MP Research strategy help
 

Ok I have a few multiplayer games under my belt now and after a few learning games (getting my a## handed to me) I Have become comfortable with most of the games strategies. What I always seem to lack though in my games (even if winning them)is in research levels. I may control close to half of a map but I still seem to be behind in research. I purchase as many mages as seems appropriate and even equip them with research items but that still does not help. My instict is telling me everyone is using Skull Mentors in mass. Anyone wish to share thier (MP)Research strategies?

Thanks

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

I notice here that you say you are buying "mages" and not "sages". Was this just a typo or are you really not recruiting sages? Sages are the #1 researcher par none.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

What do you mean with "as appropriate"?

Imho, with most nations, on turn 10 you should have 9 mages. After that at least one mage/turn until you get another castle, after which it's 2 mages a turn.

Magic and research is the essence of winning anything but the very smallest games, so having as huge mage pool as possible is a rather damned good idea.

So, what mages to build?

I personally first make the ones that can help my early game (on pythium cheapest theurgs with astral magic for BE, etc), then for those with randoms so i can get the useful combinations, then enough national mages so i have the combat mage power i need not soon after(like arch seraphs for caelum, or the cheaper theurg for pythium), and then Last just all sages so I can quickly get the spells I need. Also, 'cos sages cost so little, purchasing them while going for other targets is also a good idea.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I state the word mages as a general term. I of course hire sages if I find them. What I am looking for is a more detailed example like:

Nation: x
x - mage with x/x items (as you primary researcher)

and your strategy on how to get there

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

Hmm...I wonder about Tuna's strategy. All those mages while great at research will soak you on upkeep.

I typically go for a mass of druids because they are sacred (and I seem to find them all the time).

But also sages, witches, gnomes, alchemists, whatever random finds I can get.

National mages for some reason seem to be less cost effective for me so I only get just a few of them. Maybe it's just my situation I'm in for my current SP game.

To answer your question, I shoot for 10 dedicated researchers equiped with lanterns and quills by turn 30 or so. Sometimes it's just quills because fire mages are hard to come by (as Jotun). that's my early plan. Than I slowly up to 15 or 20 researchers and swap out the quills for skull mentors.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

With certain nations, like C'tis and Caelum, I try to recruit a mage every turn in every fort. Most of these mages will be set to research. Doing this, I've managed to stay ahead of the pack in research.

Some nations & strategies are just better equipped for researching than others.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

All those Skull Mentors, Quills, and Lanterns cost a lot of gems. 10 Skull Mentors is 100 Death gems. Usually by turn 30 I haven't even accumulated 100 Death gems, much less 100 Death gems that haven't been used for something else (Dark Knowledge, other items, summons, etc).

How do you manage such a strong commitment to research and still maintain an effective army?

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

Well my first priority is get some Earth weenie making Dwarven hammers. Then I have a dedicated forger for each school of magic. So within the first 20 turns I have at least 1 quill and 1 lantern being made every turn. It's slow but eventually everyone is upgraded and researching.

So my fire guy and air guy, cranking out quills and lanterns, each equiped with a hammer, use less gems to make the goods. Capiche?

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So you plunk down 40 Earth gems in the first 20 turns for a chance to save 1 air gem on each quill and 1 fire gem on each lantern? So in 20 more turns you have recouped your cost, after spending a total of 80 air, 80 fire, and 40 earth. It shifts the cost around a bit, but it still doesn't get around the fact that it's a huge investment of gems. I guess maybe I'm not site-searching effectively, but I rarely seem to have the sort of gem income to support those costs.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

Mmmm....a little different than that.

1st forging = 1 dwarven hammer 20 earth gems
2nd forging = 1 dwarven hammer at 15 earth gems
(earth weenie gets 1st hammer so all stuff is now 25% off)

The quill drops to 3 air gems I think?

But the lantern drops from 10 fire to 7.

I TRY to get a dwarven hammer built first...but if I start a game and don't have a bunch of earth gems then obviously I pay full price.

Mind you, I don't statistically track gem usage or effeciency. There are better ways to do this. But during all this I'm probably fighting a 2 front war and using up huge amounts of gold on troops (and believe me I alchemy A LOT).

So that's pretty much it....

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

I'd never forge Quills, since 3 ResPoints are too few for 5 Air Gems.

Skull Mentors are good only for certain Nations, while Fireless Lanterns are very good.

Usually many players goes for Magic Scale too, that is a far better enhancment than forging research items.

In a long stand a bonus research for every mage will prove very useful, not to count that depending on Nation enemies fighting in your dominion will lose 1 point in MR (this is good especially against Undead Ermor, or if you count on mass Soul Slay or such things).

In the firsts turns try to get the best mages you can since you need to unleash your Pretender with spell buffs asap to get provinces (so more gold, to better mages).

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

A Few Corrections...

Lightless Lantern: 5 Fire Gems, 3 with a Dwarven Hammer

Owl Quill: 5 Air Gems, 3 with a Dwarven Hammer

I'm with Cohen. Consider Magic 3 if you want to be a researching superpower.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're missing an important point: Quills are available at Construction 2, Lanterns are available at Constr 6. If you're in dire need for research boosters, I assume you probably picked a drain scale. Then you can still research Constr 2 in 5 turns or so, while researching Constr 6 may take you, say, 30 turns. In a game that Lasts 60 turns, a Quill you forged in turn 10 will net you 150 research points over time. A Lantern you forged in turn 35 will be worth 150 research points too. More, you get the Quill research bonus earlier, which is an advantage you shouldn't underestimate (think about it as a 'research integral', if you like maths).

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This seems to be the point here. I use pretty much all the gold on mages and their upkeep because I think there is not really all that much other stuff that is worth more than them. I quess we all agree that 90 or 100 gold spent on Seithkorna or Seraph gives you more overall combat power than spending that in troops. After getting eagle eyes and nether darts, the Seithkorna can wipe out 9-10 normal troops with impunity even on the second round of combat, making it hugely more powerful.

Thus I believe that gold spent on troops gives you just some combat power, while gold spent on mages gives you some (less) immediate combat power, but also research, which gives huge amounts of potential combat power.

Now, with the Jotun utgard as an example: 1st case, I spend all my gold on troops, from turn one until I make contact. I get some decent expansion speed for the start, but next to no research. 2nd case: I get one seithkorna a turn, use excess gold on troops. With the starting troops and my pretender, I can take perhaps one indie province a turn, and also I'm racking up some research. When i meet th jotuns in the first example, I have gotten nether bolt and eagle eyes. When we meet, I use troops as a meat shield and do the combat with my mages, they get decimated. I meet the second opponent, who by now has a huge empire, but because my research increases by 8 every turn (magic scale is obviously integral to my strategy), I'll have nether darts and the second opponent will feel massive pain. With the huge research I have it'll be easy to pick important other spells like relief.

IMHO, the only thing you should care about early game is research and survival, because when you have enough research it guarantees your survival.

And, so that my jotun example isn't the only example, some other importnant research goals:

C'tis and Conj-9 (well of misery, ghost riders, legion of wights, get pretender with lots of death)
Caelum, Evo-6, Const-4, Ench-4 (Wrathful skies, staff of storms, cloud trapeze)
Pythium, Thau 4, alt 2, conj-4 (paralyse, quickness, light of the northern star)

All those stuff can be protected against with some research and/or effort, but the point is getting them so fast and hitting the enemy so early they simpy have no time for getting some protection.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

With Pythium I prefer go first Thau 5 for Soul Slaying.
Light of the Northern Star isn't so useful for Pythium as for other nations like Abysya, because Pyth has commies that in early game does pretty well, second, far better to use the Banner, you avoid fatigue and continual gem expenditure.

Quills are Const-2, yes, lanterns are Const-6, true.
But the 5 air gems I spend in the Quills could be used in more better ways. Yes if I take Drain-3 I could think on quills, but I doubt I'd take Drain scale anymore unless is mandatory by race or game settings.

With 5 Air Gems I can do cloud trapezes or a call of the wind (useful to try to grab an enemy province or to see exactly what an enemy army has inside and which spells are scripter in first one or two rounds), and if I mass gems I could do far more (mass seeking arrows, storm staves and helmets and so on).

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lol. Just fininshed reading Princess Bride for the first time few hours ago. Before that I would have no idea where your nickname and your signuture regarding 6-fingred man came from. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Great book.

Re: MP Research strategy help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Admittedly, the 6-fingered man quote is not quite as amusing as his various other classics, including "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." and, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means."