A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I feel like a heel, but here it is: a Wishlist for 2.13!!

For me, the "wishes" should be half-way realistic, and are thus prioritized according to their importance divided by the amount of time I imagine it would take to implement them.


Thus it starts of humble and gets more and more dreamy.... It is a wish list after all!

1. Bugfix: Rehiring Mercs set to half price by default
2. Bugfix: "Goto Commander" in message screen works for reports on sneaking commanders and assasins
3. BugFix: Call of the Wilds forest only
4. Tactical AI: Partial resistances to X do not block a scripted "cast resist X"
5. Dispel should be castable underwater
6. UI change: f12 scrolls through forts; f11 scrolls through hidden/stealthy commanders; f10 switches between prophet and pretender; f9 scrolls through mages with forge bonus
7. UI change: "put into lab" option in "Transfer Item" screen set to top, "Throw Away" set to bottom with a small space before commanders
8. Full battle reports after Storming Castle
9. Some Icons added! ( this thread here)
10. UI change: shift-f1 displays commanders alphabetically, shift-f2 displays them in order of their type, shift-f3 displays them in order of their action queue (as it is presently)
11. UI change: From the "View Commander" (Inventory/rename) screen, give us (a link to) the button "SET BATTLE ORDERS" (gives us the troop view of that commander and his scripted orders)
12. Strategic AI: Fort-building Algorithm
13. Strategic AI: Troop-building Algorithm
14. Bugfix: Perpetual Storm does not *strategically* ground those able to fly during storms
15. Fountain of Blood for Vanheim!! (argh!!)
16. UI change: "A message from X to Y" on top of message screen when sending Messages in-game; "Sending Item(s)/Gems to Y" on -screen when sending Messages
17. UI change: Merc Bids defined per number pad instead of +/- clicking
18. UI change: f5-Research lets you define research numbers per number pad (instead of +/- clicking)
19. Interface / Tactical AI: In Spell Queue, all spells can be clicked either "disabled", "low priority", "medium priority", or "high priority"
20. BugFix: Replay/Report discrepancy ( see this thread here)
21. Tweakage: Increasing Sexiness of Tien BK by some nice but not too powerful means I leave up to others to decide (pillage bonus, lesser berserker ability on the cav I find thematic)
22. Balance Changes: NONE!!!

What do you think?

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that these two demands are mutually contradictory. Isn't tweaking a theme, albeit a currently crappy theme, to make it useful, a balance change by definition? I think what you probably meant was "no more nerfing".

[ July 15, 2004, 10:54: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that these two demands are mutually contradictory.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Must you always put your finger on my open wounds??? Argh!!

Quote:

Isn't tweaking a theme, albeit a currently crappy theme, to make it useful, a balance change by definition? I think what you probably meant was "no more nerfing".

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I meant primarily "no more nerfing", yes (clams, etc.); but I also meant: If there is any tweakage to be done, it should be done out of the motivation for increased sexiness (= fun with playing that race), and not because there is consensus that it is too powerful or not powerful enough (e.g. "nerf that!" or "that unit is too expensive!")

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Some way to view the magic paths of mages with randoms without having to examine every single one would be nice. I always find myself renaming sages according to their random pick in order to better manage them.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The nation overview (F1) manages this quite well, only I find some paths' colors (fire, some other) hard to see from the background. Might have something to do with me being partially colorblind, though. But the overview isn't what you're after?

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I want the Skratti and Warlock back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The nation overview (F1) manages this quite well, only I find some paths' colors (fire, some other) hard to see from the background.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Too bad that clicking on the mage in the overview doesn't select that mage though. Makes it a pain if you have a lot of mages in one province (researching, forging, summoning, etc), especially if renaming isn't turned on and you have 5 with the same name.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh right, that might be it. Never really got into the swing of using the nation overview except for managing unrest.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Good list. One addition comes to mind:

Sacred Templar Commander for Iron Faith Ulm

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like the concept, but it seems like too much work to go thru every spell for every mage and select its priority or lack thereof. I'd be happy if they just implemented a simple Cast Spell 'x' order like I mentioned a day or two ago.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

nice wishlist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
2 small suggestions come to my mind which should be very easy too :
1. a hotkey for alchemizing fire / earth gems to gold ( or is there already one i don't know ? )
in dominions 1 that hotkey was G but i don't know one for dominions 2

2. add command : monthly forge item x which works like monthly cast ritual spell x

would be really helpful for clamhording etc.

3. for mictlan : if you klick pool bloodslaves keep the ones which should be sacrificed for domain and only pool the rest

4. make crossbreeding units like foul spawns / hybrids / black hawks upkeepfree

edit : lol it were actually more than 2 suggestions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ July 15, 2004, 12:14: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I agree with almost previous listed.
I'd add as prioritary:

Item Revies, especially for Draining Life weapons, Wraith Swrod, Blood Thorn and Hellsword are almost the lone weapons used by SCs, and are far more stronger than some of the uniques weapons. I'd like to see more variety. And I believe those items requires a "nerf" ...

I'd like to see to a total reviewed Wish (spell) listing. Armageddon totally screws up the game IMO, while other stuff like obtaining random provinces (usually far from your ones and hardly defendable), a 300 militiamen, or such things instead aren't really worthing. Why not to add some certain summons obtainable only via Wish?

I add something not prioritary but that I'd like to see:

See new Mercs and Indies to recruit.

Some new magic sites regarding new castles and recruits.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you're arguing against the fundamental nature of combat here. The reason those weapons are by far the most popular is because they play to the fundamental nature of combat: In *ANY* game, lifestealing is nearly a must-have commodity, and any fighter who lacks it pales in comparison to one who has it. However, it's entirely possible to get it by other means other than those weapons: Bone Armor, or Soul Vortex, do the job as well, and allow the user to wield a different weapon.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's called a DOOM HORROR, Cohen. Wish doesn't really need more incentive to exist.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks.
I happen to disagree strongly about this suggestion here, not only for methodological reasons (NO BALANCE CHANGES!!!) -- I don't want them to be upkeep free. There is a reason these cheaply accessable fodder units cannot be stockpiled in the thousands without having to think twice about it.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Norfleet, your reasoning why lifedraining swords shouldn't be nerfed is flawed.

The arguement for nerfing lifedrain goes like this: Lifedrain is a must-have. Anything that is a "must-have" is too powerful and needs to be nerfed or made more expensive. Therefore, any cheaply available lifedraining items in the game need to be nerfed.

Your counter-arguement (as I understand it) has two parts and goes like this:

1) Lifedrain is a must-have in any game, so it's okay that it's a must-have here.

This doesn't counter the "lifedrain needs to be nerfed" arguement because lifedrain is still a "must-have".

2) You can get lifedrain by other means than weapons, so lifedrain doesn't need to be nerfed.

This simply doesn't follow. Cheaply available lifedrain in either weapon or armor form still needs to be nerfed since it is a "must-have."

I agree that any "must-have" in a strategy game takes away the strategy, and so I agree with nerfing lifedrain items, or making them more expensive. I think a good nerf would be to cap the maximum hitpoints at 100%, so you couldn't go over your maximum. As I understand it, lifedrain lets you go over your maximum hitpoints, which seems incredibly powerful to me.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's not a "must-have." At least, not in the every-single-player-must-use-it-or-they-will-fail-miserably-and-die-a-lonely-person sense. It's a must-have for a single type of strategy, namely, a Super Combatant (hell, it isn't even a must-have then, but still). Saying something should be nerfed because most everyone gives it to their SC just makes me think, "Why?" Clams should be nerfed because all Clamhording strategies are based on clams. All Rainbow mages should be nerfed, since every RM strategy needs one. Undeads should be nerfed, since two Ermor themes use those almost completely, which means they're obviously overpowered, or else why would they use them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Simply I find totally unlogical to have lifedraining weapons stronger than unique weapons (const-8) because they replenish your life and stamina.

They do the job for:

Spells that heals and reinvigorates AND items that regenerates and reinvigorates.

Probably if I get an Ember, or a Summit, my character will find too soon fatigued out by drain life if going toe-to-toe against on wratih sword equipped character, or fatigued too against an army, unless he's ... lemme see ... undead or something similar Encumbrance 0?

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Duncanish-

I was just pointing out flaws in Norfleet's reasoning. To attack the position that 'x should be nerfed', you should either argue that it's not a must-have (as you did), or try to argue that must-haves aren't bad for strategy games (which would be very difficult).

I don't have enough experience with this game to know if lifedrain is a must-have or not, but I've read Norfleet Posts saying it is, and I believed him.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are some things which are simply fundamental the very nature of combat, such as the concept of damage. Lifedrain falls into this: Without it, your choices of option are very much limited to fatigue-free, high-regeneration chassis options, and really, there aren't any available until very late in the game. Furthermore, my point was arguing that while lifedrain is fundamental to the very nature of combat in Dom2, lifedraining *WEAPONS* are not a necessity.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Life draining weapons tend to be either poor in damage, or two-handed, or both, compared to these unique items. They are not even strictly necessary to have only on WEAPONS, as lifedrain can be acquired elsewhere.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless, of course, he manages to kill or incapacitate his opponent using his more powerful unique weapon before this happens. You obviously haven't tried some of the nicer artifact weapons.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I must say, watching Ember make 3 troops go poof in a single attack is rather nifty, and Magebane certainly makes quick work of putting things to sleep, but in general, that's not enough for an SC to take out an entire army by itself. Well - when it's undead, 0 encumbrance, and has over 100 HPs, high armor, and is regenerating maybe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some of the other artifact weapons seem ... underwhelming though, compared to a Wraith blade or Blood Thorn (paired with a high strength).

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">On the flipside, some of these weapons are quite damaging and host nasty special effects on those hit, which makes them very useful when you're taking on only a single target, such as an opposing-force SC, where fatigue is not a serious problem.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I must say, watching Ember make 3 troops go poof in a single attack is rather nifty, and Magebane certainly makes quick work of putting things to sleep, but in general, that's not enough for an SC to take out an entire army by itself. Well - when it's undead, 0 encumbrance, and has over 100 HPs, high armor, and is regenerating maybe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some of the other artifact weapons seem ... underwhelming though, compared to a Wraith blade or Blood Thorn (paired with a high strength). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Much as I hate to agree, but it is true. I don't really want to cry "nerf lifedraiing weapons!", but I wouldn't mind something to be done with them. I mean - let's face it!

We all know that 90-95% of weapons used in competitive MP games are wraithswords/blootthorns/HellSwrod. It is fact of life, nobody can argue with that.

Sure, few unique artifacts, (which are con 8! vs Con4) are certanly better than Wraitsword.

You may also use one or two 1h weapon, if you want a sheid such as charcoal on SC, like lucky sword or quickswrord for special SC design. Andof course you don't use such weapon vs undead or lifeless forces. But that's it. Everything else is highly situational, while Wraitsword and L are bread and butter of any decent SC in veteran SC.

What about other 100 cool weapons? I used them all in SP. But in MP between professionals, it usually just not worth it. Everybody and they grandmother are runing around with wraitswords and bloodthrons.


Please understand me correctly. I don't think it has the highest priority. If it comes to nerf, I would much rather see clams nerfed, or make temples destractable by the order of enemy commander instead of auto-destruct as it isnow, in order to reduce madcastling. These are my main two hopes for the upcoming patch. To make lifedrainig weapons less prominent would be nice. Or buff up other weapons, however nerfing 3 weapons are much easer than buffing 100 others. But I'll not be too heartbroken if it'll not happen, although I wil be glad if it will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Bottom line is - it's not that I hate lifedraining weapons, they are cool. But I would like to see all other nice weapons used as well much more often than they are being used now. (and please, don't pile me up with exapmples of single weapon uses, or some special anti-Sc situation when you want to use that dagger or this Flamerge. I know all this. But Wraithswords and its keens are still bread and butter by wide margin, and we all know it.)

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I know too little about competetive MP between "professionals", as SB put it, and thus I am very very wary with the yell for the nerf stick.

However, CU seems to have a good point: Dom2 is most excellent for more than two reasons, but primarily in my eyes for these two reasons, both of which are inexorably intertwined with one another:
1. It is buckets of fun
2. There is no one single "must have" strat

(I think 1 is partly true because of 2)

Therefore, CU makes a good point: If something appears "must have", then it is dangerous to the very nature of Dom2. Norfleet (a professional along with SB and you others) claims it is a must have. (I dont use SCs, but I'm a dork, and surely I will lose in a competetive environment.)
(Btw: this logic cannot be used against so-called "clam hoarding" or pleas to change the Moloch: The Moloch, for instance, can still be used wonderfully without having his imps nerfed (but not only as an SC).

I still think that balance changes in a wish list need to be clarified and specified completely, otherwise you get a bigger problem (Ancient American Wisdom: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it").

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's because the other weapons tend to be specialized in purpose. Not all weapons are intended to be carried by SCs. Summer Swords, for instance, provide lots of supply, but are not weapons you would give to an SC to carry. Gatecleavers are great for busting your way into a fort, but, once again, are not really weapons you'd have an SC carry: You give this to some flunky to carry for when the opposition is dispatched. Elfbanes are not weapons you'd normally use unless your opponent is fielding a large number of mechanical mans....but fielding a large number of mechanical mans, which are lifeless and cannot be drained, *IS* the counter to lifedraining attacks - it makes these weapons useless.

Other weapons are great for giving to random flunky commanders, so that they can cast spells in battle...and not be sidetracked because they have nothing else to cast. Phoenix Rods, Drain Life Banners, all these are great tools to hand to a scout or Joe Ordinary commander.

A lifedrain weapon, on the other hand, is the obvious and natural weapon of choice for somebody who's going to be mixing it up in the thick of things with a load of ordinary units on his ***: The preferred weapon of the SC. However, not all SCs need to use this combo: You can get more punch out of, say, Bone Armor and a Sword of Swiftness, than you will out of simply slapping a Wraith Sword on somebody. It's just that these weapons don't gather as much press because you can't just slap them onto anything with decent combat stats and watch him go kill things.

Just because a weapon is specialized or intended for a purpose you don't use, doesn't mean it's worthless. There are only a few truly crappy weapons on the list, like the Knife of the Damned...which is intended to be given to a sacrificial lamb to die and give to somebody on the other side, obviously.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

lifedrain seems really to be a must have in most fantasy games for fighters .
just look at diablo 2 . every fighter without at least 10% lifedrain and 5% manadrain was quite useless at least at higher levels .
in age of wonders 2 shadow magic lifedrain was very nice too and especially for heros very important .

i think it is a almost general fantasy game problem . but it just belongs to fantasy . vampires ... without lifedrain are very unstylish + unsexy .

in dominions 2 i have to little expierience yet . but as someone stated against lifeless creatures it is not working . how does this exactly work ?
do you still do damage but not refresh life or do you even do no damage ?

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Lifedraining weapons are not a must have, they are just a simple answer to the need to plan for life & fatigue restoring in a SC, but you can get those through many other different ways.

In fact, in SC dueling I would rather class them as suboptimal, unless wielded by a *very* high strength critter.

They excel at mopping standard troops, but that's about it.

[ July 16, 2004, 09:46: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Damage is caused, but fatigue and health are not replenished.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is true, although many more item slots may be required for this: To substitute for not using lifedrain, you need both reinvigoration in excess of the unit's modified encumberance rating, and you need a whackload of regeneration.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In SC duelling, fights are typically short and brutal, so endurance in the form of perpetual reinvigoration is a nonissue. Of course, this just underscores the idea that tanks and tank-killers, are similar, yet have different requirements. A tank, being your typical SC, requires a weapon that is flexible and useful on the a variety of targets that it may encounter. A tank-killer, an anti-SC, only needs to be able to destroy tanks.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

On gaining regeneration & reinvigoration through other means:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or no items slots at all, as you can gain both externally from spells, while using your slots for duelling gear.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. Getting into the fight with no fatigue certainly helps (no penalties to att, deff & chance of armour piercing hit), but once you are hacking at each other it's mostly about att vs def, and damage yielded vs protection...and there are better weapons for that than the lifedraining ones, even at lower research levels.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Certainly this is viable, but oftentimes a good tank-killer is most likely to get his best hits in if he can strike before his opponent has raised a whackload of spell defenses of his own.

Plus if you're choosing external spells instead, well, regeneration comes from nature, the only reinvigoration option comes from Earth....which may or may not be enough, depending on his encumberances after armor and quickness are factored in. Lifedrain can also be had through external spells, which, helpfully, addresses both of these problems at once, so invoking external spells is still not really the answer: Lifedrain can be had for one spell, getting regeneration and reinvigoration requires two. You're simply trading off your limited 5 spell slots instead of your item slots, and lifedrain still requires fewer.

Of course, a pure anti-SC may simply opt to do without: After all, he doesn't need to be able to take out enemy armies, he just needs to be able to take out enemy SCs. After that, his mission is accomplished.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Different aproaches, a superior build (because of its specialization) is as viable as a first strike build, they just work differently.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not necessarily, as you can get those spells from other mages. It is my experience that a SC (or even a group of SCs!), do not stand a chance vs a small army consisting of a duellist SC plus a few supporting mages.

We seem to agree on all the rest, so I am edditing it out.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or no items slots at all, as you can gain both externally from spells, while using your slots for duelling gear.

Quote:

In SC duelling, fights are typically short and brutal, so endurance in the form of perpetual reinvigoration is a nonissue. Of course, this just underscores the idea that tanks and tank-killers, are similar, yet have different requirements. A tank, being your typical SC, requires a weapon that is flexible and useful on the a variety of targets that it may encounter. A tank-killer, an anti-SC, only needs to be able to destroy tanks.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. Getting into the fight with no fatigue certainly helps (no penalties to att, deff & chance of armour piercing hit), but once you are hacking at each other it's mostly about att vs def, and damage yielded vs protection...and there are better weapons for that than the lifedraining ones, even at lower research levels. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are forgeting that lifedrain *cause* the fatique on the target, in addition to all other effects. That can be very significant, since for example 2 or 3 cheap banelords with wraithswords and jade armor can get fatique level on your SC thought the roof in just few turns, and than kill it. Happens all the time in MP. (and yes, I know that there are counters to it I am just giving an example)

[ July 16, 2004, 10:42: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am forgetting nothing.

A banelord with a wraithsword will deal 3 out of 4 times no fatigue damage to a 30 protection critter: 19+9=28+2d6 vs 30+2d6

Of course some hits might roll well and get through (assuming the banelord is not dead by then), but you are supposed to have planed for this & have your own reinvigoration countering it.

You can not claim 'multiple bane lords' as part of your argument, as those can easily be both grounded & delayed with a SoS, and bogged down with chaff.

edit: it's rather 7/10 than 3/4 if you want to nitpick, the core argument remains anyway.

[ July 16, 2004, 10:55: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

This is the classic "Will my Duel Wielding Duskdagger Jotun Jarl get killed before he kills the fully equipped Bane Lord"

The answer is the Jotun will win 90% of the time.

Why? Just because of the law of Armor Negating weapons and modestly higher strenght weilders. Duskdaggers work fine on Banelords for the same purpose since they will never fatigue out.

Lifedrain weapons are not a must, they are a generality that is good for most situations because of their benefits, but by and large you will need a swath of different weapon combinations to deal with a competant enemy, not the least of which is a different confirguration of weapons.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Would be much more helpful for the developers if someone gathered a list of all the requested changes then hold a poll where people can vote on what they want changed.
Then developers will know which changes are in high demand and which changes are in low demand. A poll would be a hundred times more efficient so the developers don't have to read hundreds of Posts.

Personally I would love to see the prize for the Arena Death Match improved... right now lots of people just ignore the event.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

A poll could be helpful but would have to be very carefully done. Many efforts along that line tended to be worded coser to "we the mob demand these fixes" rather than the "please and thank you consider this" that our momma taught us.

What would help, and has been done in the past but dropped by people doing it, is to collect all of the suggestions into a list. To keep the list clean and useable by the devs it should avoid too much discussion. The descripts of each item (suggestions, bugs, opinions, avoid categorizing them) could be just 6-10 words and a link to the thread where it was/is/can-be discussed. If such a list could be maintained and items added/deleted as patches come out, THAT would be a great contribution to the forum. And probably worth making sticky.

This is actually one of the most requested things by all of the developers in all of the game forums here. The discussions are great but hard to wade thru to see whether its a new topic they should add to their list. A directory of conversations would be very helpful.

[ July 16, 2004, 16:20: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, since Zen's taken charge of creating/maintaining locked sticky threads on this forum, shouldn't he be the one we ask to take on this highly useful yet tedious task?

EDIT: typo

[ July 16, 2004, 16:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I have two questions for the more experienced players:

1) Are games often won without the use of SC's?

2) Are games often won without the use of lifedrain in any form?

If the answers are: "No, not often. You typically need SC's and/or lifedrain in order to win competitive games." Then, it seems reasonable that lifedrain (in any form) should be either nerfed or made more expensive. Doesn't everyone agree with this, even the people who are against nerfing lifedrain?

If people answer "No" to those questions, and still are against nerfing lifedrain, I'd like to hear why. In my opinion, the less viable options there are in a game, the less strategy there is. So, nerfing lifedrain in Dom2 would make other options viable, and make the game even more deep than it already is.

Now, I'm not sure if lifedrain is tyically necessary to win, so I haven't made up my mind about nerfing it yet.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds nice but... the problem here is some people tend to write paragraphs and paragraphs about their suggestions then others who disagree will write paragraphs and/or off-topic discussions begin. The poll is much more efficient for gathering the information where the developers won't have to spend hours reading Posts.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

Most games will propably see the use of SCs. It is better to ask would the player have won the game without SC or lifedraining. Especially when lifedrain is also a spell (that can be casted from an item!) and in that case the melee-drainers would not see use. With that wording your question and interpretation (sp?) seems to be along the lines of this one, although not as strongly:

Are games won without use of elemental magics?
Are games won without Evocation spells?

If not, evocations, especially elemental ones, are obviously overpowered!

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think the answer is yes to both but then I dont particularly care. I think its only a question involving player-vs-player, on fairly small maps, and little or no diplomacy. None of which are a factor in 90% of my games.

But it doesn seem a reasonable thing to try and pin down. IF its common then it can stand some tweaking but I dont think it breaks the game. Remember that balance in Dom2 does not mean that everyone (unit, nation, god, player)can beat something, as long as SOMEONE (unit, nation, god, player) can.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds nice but... the problem here is some people tend to write paragraphs and paragraphs about their suggestions then others who disagree will write paragraphs and/or off-topic discussions begin. The poll is much more efficient for gathering the information where the developers won't have to spend hours reading Posts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But as we players do read the Posts the poll will most probably be colored by the views of the persons most actively speaking them aloud... I admit I have 'fallen' for that one a few times.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For best efficiency the developer should be the one to actually develop the poll. This way suggestions which are way too complex/bizarre can be filtered out and the developer has the list of what he considers important... then we can vote for what we feel should be addressed.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, they can be, in very small games where you often rush your opponents before the game reaches that phase of development. SCs are, however, an inherent core aspect of the game, as evidenced by the fact that many pretender choices are geared towards having a big, mean, asswhailer at your disposal from turn 1.

This question can be like asking, "Can wars be won without tanks?", though. Yes, they can be, but the alternatives tend to be bloody, gruelling, and tedious.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Once again, in very small games where people rush each other from the beginning, before SCs and item forging enters the picture, lifedrain does not necessarily manifest itself. Given that an overdependence on lifedrain can be countered by the use of lifeless units, many of which can be had very cheaply, and will eventually exhaust anything that isn't 0-encumberance if it depends entirely on lifedrain for fatigue control, it is also not as if Dom2 leaves you without a solution to an army of lifedraining attackers.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am trying to keep my lists as short as possible. I hoped people would also add on here in a similar way. The problem with stickies is that they can get outdated and overlong fast. Polls are often also skewed.

Well just trying to be helpful....

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

25. add mod command : patrol province for independents

this is really urgent for the faerun map to make it even better .

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">NO PLEASE NOT another MOD command.
Make it a MAP command, or a default. NOT a mod.
Id like to see alot more map commands.

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

23. Make the "neighbors" filter give more visible arrows (red? dark yellow? black with a red center?) or a choice between arrow colors in the "preference" screen -- I can't see them at all often
24. Ryleh's colors somewhat different in the f2 graph screen or a choice between arrow colors in the "preference" screen

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

I can't believe I forgot this the first time.
This would be around priority 8-15 for me, it's a flavor element, so I'll call it

12a. Flavor feature: Experience has out-of-combat-effects as well: per experience star,
- stealthy commanders receive +3 points stealth
- priests receive +3% chance of successfully raising the dom by 1 when preaching
- bloodhunters receive +3% chance of successfully capturing blood slaves and a +3% chance of gaining an additional +1 bloodslave per successful hunt
(more ideas welcome)

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">NO PLEASE NOT another MOD command.
Make it a MAP command, or a default. NOT a mod.
Id like to see alot more map commands. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">oops i meant map command not mod command http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
but it should have been obvious from the context anyway that this can only be a typo from me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A prioritized and hopefully realistic Wish List for 2.13
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Extra stealth for experience, sure, since for many of them, the stealth is the only thing that matters. Actually, this might be best only for scouts, spies, and assasins (and variants - bards, concubines, etc), because the Vanadrotts and Tuatha already get a lot out of experience.

For priests ... maybe.

But for bloodhunters?? Unlike stealth, there's already a plethora of ways to improve blood hunting ability. Empowerment, skill-raising items, bloodthorns. Improving the blood hunters with experience would only serve to give blood nations even more advantages, as they start creating cheap(ish) blood hunters early, which then improve. Add this to the fact that blood already is at a big advantage in games with few magic sites, and ....

Actually, it'd be nice if it was harder to blood hunt when magic sites are more rare.

Theory being that if the other sources of magic are so scarce, more and more mages look to blood for power; people start protecting and hiding their virgins more, or even deflowering them for their own good.