Death Knight Army
 

I'm in the late stages of a Mictlan game and fell in love with Death Knights which I'm having my Father Illearth summon. I'm trying to figure out ways to get a bunch of casters summoning those guys and am having a rough time.

There aren't a lot of 2E 2B mages out there. Obviously a pretender can do it and the Father Illearth (which is unique).

Every nation can summon fallen angles and earth empower them and then give them some earth boots (can do this with any blood mage of any nation as well).

Or go the other route which probably makes more sense and get an earth mage and blood empower them and then give them a robe of thorns or something.

Machkaka's Black Sorceress has 2E and a ? so get a B there an you are home free. But having no good flow of blood mages rounding up a healthy supply of slaves might be a problem.

Ulm has both the E and the B but in different places. Round up some blood to empower the smiths and off you go.

So that's what I've come up with. Any other ideas?

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One eighth of Vanheim's dwarves come with blood 1 as well. Unfortunately, there is a bit of a lack lack of both a blood/earth nation and an astral/earth nation amongst the various themes.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

pangenea's pans have NNNEE*
the pandemoniancs have NNNBB .
so you have already bloodhunters . although they are expensive . and if you are really lucky ( 1/8 possibility ) your pan gets blood as random pick . the 1 missing blood to summon 1 death knight / summon can be easy aquired via e.g. blood thorn .
in latergame the 5 blood 2 earth for infernal crusade shouldn't be too hard to get then too .
1 brazen vessel , 1 blood thorn , 1 blood empowerment , 1 armor of souls , 1 lucky random blood pick for the pan = 5 blood 2 earth .


but since pangenea is no as good blood hunter as mictlan or abysia i think it would be better to take it on your pretender and summon the father illearth with him .
then these 2 can cast in late game infernal crusade all the time .

Re: Death Knight Army
 

Abysya could get a random pick Warlock, having him an earth boots or a blood stone and summon Demon Knights.

But is usually easier to get them with Infernal Crusade (even if Blood 9 ...) but in long standing games.

However I prefer far more Devils or Stormies ... more versatile and mobile (and Stormies aren't stormable, and with a staff of storms in they become fearful fighters for nn equipped armies).

Re: Death Knight Army
 

belphegor the demon lord has 4F 4B and 4E so he is a lategame uniquecaster for demon knights too .
finally 1/64 of your summoned spectres which have 2 random picks will get one blood and one earth pick . but there the odds are just too bad .

does anyone know if there are perhaps rare indep mages which fit for this role ?

a very very lategame suggestion : wish for several belphegors and GoR them . they should all have the basic magic skills of the original belphegor than too .

Re: Death Knight Army
 

I think the combination of an easy Earth/Blood nation was left out on purpose, because such a combination is extremely powerful en masse. Just rush construction, build some dwarven hammers, mass produce earthstones for cheap, cast forge of ancients, mass produce soul contracts for really cheap, reap the massive benefits...

Pangea is probably your best bet for getting this started early since they have built in bloodhunters, and Pans have a chance of getting both earth and blood.

[ July 16, 2004, 23:59: Message edited by: Cheezeninja ]

Re: Death Knight Army
 

perhaps this would be a good idea for a future theme .
EEBB mages .

cause for every other similiar blood summon there are in most cases 2 nations there :

devils : abysia / marignon DF / mictlan
frost fiends : mictlan / jotunheim
cross breeding : pangenea / mictlan

storm demon is though a similiar candidate :
vanheim (standard) can get the 2nd needed blood pick only with 1/8 th possibility on their very expensive vanadrotts.

or they need to empower their vanjarls +1 blood .

but they can't natural cast it .
with pangenea it is similiar for demon knights but there the odds are much worse than for vanheim .

perhaps the designers thought that storm demons and death knights are the "best" demon troops and better than the above listed devils and so on .

vanheim + pangenea have further in common that it is much harder for them to get a blood economy going .
pangeneas pandemoniacs are just very expensive .
vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

but vanheim has already plenty of other strenghts like powerful air magic , possible bless strategies ...

a 4th pangenea theme where the pans are replaced through blood 2 earth 2 pans would perhaps be nice to fill the niche http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

edit : didn't see your posting already when writing this Cheezeninja

sounds very rational why there should be no EEBB nation / theme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 17, 2004, 00:17: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">that's a good thought .
it is a bit better for a blood 1 mage though or ?
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or ?
so it will be something like 10-12 turns but i never thought it that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

with abysia and the like i of course only forge a SDR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 17, 2004, 00:45: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The chance is 10% + 40%*Blood. A blood 2 mage has a 90% chance, as does a blood 1 mage with a SDR.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

Well I believe Pan should't get Demon Knights ... I don't feel Pan using demons, but more xbreeding as before stated.

About using blood enhancing items for blood hunting, well I use them only when they're useless elsewhere.
I prefer +1 blood slave than +1 research point.
But usually they're assigned to forging or casting.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The chance is 10% + 40%*Blood. A blood 2 mage has a 90% chance, as does a blood 1 mage with a SDR. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ah thnx . btw the storm demon isn't such a great idea for vanheim at all or ? because he just adds to their strenghts ( already superpowerful airmages ) but does not cover their weaknesses .
against lighningresistant creatures / sc's storm demons are pretty useless or ?

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You have a good chance with indie Wizards. The sorcery based ones can get 2B1E and the elemantal ones 2E1B, easy to go from there with boosters.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Storm Demons work well for Vanheim because they are immune to lightning and can fly in storms, which means that Vanheim can nuke the crap out of its enemies without worrying about also nuking the storm demons.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is 1/32. Both earth+blood and blood+earth will do.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">if you are 100% lighning resistant too can a storm demon than hurt you or not ? i didn't use storm demons much so far since i don't like vanheim too much all in all and for other nations it is not easy to get .
his weapons are thunder fist / lightning according to the excel graph from zen .
so does he inflict damage in meelee with his thunder fist if you are 100% lighning immune or can it harm you no more then ?
how is this with similiar units like spring hawks ?

thnx in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Graeme, Golden Arge Arcoscephale has an absolutely amazing flying trampling pretender in the Shedu and are an astral/earth nation.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you have a point to make, or are you just trying to blind us with your avatar?

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm happy the avatar annoys you. It wasn't my intent, but merely a pleasant side effect. I merely found it surprising that you didn't find Golden Era Arco to be a strong enough astral/earth nation, given your vigorous support of the theme in the past.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

The good thing is that you can block images by server. So you don't have to deal with the innane, "annoying as I can be" avatars.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

Sigh. No respect for LZ around here.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

I'm honestly not sure what that thing is, given that it blinks so much, and my years of experience Online have caused me to develop an auto-tune-out reflex to anything that blinks like that, since those tend to be rather obnoxious ads.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

I'm sorry, Blitz, but your avatar is a bit distracting - it looks like 'Zorro' from afar, and even close up. Your rights are your rights, and yes we can turn off the image, but I hope you take this feedback in the right spirit - so you can know what you are communicating to some of us, if unintended. Nagot Gick Fel has a less distracting frame-rate in his... *grin*

Thanks.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

In attempt to save Norfleet from blindness I've changed my avatar. I sincerely hope Graeme still finds it irritating, but I am not optimistic.

Re: Death Knight Army
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You know, if you really want to bug Graeme, you can set it so that your server shows a different one to Graeme when he views your avatar, but shows something else to everyone else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif