Thursday. Mailing CDs is troublesome and costs more money than I'm willing to pay. A couple of days more waiting is not going to kill anyone.

I can understand the impatience, though. After all, I did announce the updates quite a while ago, but this thing called Real Life(tm) tends to interfere and has been throwing stuff at me for quite a bit. Another thing came up today which is going to push the Dragonlance map into some as yet undetermined future date, namely, I happened to get a job.

What I am going to do is get myself broadband the next time I do an overhaul of my machine (time to finally get rid of the vanilla Win98 (not SE) I've been running on ever since 1997), and when I do, there will be no more of this tedious arranging stuff through third parties.

Edi

Re: Popularity of the Faerun Map?
 

Hey thanks much!
And congratulations on the job!! (hope it is a nice one!) Well, RL sure can be a pain at times, I know for sure, but getting a job will certainly exacerbate the situation!
I didnt mean to sound impatient, although I am sure I am, just sort of wanted to try to help out.
anyhow, thanks tons, and best to you