Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

well if it feels like a question that was thoroughly answered already we might just use the search button and post a link to the previous conversation. But thats OK. It will still make a nice one-stop shopping thread for newbie questions. If its better than others that have been done then Im sure it will get posted and linked. There is always room for a good editor (as oppossed to a good writer) to make a better FAQ file.

[ July 29, 2004, 13:51: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

i want to focus on some things which are still undocumented .
unfortunately sunrays really excellent site is down and i have only downloaded so far the downloadable things and not copied the .html guides so far so perhaps much is already answered there .

i will try to give a brief and good understandable overview with some examples ( like in the dominion guide how dominion works ) about combat .
e.g. the fire spells do 14 + 2 per level above damage .
area of 1 = ....
than ´what i miss so far :
a formula how many maenads you get depending on the turmoil scale ...
stealth detection
pan cw reanimation / freespawn rates and so on

about half of the questions are now almost answered because i posted them in previous threads and got good answers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i will try to include a small sc / anti sc guide too that ppl get an impression whats important http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
it took me e.g. almost 2 months until finding out how cool a sc pretender really is .
first weeks in sp i used rainbow pretenders .
tried once a combat pretender but had not much knowledge of combat spells .
i once used a vq then because i read at the forum how good she is but i only gave her some more death + blood lol and was unimpressed ^^.

because sp is so different from mp and a mp game takes about at least 2 months if nobody tells you in your first mp game you will most likely take a totally crap pretender than after 2 months be wiped out .
then you try your first sc pretender but because sp is not so good for testing it ( only for indy conquering ) your first build is still not so good and so i think most likely you find your first good sc pretender only in your 3rd mp game after 6 month .

so i will try to declare why some key concepts are so important .
like in the beginning i thought : woah ulm has 20 / 23 protection units they rock .
then i built them and they sucked against in my newbish eyes much weaker units .
now i understand because of their inferior attack/def Ratings + high encumberance .

and so on hehe .

hopefully i cover much .
i will include the formulas for blood hunt etc too in a legend .

so i want to make a faq , some charts / legends for formulas and so on
and a small guide on some topics

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

Hi Boron,

that's a really good Idea ... and very close to what I was aiming to creating my Manual Addenda (just covering all the things are not well covered in the rules) .. I think it could be good/usefull for you to start a new project but I think it could be better to join our projects making a really good newbie guide.

I suggest you to read the Manual Addenda (it has most of the answer from this forum) and then look if something usefull for you could be there.

I have kept out details on the single spells (since Zen is writing a reference about that) and most of the things concerning strategies (SC and so on).

I think to have included all the formulas I was able to find on the net.

I have kept the oringal post in the guide, but it could eb nice to use the informations in the Posts to write more readable chapter.

I have also not included the Ceremony guide on dominions on my Manula Addenda becouse I think it is a little jewel and there is no need to integrate.

Anywya, let me know any kind of help/collaboration you need!

good luck
Liga

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

thnx liga http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

your manual addendum is great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
so are zens miqr and scqr .

i have heard of zens plans . but he announced them already 2 months ago when i got dominions and joined the forum .
i have seen very little postings from zen on the board since about 1 month .
sure his guides will be great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
perhaps you can share insight and say me when zen thinks he publishes his new spell guide and other things he plans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

if this is in the next 2 weeks than my plan is most likely obsolete . but i guess it takes far longer so my idea was to provide a quick interim solution for the e.g. next 2 months until zens new puplications show up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

furthermore if you have a beta and want feedback i would read it and then ask you questions .
i am at the moment still kind of newbie but on the advance to better understanding and hopefully an in future quite competetive player on the mosehansen games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
so i could ihmo well evaluate if it is suited for newbies and with my starting insight ask advanced questions too .

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He told on the forum that was close to be finished ... waiting just a sort of "suprvisor" approval ... anyway I think you have really a lot of things to work on not yet covered by any docs on the net (stealth, sc guide, ...).
Let me know how I could help you in realizing this guide ...

bye bye
Liga

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He told on the forum that was close to be finished ... waiting just a sort of "suprvisor" approval ... anyway I think you have really a lot of things to work on not yet covered by any docs on the net (stealth, sc guide, ...).
Let me know how I could help you in realizing this guide ...

bye bye
Liga </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">tell me which kind of guide i should try to provide . than i will try to write one and you could read it and give me your opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

two small questions to your manual addendum :

number one :
7.2. expierience :

All units, except mindless ones, get:

1 exp per turn
+1 exp for participating in a battle
+3 exp for winning a battle
+1 exp for hitting enemy

is that really for hitting ? i miss xp for killing something if that is true .

number two :

according to the expierience chart you get -1 encumberance as a bonus for reaching xp lvl 4 .

a moloch e.g. has base encumberance 1 .
does that mean that he gets + 1 reinvigoration or does base encumberance drop to 0 and he can't fatigue in melee like vq / pod etc. ?

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. A unit can get quite a lot of experience in just one battle, if it does a lot of fighting (scoring hits).

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

chapter 8.4.4. blood hunt :

you should add that SDR counts +1 blood level for blood hunting purposes since 2.12 .

You can't blood hunt in sea provinces, I think.

afaik it is now a fact that you can't blood hunt in sea provinces . so the i think is no longer needed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. A unit can get quite a lot of experience in just one battle, if it does a lot of fighting (scoring hits). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">strange .
in every rpg i know you only get xp for KILLING units not hitting them .
just look at diablo 2 e.g.
if you hit baal 1 million times with fists for fun but don't kill him you still get no exp.

so really amazed that dominions should be the only fantasy game so far where this is not the case .
afaik no other fantasy game rewards you for just hitting someone and not killing him.
seems like a logical bug http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
did the developers say that or is there perhaps any kind of misunderstanding fault in it ?

really amazed if this is really true

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

Speaking of...

I've actually been writing a .. not a newbie-guide per se. Cause there are a couple of good tutorials that explain game basics. But what I consider a mid-level strategy guide. It covers some of the nuances of the game which are not apparent to a newer player. Take a look at tell me what you think:

http://benatar.snurgle.org:8080/~quinn/guide.html

Obviously still a work in progress. Comments are welcome and appreciated!

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

starting to read now .

finished chapter 1 lol

i like that chart
Early Game Mid Game Late Game
Blitz Strong Medium Weak
Balance Medium Medium Medium
Turtle Weak Medium Strong

you could add a description with map sizes and state that blitz strats are good to use at small ( - 100 provinces ) maps , while turtle strat is especially a good idea for faerun .
further you could include the hint if you chose to blitz attack you have to have in mind that if your enemy plays turtle but right guesses movement of your main army if you aren't ´prepared for that you are screwed too .
especially a vq is hard to come by for most nations in the first 20 turns .

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

Yeah, great point boron. Also after reading this thread I'll need to add in a section on unit experience, leveling, and heroic abilities.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">therefore you could just say : read ligas manual addendum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
or make a new guide .

otherwise it will get too long .
i think you should make for each major chapter a new site / guide

5 guides 4 pages each are much easier to read than 1 guide 20 pages .
it is a phsychological trick but true . at least for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

so far nice work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
when i finished reading it i will let you know my opinion if i think you could somewhere be more specific http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Get over it. You have to learn to accept that Dom 2 is not Diablo or any/all other games.

Frankly, the idea that you only get experience for killing is stupid, and it leads to game play abuses. First, in the real world, you learn by doing. If you were practicing martial arts, or marksmanship, or whatever, you do really learn by trying to hit an opponent. If you only learned by defeating them, no one would ever learn anything, because beginners could never defeat experts. As for the gameplay abuses, it's not fair that one character gets all the XPs because they were lucky enough (or in MP, aggressive/sneaky enough) to land the Last blow, regardless of whether someone else did 99% of the work to kill the target. Which was one of the things I liked about the SWG MMORPG: you got XPs proportionally based on your share of the damage that was inflicted when you gang-banged an enemy.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which is the single largest problem with Fantasy based strategy games like AOW. There you have to do silly things like save weakened units for your heroes to kill so that you get the most benefit out of the fight.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which is the single largest problem with Fantasy based strategy games like AOW. There you have to do silly things like save weakened units for your heroes to kill so that you get the most benefit out of the fight. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i would this call rather a feature than a silly thing .
you have to chose whether to risk your hero or not . i liked that in aow and especially in aow 2 shadow magic .
in aow + aow 2 until a patch heros were too strong but in aow 2 shadow magic balance is a bit better .

but aow 2 shadow magic is not good anymore since i know dominions 2 .
only 2 uses for aow 2 shadow magic that come to my mind after knowing dominions 2 :

you can play it if you are really sick ( like flu ) and dominion 2 is too exhausting but want to have at least the feel to play something similiar to dominions .
you can let you small children play aow 2 as a preparation and practice for dominions 2 .
like duplo then lego http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Get over it. You have to learn to accept that Dom 2 is not Diablo or any/all other games.

Frankly, the idea that you only get experience for killing is stupid, and it leads to game play abuses. First, in the real world, you learn by doing. If you were practicing martial arts, or marksmanship, or whatever, you do really learn by trying to hit an opponent. If you only learned by defeating them, no one would ever learn anything, because beginners could never defeat experts. As for the gameplay abuses, it's not fair that one character gets all the XPs because they were lucky enough (or in MP, aggressive/sneaky enough) to land the Last blow, regardless of whether someone else did 99% of the work to kill the target. Which was one of the things I liked about the SWG MMORPG: you got XPs proportionally based on your share of the damage that was inflicted when you gang-banged an enemy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well in diablo 2 party play expierience in party was shared too if the members were in the same area ( something like 1 screen ) .
but the one who killed the target got 10% bonus .

and getting xp only for killing would delay getting xp that would be good .
you get xp far to quick .
if i really get for every hit one xp than after smashing 2-3 indie provinces my sc pretender has already 5 stars .
have never paid much attention to that but at least my vq's were always quite quick 5 star .

if the sc only gets xp for kills he would much slower reach the 5ths level .

the downside of that would be of course that for non sc's it would be almost impossible to reach a higher level than lvl 2-3 .

but it would make sense logical . a sc is always a very mighty being either a pretender or a mighty demon etc. so they do get more expierience because of their already higher power and semi divinity compared to mortals like knights .
makes sense from fantasy view points or ?

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

[quote]Originally posted by Boron:

Quote:

strange . in every rpg i know you only get xp for KILLING units not hitting them . just look at diablo 2 e.g. if you hit baal 1 million times with fists for fun but don't kill him you still get no exp.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First - Dom2 isn't an RPG. Second, in Diablo 2 (which also isn't an RPG), you bloody well do get experience without killing anything. Join a party and leech mega experience without ever swinging a weapon.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most certainly Dom2 is _NOT_ the only fantasy game to do so. The Disciples line of fantasy turn based strategy games (ie, the exact same genre as Dom2) units got experience for hitting opponents, meaning that you had to work to ensure that units actually got to do some damage.

A console RPG that did the same - Final Fantasy VIII or IX or X or some such - it was a _huge_ PITA because if you want your people to level up, you had to swap each of them in long enough to take an action.

Paper and Pencil RPGs such as Runequest, AD&D and the like certainly never insisted that a character make a kill to get experience, or 1st level mages would never reach lvl 2; similarly, support characters such as clerics would rarely.

I'd suggest that your exposure to RPGs, and to computer games, is somewhat more limitted than you might like to believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Arcanum? The amount of xp for kill was so minor compared to the one you got for bashing the critter up you could leave them lie unconscious if you were the kind type (and without followers, as they butchered without mercy).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I really liked RoleMaster series (and MERP) in the sense you could actually level up from all the xp you gained for getting hit yourself. All those imaginative criticals yielded tons of xp when felt in first person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You aren't choosing whether to risk your hero. You are using extremely gamey tactics to make sure that your most valuable units always act Last, and are the only ones to kill any other units so as to maximize your experience. If experience was granted for damage dealt, then you would at least have to fight lots to gain levels. If it was granted for some kind of spellcasting, then your casting heroes would be more useful as well.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You aren't choosing whether to risk your hero. You are using extremely gamey tactics to make sure that your most valuable units always act Last, and are the only ones to kill any other units so as to maximize your experience. If experience was granted for damage dealt, then you would at least have to fight lots to gain levels. If it was granted for some kind of spellcasting, then your casting heroes would be more useful as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">you could get spell casting 1-5 in age of wonders 2 as levelup reward .

age of wonders 2 had tactical combat where you had full battle control .
in dom 2 you can only give very limited battle orders .

so the ability to exploit that is quite limited .
and it would reward those killing something more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
i assume hitting something by damage shields counts as hitting too or ?
don't you agree that pretender sc's which conquer indies get maximum xp level too fast ?

so with xp for killing only your weak and almost worthless troops like militia would get almost no expierience while knights and other good troops would get some http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
furthermore a sc wouldn't get max xp as quick as he does now .

you have to see expierience more abstract : authority/respect also matters .

if you look at any "barbarian" tribes in real history like the germans at the time of the roman empire there battle prowess and valor were very important .
only the most fierce and strong and successful warriors ( those who killed most enemies ) had a chance to become leaders , later kings .
there are many examples in history of warrior kings which rose from common , but brave soldiers to generals and finally kings .
even in rome there was the time of soldier kings .

so how else should you prove your valor and bravery in battle than by killing as much enemies as possible ?
war is not about hitting as many enemies as possible but killing as many as possible .
one hit , no kill is always a bad option .
was even in ancient times suboptimal .

a shortbow archer can hit a heavy armored soldier 10 times but he doesn't even scratch him . then the armored soldier is in range and kills the archer .

so i still can't see why getting xp only for killing doesn't make sense in pc games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Arcanum? The amount of xp for kill was so minor compared to the one you got for bashing the critter up you could leave them lie unconscious if you were the kind type (and without followers, as they butchered without mercy).

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">oh yeah i played arcanum too . i have to admit that i enjoyed it very much .
i exploited that by using a low damage gun . this way i got more xp .

since dominion is the game i ever wanted i am forgetting almost all my gaming expierience from former games lol although it is only about 1 year ago when i played arcanum .

but still xp for killing is better than for hitting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

@ cainehill : yeah that party joining and leeching was great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

just rush to hell difficulty in 1 hour , join cowruns , leech and have a lvl 80 char in 2 days or even faster if you would have played nonstop .
loved that times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

edit : me and a friend even offered that service for sojs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
we got 1 soj for shuffling to hell ( complete ) and about 4-5 for even leveling up to lvl 80 .

was quite profitable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

ah well diablo was great you could betray the new and unexpierienced . and they even thanked you . so great and funny http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ July 29, 2004, 22:48: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is no perfect XP system: Your great SWG system, for instance, neglects the value of support characters. If you only get XP for something based on the amount of damage you actually inflict to a target, then characters which are "support", and perform actions such as healing, buffing, and other tasks which allowed the party to inflict such damage, but did not actually cause damage directly, are without value to the XP system.

A system which rewards only for killing, on the other hand, results in the "vulching" issue where weakened units are saved for the person who is to finish them off, or, in a MMORPG, people "steal kills".

A system which rewards you for merely performing an action, on the other hand, results in players that perform purposeless actions for the sole purpose of acquiring XPs. An adaptation of this in which only acts performed upon appropriate targets qualifies results in "punching bag" behavior, in which the player intentionally preserves an otherwise crippled opponent, who has been intentionally hobbled due to a pile of negative status effects or is trapped upon an terrain obstacle, so that he can beat on this opponent repeatedly.

A system which rewards you for simply being in a group and/or being in proximity of those who commit an act which gains such an award, on the other hand, results in leeching: People that join and follow others around, and do not actually make any kind of contribution, for the express purpose of acquiring this experience.

All known XP systems have some sort of abusive pattern built into them: Either some form of artificial behavior becomes the easiest path to gaining XP, or some actions become artificially unrewarding or even counterproductive.

In theory, the only way you'd come up with a "fair" XP system is to include all of these methods simultaneously: At least then, there's no single pattern of abuse that can be followed, as you can abuse the system in a variety of ways. Until somebody comes up with a better solution than manually awarding the XPs, however, XP systems will always be abused.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're missing the point. Your spellcasters had to go into physical combat to gain levels. They were not granted experience for any spell that they cast that did not actually kill the enemy.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which doesn't make the problem of giving experience only on kills any easier to deal with.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It doesn't.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I don't agree, since I'm pretty sure that the _only_ five star unit I've ever seen is Orion.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What would be the point of this? Your expensive troops should not be any better at learning to be effective warriors than your cheaper troops.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">SCs don't get maximum experience unless they Last for a very, very long time.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which is what the leadership rating represents, not the amount of experience that the unit has. Experience is combat ability, you gain it by the means already described. It would be pointless to change it, since the system is working as designed.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And this doesn't matter at all for combat ability.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Experience doesn't represent leadership ability.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A unit's experience also doesn't represent valour and bravery. Bravery is represented by morale. Experience represents the amount of combat that the unit has been involved in.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your ability in combat is certainly about hitting as many enemies as possible. As you hit more enemies, ie, as you are involved in more combats, you will become better at it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So what? That archer managed to hit _10 times_. That's quite an accomplishment, and he would certainly become a better archer after that.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You've used a double negative in this sentence, so it's kind of hard to figure out what you mean.

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I don't agree, since I'm pretty sure that the _only_ five star unit I've ever seen is Orion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well your vq is level 5 really fast too in general

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Experience doesn't represent leadership ability.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no but it was a requirement . it still is .
there is a figure of speech in german : von der pike auf dienen . unfortunately i don't know what the correct american figure of speech for that is .
so if anyone can translate that plz do it .
i try to describe what i mean :
you start your career as soldier as a basic soldier . once you haven proven worthy you get a low leader .
even without military skill you can get a midlevel leader through valor .
the main assessment factor for that are the kills achieved .
in ancient barbarian kingdoms physical weak sons were often even murdered if they were first successor to the throne and a more adept other son was available .
so the ability to kill is a must for becoming a leader , leadership abilities are only a good benifit but no crucial requirement .

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your ability in combat is certainly about hitting as many enemies as possible. As you hit more enemies, ie, as you are involved in more combats, you will become better at it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">true but see below

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So what? That archer managed to hit _10 times_. That's quite an accomplishment, and he would certainly become a better archer after that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">the archer managed to hit 10 times but he is DEAD .
new modern , even more clear example : i take ww 2 cause i love that era for squad level tactical combat , you can simply replace it by any modern war :
the ability to hit is nice but as long as you can't kill what you hit it is irrelevant .

the russian KW/KV 1 series had so thick armor that it could only be penetrated long range through the 8,8 flak cannon .
so when the germans met the first KW/KV 1 when raiding russia in 1941 when the Pz III ( german mbt 1939-1943 ) shot at them at e.g. 1000/500 meters distance they had a really high hitting ratio because they had better targetting optics and the crews were better skilled .
but even the side / rear armor of the KW/KV 1 was so strong that it even couldn't be penetrated by the newer 5cm KwK's from the newer Pz III models at normal combat ranges .
the russian KW/KV 1 vice versa penetrated even the front armor of the Pz III at far combat ranges . although the Pz III landed probably something like 90% hits and the KW/KV 1 only like 50% he destroyed 1 Pz III with almost every hit while vice versa it was impossible .

so hitting is a requirement but it doesn't guarantee success = making a kill .

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You've used a double negative in this sentence, so it's kind of hard to figure out what you mean. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sorry i meant i still would prefer the d2 lod / nwn xp system with xp for kills / shared for party , bonus xp for the killer .

edit : typo

[ July 29, 2004, 23:27: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

something back to topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[qb]Tramplers
Units with the Trample ability require a certain amount of finesse. A good group of tramplers can absolutely trash an enemy formation - but should those same tramplers rout they will trash your own forces as they flee! A common mistake after seeing this behavior (and probably losing most of an army and some commanders) is to put tramplers off on the side of a battle field so that if they flee they will be able to move away without crushing any friendly units. But this is foolish given that fighting almost always gravitates to the center of the battlefield.

The trick to using trample units is to just make sure that they don't break. The most effective way to do this is to manipulate their group morale by adding many high morale units to their group. This will insure that they stay in the fight even when they start getting wounded and killed. Of course you will also want your priests on hand casting SoC and Fanaticism.
[\qb]

you could add that 2 of the best tramplers are undead , behemoths + carrion beast tramplers .
they don't need any backup and can never rout because of morale 50 .
iirc in an older thread was found out that a 3:1 ratio of morale boost troops / trampler is enough as long as the boost troops aren't damaged severely too .
if you have long range bows who will hit an enemy in the first round of combat ( mans longbowmen e.g. or ulmish arlabests ) you can mix them into the tramplers and give them no battle orders .
the tramplers are then set by default to attack closest and the archers to fire closest .
as long as the archers suffer no casualities even if all tramplers get slaughtered they don't rout .
independent archers are always set to fire closest : so put a few high prot high morale troops with hold orders before the archer/trampler group . they will catch all indy missile fire .
since indy fliers are so uncommon these battle order can defeat 95% of indeps with almost no casualities .

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

What is this talk about me? I've been around, I just don't have time all the time to post. Though I am still around, like the Gestapo with a brick in a sock waiting for people to step out of line.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the QR's, a certain unnamed developer is on vacation (good for him) and I am waiting for clarification so the QR's are relatively accurate as I can get them before everyone comes with the little mistakes that drive me mad. The other two (SCQR and MIQR) latest Versions with all updated information are waiting to be PDF'd (or might be already PDF'd, my Email is being annoying with Spamfilters) and will be sent out as soon as they are satisfactoraliy "perfect". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

i have much freetime at the moment .
so i got the following idea .
there are many things which are rather undocumented .

so my plan is the following :
i make a new thread were i ask all newbie questions on which i have no information so far and you experts answer .
the few questions left over for which either no one has a clue or there is disagreement between experts i post then in a small new thread and please illwinter for an answer because they have to know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

after that i will write up a guide or two ( most likely in .doc or .xls ) and make them public then .
unfortunately i have no free webspace so if i would mail the guide to you arryn would you be so kind to host it on your site then ?
i think this would be a good solution http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

if i get enough positive responses to my plan in the next couple of hours i start my effort in 5-10 hours .
so hopefully my guide is finished in 3-4 days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Now that was a surprise! To me anyway. I've played Dom2 a lot less than you and most others here have, but I have seen a couple of 5 star units. Antrax is especially easy to punch up to 5 stars in a really short time, and my friend got a Machaka Black Sorcerer (ranbdom pick water) to 5 stars in something like 50 turns. Gave it Ring of Regen and Pendant of Luck and loosed it first on indies and later used it to singlehandedly wipe out rather large enemy forces (AI, yes, but still).

Of course, I suppose it's much harder to keep SCs or thugs alive long enough in MP as opposed to SP or co-op games against the AI as we've been playing.

Edi

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with the "no perfect system" part of this, and with the rest of the post, but I feel that I must point out something that you've overlooked, either through lack of familiarity with SWG (which has many, mnay flaws as a game I admit, else I'd still be playing it), forgetfulness (happens to you a LOT), or deliberately so as to not be inconvenienced by it. That something is that SWG "support" characters do get XPs for noncombat activities. Virtually everything you do in the game can garner XPs for the appropriate character (ie: provided they have skill in the area of what they're doing). Medics get XPs for healing, crafters get XPs for crafting, et cetera. That part of the SWG game, at least, was fairly well thought out. Balancing the game, OTOH, was a disaster ...

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

"Paper and Pencil RPGs such as Runequest, AD&D and the like certainly never insisted that a character make a kill to get experience, or 1st level mages would never reach lvl 2; "

Actually when I played AD&D 18 years ago this is what we happened but our mage got to 4th level when we were 1st by getting xp for putting on a magic ring! Ah the sheer madness of the thing..

"I'd suggest that your exposure to RPGs, and to computer games, is somewhat more limitted than you might like to believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif "

Well some of us have probably been playing RPG since before he was born...

Pickles

[ July 30, 2004, 09:27: Message edited by: Pickles ]

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

Going back to main topics:

I think there are 2 things that people playing dom2 needs ... and two level:

things: rules and guides
level: newbies and expert

Usually (and also dom2) games provides in the box the rules for newbies, some games also the rules for experts and few of them also guides for newbies.

We can try to write a very usefull document keeping this level in minds:

we can just try to complete the rules of the manual with all the kind of informations newbies needs and than also a "in depth" look for expert.

Also with the guides we could just try to write a sort of newbies strategy guide (just telling the fondamental things a pleyer must do or not do) and than a in-depth guide.

I think we can use (and rewrite) the manual addenda just to cover the rules (both newbies and expert) and try to write a strategy guide (both for newbies and expert).

For each chapter I was thinking a sort of brief description and than a box (expert box) with formulas and details ... the same for the strategies.

In the guide we can concentrate on two things: general strategies and race/theme specific, on both level (basic=newbies, and expert).

Obviously we have to keep in mind and use all the usefull documents are already avaible on the net.

Some more suggestion ?

good play
Liga

PS. I'm still updating my Manula Addenda with all the suggestions/notes your are giving me in that post and also in other ... I things it could be still usefull, expecially to peolple tha don't have too much time to spend searching the forum ... I hope to realease a new Versione (1.1) before the end of that month

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">small additional info for your manual addenda http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

for ae/sg ermor you should include that sentence :
starting site unholy sepulchre produces 5 gems on poor world / 10 on normal world and 20 on rich world .

for every other nation/theme the starting site gem income is independent from world richness settings .


afaik about ermor freespawns and reanimations now almost everything is know .
but not so about pan cw .
i would like to try a pan cw newbie guide first and as expert info provide the freespawn/reanimation rates .
i start a new thread for gathering that info http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: idea about newbie guide . plz share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">added ... thank. It will be in the next release