2 small questions about horror mark
 

if a unit is horror marked does anyone know the percentages of a horror attack . further how are the odds that you are attacked by a lesser horror , a horror , the king of world horror , a doom horror .
do horror marks stack :
if you put e.g. 2 soul contracts on your leader does he have double chance for a horror attack ?

are 5 devils on guard enough to defeat a lesser horror attack ?

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

yeah I have wondered the same thing, I have used the contracts and had a horror marked commander present in a game that has gone on into a hundred turns and I have yet across any of my games to see an unprovoked horror attack.

But I always want to make use of the incombat horror spells but am never quite sure just how compelling a horror mark would actually be ?

Spiro

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

thnx for the answers sheap .
does someone know hard numbers ?
or if you can get attacked even by a king of the world / doom horror if you are "only" horrormarked and do nothing but sit around to produce devils ? of course if astral corruption is not in effect .
edit : oh yes and do the percentages from 2 soul contracts stack ?
perhaps the model is percentagewise and with 1 soulcontract you can only get rarely attacked by a lesser horror while with 2 soul contracts the percentages stack and you now can get attacked by a lesser horror with a higher chance + get rarely attacked instead of a lesser horror even by a horror ?

btw is there any very fast and easy way where you need no programming knowledge but simple a small program with which you can find such hardcoded things even as a novice like me in short time ?

[ July 27, 2004, 14:28: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

The one time I was attacked by a horror, it was on a soul contracted mage casting some ritual spell.

The horror that showed up wasn't a small one (I'm not sure if it was a Doom Horror, though: I'm thinking it was a regular Horror), but I felt confident because the target mage had a bodyguard of 5 Iron Dragons, one of my favorite units.

Combat begins, the dragons fly over and all attack the horror. The horror lives, and immediately flies past the dragons and attacks my mage, killing him instantly. End of battle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

IIRC, Iron Dragons have a decent bite attack, but I might have done better with bodyguards specialized in doing regular attacks rather than trampling. But I think the horror mark makes the horrors prioritize the marked being, even when already surrounded by enemies. So unless your bodyguards are going to kill the horror immediately the first round before it can move, I suspect you're a goner unless the target victim is tough enough to hold up for a few rounds against the horror.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nah. Target victim should summon something first round, and you should give him gems if needed, unless he can kill horror in first round with spell. Also tramplening is indeed one of the worst possible attacks against horrors, since they got to make two checks - 75% of faliure because of they are etherial, AND good chance of failure becuse of horror's high defense (all tramlening attack made as attck 10 vs unit's defense). I would suggest next time to try something with magical attack as a bodyguard, so it could hurt etherial units.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In addition to this, I would also suggest horror-marked bodyguards, so that the horrors do not ignore them.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In addition to this, I would also suggest horror-marked bodyguards, so that the horrors do not ignore them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">that's a hard to achieve goal or http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

At least mages carrying the Forbidden Light unique artifact can expect to get attacked by horrors within the next five to ten turns after equipping the artifact. That's the way it worked in Dom-PPP anyway the times I saw Forbidden Light being used, but its description says it attracts horrors so the chances of attack are probably drastically increased.

Edi

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah zens miqr says that too . another that example is the gift of kugri . so these 2 items need probably very good protection of the wearer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i really would like to know the odds for a simple soul contract http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . in order to evaluate if the odds are poor enough like 1% to not be worth trying to protect the wearer's because if the soul contract is in use for average 50+ turns it really pays of well enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
if the odds would be instead 5-10% i would perhaps take different measures .
unfortunately abysia has no cheap scouts or leaders so i think "cheapest" solution is to hoard them on researching sages .
but if the odds would be 5-10% that would be perhaps to careless .
so does anyone know the odds or should i ask the developers cause i really want to know that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The most cost-effective place to put soul contracts is on a scout. The chance of a horror attack is low enough that you only really have to worry about it over a period of dozens of turns.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

Being horror marked mostly just encourages horrors in combat to attack you, it doesn't draw that many horrors by itself although it can happen. If you're doing something that encourages horror attacks, like casting spells in Astral Corruption or living under a Dome of Corruption, a horror marked unit is more likely to be on the receiving end of the spell, and is more likely to get a meaner horror.

I'm not sure if being in magic dominion increases the odds of horror attacks or not. They're so rare it's hard to prove it.

Some horror marks are "worse" than others although it doesn't show it. The one you get from the spell is relatively mild.

Lesser Horrors are extremely feeble and can easily be defeated, but if the horror marked unit is extremely weak they might be able to kill him before they are themselves destroyed. "Normal" horrors are strong enough to wipe out most mages or national commanders and Groups of bodyguards unless they are SC's. Doom Horrors and Kings of the World rarely appear unless wished for, but there's not much hope of defeating them.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">my favourite so far abysia does unfortunately have no scouts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif so there i think sages are a good solution if you find them .
do you know graeme if the chance doubles with 2 soul contracts on the same scout ?

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hire indy scouts. They are likely available in most of your captured provinces.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hire indy scouts. They are likely available in most of your captured provinces. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">thnx
i really didn't think on that .

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem. Glad to help. BTW, at 20gp each, indy scouts are dirt-cheap.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem. Glad to help. BTW, at 20gp each, indy scouts are dirt-cheap. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah just like the "national ones" most nations have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
but expect indep mages i haven't recruited any indep troops so far lol . just found them bad return for my money ^^.
but for such cases like indep scouts as stocks they are great .
thnx again for opening up my mind there .
i wouldn't have come to that idea myself .
i really kinda didn't see the wood for the trees here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

thought on summoning black servants for that while the scouts are the much cheaper + simpler solution .
i castle everything anyway quite soon as abysia so i could recruit even 10 scouts / turn in midgame if i would want to ^^.

[ July 28, 2004, 02:20: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You do NOT need a castle to recruit indy scouts.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You do NOT need a castle to recruit indy scouts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">hehe yeah right .
but to protect them i need one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

i really lack expierience with indep troops / cheap leaders .
i never used any of them expect mages and really rarely priests .

just curious now :
can you tell me a nation for which indep troops are good ? i always play with watchtower as castle and those races with which a watchtower seems like a bad choice ( e.g. standard ulm ) i somehow don't like and almost not play .
but expect perhaps some ultra rare sites like the ones where you can recruit trolls the indep troops seem to me just extremely inferior to almost all national troops . same with non-mage leaders ( expect now the scout too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

always like the choice between a leopard 2 and a t 54 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ July 28, 2004, 02:47: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can just move them to a castled province.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can just move them to a castled province. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah but i love to castle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . although i am still a newbie i think i will never change my mind and always stay a fan of castling in dom 2 unless they change something severely in a new patch which i don't hope that it happens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

unless it is like reducing build time for watchtower to 1 turn or adding castle walls to the watchtower http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh, no.

PvK

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

Castles do not protect against horror attacks, which work as assassinations. Also, while it's nice to have castles to protect your guys, scouts are the unit that don't need it, since it is impossible to harm them while they are hiding anyway.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indie longbows and hoburg crossbows are good for many nations. Amazon sacreds can be nice with a good bless (and a some of them can fly). Plain garnet amazons have fire resistance, so can be occasionally be useful. Raptors can be good mobile fodder. Ichtyids can get you a foothold under water, and tritons can help you keep it(amber tritons have good mages and better troops than normal tritons).Mictlan can make use of almost any indies.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah true http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yep the ichtyids are nice for that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
but only early game and if there is a water nation i think ichtyids + tritons aren't enough to hold your underwater province .

yeah forgot the hoburg x-bows they are really nice and not too uncommon . they are really good for massproduction and almost as good as other x-bows while you have about 1,5x as many of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

Don't forget that Ichtyids have morale of 12... Mrl 12 prot 12 go a long way in certain armies, and even as Ulm I found them rather nice improvement in morale. That net could come in handy as well... Imobilizing knight lets your heavy hitters hit him when that def. is reduced to 3 (or whatever).

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The most cost-effective place to put soul contracts is on a scout. The chance of a horror attack is low enough that you only really have to worry about it over a period of dozens of turns. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In some test games ive been running i lost 2 spies w/ 2 contracts each to horror attacks in about ten turns. And in fact one of them had somehow surivived a previous attack "somehow", since trying to view the battle caused a lovely crash. Neither drain or magic dominion.

I usually try to stick one of the 5 gem armors on a spy/scout to keep them alive just a round or two more.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The most cost-effective place to put soul contracts is on a scout. The chance of a horror attack is low enough that you only really have to worry about it over a period of dozens of turns. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In some test games ive been running i lost 2 spies w/ 2 contracts each to horror attacks in about ten turns. And in fact one of them had somehow surivived a previous attack "somehow", since trying to view the battle caused a lovely crash. Neither drain or magic dominion.

I usually try to stick one of the 5 gem armors on a spy/scout to keep them alive just a round or two more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">thnx that's valuable info .
so they seem to stack and since a spy only costs 1,33 upkeep it seems that the easiest way is just 1 soul contract per scout http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
then they will stay long enough on them to pay off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

Boron,
Still using scouts with only 1 contract? For Abysia, I use indep. scouts all over the place to ferry slaves at most 2 turns movement to lab. But for the contracts I'm thinking about using indep commanders so that my building armies can guard commander. If my army fights or moves, commander is on his own for a couple turns. 30vs20 gold seems to be a safer protection for your contracts in my opinion. But are normal abysian troops going to do much? What about devils? I havent tried contracts yet in long games on anything but scouts.

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

To the furthest of my rather meager knowledge, a horror on a battlefield will ONLY attack horror marked units until:
A) All horror marked units are dead, or inaccessible(No empty spot to fly into beside them)
B) A horror has made its move, killed a horror marked unit, and been left with one or more unused attacks and no marked units within range.

I'm even less sure of B than I am of the whole hypothesis. It SEEMS to hold true, but I've only seen horrors attack armies after summoning those horrors myself, usually after sending a few vampires into hand to hand with Shields of the Accursed the month before. Consequently, with such a ganerous marked-&gt;unmarked unit ratio, making any sort of conclusive observation was... tricky.

Update: A few questions of my own, by the way.
1) We know that casting spells and forging items is more likely to attract horrors than just kinda lounging around, even in high-magic provinces. The question is, how much more likely? Do multi-path spells or items check for horror attacks twice, as with Astral Corruption? Are more powerful spells more likely to attract horrors, or to attract bigger horrors?
2) More powerful mages seem to attract more powerful horrors. Are horrors keyed to mages' path levels, or does it simply seem this way because powerful mages cast powerful globals(And the gem cost of the spell results in bigger horrors) or end up getting more powerful horror marks?
For instance, if the Forbidden Light, which presumably incurs one of the most powerful marks in the game, were given to a scout, would that scout attract doom horrors, or would he just be very, very likely to attract the usual lesser horrors?
3) I don't suppose anyone knows the relative strengths of various horror marks? Is the Oath Rod of Kurgi's horror mark powerful enough to actually be useful without Send Horror or Call Horror? Do higher-penetration castings of Horror Mark result in stronger marks?

Re: 2 small questions about horror mark
 

to be honest i don't use soul contracts anymore . i prefer now vampires and with blood 9 then the infernal forces summon spell which gives you 7+ devils + 20 imps .
but i try to make my core blood army consisting of vampires because they are immortal.

a devil is tougher than a vampire yeah but both can't fly during a storm and the vampires are at least immortal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif