New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Source: Muspelheim

Muspelheim - "World of Searing Flame"

"The Muspelheim is the very opposite of Niefelheim's ice giants. These giants adore fire and worship mainly their fire giant god, Surt. Their whole region is covered by flames and thus trespassing is more than a challenge."

So Muspel is greatly a mixture of Abysians' heat and Jotuns' giants. Altough there are already two other Jotun themes available, I see no reason to have a third one. Here are some ideas for the theme:

- Like Abysians all Muspels have the heat ability
- Boulder throwers replaced by Brimstone throwers
- New pretender god: Fire Giant, Surt (fire elemental strong)
- This theme uses purely fire so evocation is worth of investing
- National spells: Summon Fire golem and Comet
- Gem income 6F
- Even more costly troops than Niefel's

[ August 04, 2004, 17:32: Message edited by: Azhur ]

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

yeah in d&d there are fire + ice gigants too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

there is already a spell in dominions 2 : warriors of muspelheim iirc a lvl 8 or 9 enchantment spell which makes your units fire immune iirc .

again i post my idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

perhaps illwinter could include some well balanced player mods as additional themes / nations in 2.13 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pvk's amazon empire + thilocks draconian mod so far are good candidates .
your fire gigant jotunheim may be a 3rd one if you make a mod with this yourself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Seems kinda like Abysia, only much, much less versatile.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Less versatile, but with a heavy fire income they could quickly alchemize mini-SC's. I see no reason for them to be more expensive than nieflheim though... Water + Death > Fire IMO.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

fire giants weren't made of lava or anything, so i see no reason why they should radiate heat. as well, i don't see the genie as being especially thematic... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

how about loki as a pretender? in effect, he went over to the giants' side. perhaps stealthy, death magic, heat and cold immune...

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What makes you think those mods are well balanced for MP games?

To the best of my knowledge, they have received little use in multiplayer games, thus they can hardly be said to be well balanced - they haven't been tested for balance.

Most of the mods that I've seen are in fact very unbalanced, and I only know of one MP game in which the different mods are being played.

From what I've seen there, the latest Version of Ashikawa is pretty decently balanced, but most of the other ... 5 mods in that game are overpowered, noticeably so even in SP games.

Before any mod was brought into the game as a theme, I'd expect a _lot_ more playtesting and balancing to go on, to avoid the "Oh! Who would ever have thought of _that_! Wow, that's great! I want that theme because it is so powerful!" syndrome.

It's a lot of work to balance in-game modifications and additions.... Now, maybe Illwinter's beta testers have been looking at the mods for balance - but since the mods are someone else's IP, Illwinter can't simply tweak them as needed. Intellectual Property right complications also arise, because someone's mod would be getting bundled with a commercial, for-sale, product.

A couple of companies have done this, but they've tended to be larger companies, with lawyers to deal with just such complications. (Think maps and mods being distributed with/for Quake, HalfLife, etc.)

Edit : For that matter, how can you seriously propose a mod that hasn't even been created yet, hasn't even had proposed troops / commanders / etc, as a "well balanced mod"?

[ August 04, 2004, 16:11: Message edited by: Cainehill ]

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

This is my second time with modding (unfinished warcraft mod), but wish me luck and give some tips to make this theme as balanced, accurate and realistic as possible. EVERY SUGGESTION ON THIS THREAD WILL BE NOTIFIED.

Archaeolept: About Surt

Ok he's not a genie, but a fire giant. Loki's a good idea also, but since Surt is truly the one for Muspelheim, I like him better for the theme.

[ August 04, 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: Azhur ]

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

A pretty easy way to balance a mod is by looking at illwinter's mode guidelines in their mod page.
The only flaw is that troops that are balanced that way will be really boring because they'd have to be humanoids to fit the cost/attack/defense/strength/protection scheme of the guidelines...

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

You could use Loki as a hero who can join you. He is known of the god of trickster but also god of fire.

You could use the 'person' called 'Lue' which means fire. I don't know if you read the story where Utgaards-loki tricks Tor some challenging? Loki (Not utgaards-loki) should eat alot of food against 'Lue'...Loki lost the eating contest to Lue because noone can consume as much and fast as 'Lue'


best regards
Thilock *an asátruár*

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Loki as a hero.. why not? And Lue is the ultimate supply-consumer. Not bad at all.

I'm thinking of making muspelheim a bit different in the ways of endurance. These are giants who are
literally too hot to keep any kind of armor, so they trust on their high hp rating (40? 50?). Some are capable of wearing armor, but it must be made of steel, otherwise it would burn down. That'll make protection value high, but their encumbarance is incredible high (pick a <5) and defence is also much lower. Balancing this will be somewhat difficult, but test and try is the way to go...

[ August 05, 2004, 05:59: Message edited by: Azhur ]

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

You might want to give them a bit of earth magic, so they can get magma spells.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly like Abysia.
I suppose we should also note that this theme's access to fire magic and fire immune units provides a defense against Dom 2's most reliable giantkillers: Swarms of expendable goons(Especially undead), and point-blank annihilation*. A giant mage is also one of the few non-SC mages that can be safely placed in the front lines, casting Flame Eruption after Flame Eruption.

* Granted, shock resistance would be a good deal more useful. Still, fire resistance beats cold resistance by a not-insignificant margin.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

First problem(s) sprouted... bad monster descr. Hope you can solve it. I used the ashikaga.md as a body for my project, so there are some insignificant affinities. The project is still under heavy construction, but please post comments also. Still lacks priests, additional mages, new pretender, national heroes+spells and unique equipment.

#modname "Fire of Muspelheim"
#domVersion 2.12
#description "A mod changing the nation of Jotunheim into the homeland of Muspehulm, a nation of fiery giants who worship their almighty fire giant god, Surt."
#icon "./muspelheim/muspelicon.tga"
#Version 0.2 "Mod created by Azhur for use in the public domain. This mod uses unit numbers 1800-1811 and an alternate nation flag.

New National Summons

Summon Lava Golem (5F) - Summons a lava golem with high protection and strength. (Not implemented yet)

#newarmor 300
#name "Rock Mail"
#type 5
#prot 8
#def -2
#enc 3
#end

#newmonster 1800
#name "Muspel Militia"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/militia.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/militia2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 38
#prot 2
#size 4
#str 18
#enc 5
#att 10
#def 8
#prec 10
#mr 12
#mor 10
#gcost 33
#rcost 12
#weapon "Jotun Axe"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1801
#name "Muspel Hurler"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/muspelhurler.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/muspelhurler2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 35
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 20
#enc 4
#att 10
#def 5
#prec 10
#mr 12
#mor 12
#gcost 40
#rcost 10
#weapon "Boulder"
#weapon "Axe"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1802
#name "Muspel Axeman"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/axeman.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/axeman2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 12
#mapmove 2
#hp 39
#prot 5
#size 4
#str 20
#enc 6
#att 10
#def 9
#prec 10
#mr 12
#mor 12
#gcost 40
#rcost 20
#weapon "Jotun Axe"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1803
#name "Muspel Huskarl"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/huskarl.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/huskarl2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 38
#prot 4
#size 4
#str 20
#enc 5
#att 10
#def 11
#prec 10
#mr 12
#mor 13
#gcost 48
#rcost 15
#weapon "Jotun Spear"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1804
#name "Muspel Giant"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/muspelgiant.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/muspelgiant2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 14
#mapmove 3
#hp 85
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 23
#enc 4
#att 11
#def 11
#prec 11
#mr 15
#mor 14
#gcost 200
#rcost 24
#weapon "Jotun Axe"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#heat
#holy
#end

#newmonster 1805
#name "Muspel Wanderman"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/wanderman.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/wanderman2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 14
#mapmove 2
#hp 43
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 22
#enc 4
#att 12
#def 10
#prec 10
#mr 13
#mor 13
#gcost 66
#rcost 7
#weapon "Jotun Battleaxe"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#mountainsurvival
#end

#newmonster 1806
#name "Muspel Hirdman"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/hirdman.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/hirdman2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 45
#prot 3
#size 2
#str 14
#enc 2
#att 13
#def 17
#prec 13
#mr 11
#mor 14
#gcost 100
#rcost 18
#weapon "Jotun Longsword"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1807
#name "Muspel Scout"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/scout.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/scout2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 14
#mapmove 2
#hp 42
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 22
#enc 4
#att 12
#def 10
#prec 10
#mr 13
#mor 13
#gcost 65
#rcost 8
#weapon "Jotun Spear"
#weapon "Javelin"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#noleader
#stealthy
#holy
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#mountainsurvival
#end

#newmonster 1808
#name "Muspel Herse"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/herse.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/herse2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 43
#prot 5
#size 4
#str 21
#enc 6
#att 11
#def 11
#prec 10
#mr 12
#mor 13
#gcost 80
#rcost 18
#weapon "Jotun Longsword"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#holy
#okleader
#fireres 100
#coldblood
#end

#newmonster 1809
#name "Muspel Jarl"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/jarl.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/jarl2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 13
#mapmove 2
#hp 48
#prot 5
#size 4
#str 22
#enc 6
#att 12
#def 12
#prec 10
#mr 13
#mor 14
#gcost 150
#rcost 18
#weapon "Jotun Longsword"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#fireres 100
#holy
#goodleader
#end

#selectmonster 1810
#name "Muspel Worshipper"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/worshipper.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/worshipper2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 15
#mapmove 2
#hp 42
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 21
#enc 4
#att 11
#def 13
#prec 10
#mr 17
#mor 12
#gcost 270
#rcost 12
#weapon "Quarterstaff"
#armor "Rock Mail"
#fireres 100
#magicskill 0 3
#magicskill 5 1
#magicskill 50 1
#poorleader
#researchbonus 7
#end

#newmonster 1811
#name "Muspel King"
#spr1 "./muspelheim/king.tga"
#spr2 "./muspelheim/king2.tga"
#descr ""
#ap 14
#mapmove 3
#hp 100
#prot 3
#size 4
#str 25
#enc 4
#att 12
#def 16
#prec 12
#mr 18
#mor 15
#gcost 640
#rcost 35
#weapon "Jotun Longsword"
#armor "Rusty Scale Mail Hauberk"
#fireres 100
#holy
#heat
#fear -3
#goodleader
#researchbonus 7
#end

#selectnation 12

#name "Muspelheim"
#descr "First of worlds was Muspellheim, in the Southern regions. It is bright and hot. That place is aflame, and burning and it is impassable to those who
are not native to it. There is one called Surt who is stationed there at the frontier to defend that land. He has a flaming sword and at the end of the world
he will go and wage war and burn the whole world with fire."

#flag "./muspelheim/muspelflag.tga"
#color 0.60 0 0.43
#clearrec
#nothemes

#clearsites
#startsite "Fountain of Fire"
#startsite "Fountain of Fire"
#end

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

That reminds of my suggested Abysia theme, "Blood of Giants", with Giantbred (immune to both heat and cold), as a gag poking fun at the Jotunheim "Smouldercone Traitors" theme in....2.08?

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Im just guessing here (Im in the spirit of helping mods lately, check out the draconian mod thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif), maybe its the fact that your monster #descr is ""?
Try writing "incomplete" in all of the #descr's and see if it works, I don't think anything else can cause a problem with monster description.
BTW, it might be the mod description (if it would have said there is a problem in the MOD description) which is that Im not sure if all regular punctuation is allowed, some games have special commands for things like apostrophes (&amp;apos for that, atleast in one other game =P).

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Ok the code is working fine now (thanks to Agrajag). Now I've come up with the next problem: unit graphics. I am trying to edit Jotunheim units to fiery Muspelheim giants, but there's one unsolved issue. When I take a model (e.g Jotun jarl), I can only use the colors, that are already on it (like brown, black and grey). So that forbids me using red and yellow, which are to be the main colors of Muspel units. So.. help me out!

Oh and I'm using Paint Shop Pro 8.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Save the file as .jpg Now open &lt;JotunJarl&gt;.jpg
Then when you are finished recolouring save the file as .tga

That's how I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


best regards
Thilock

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Actually, the easier way (if you are using photoshop, the best .tga editor I know) is just to change the color definition.
Image&gt;Mode&gt;RGB Color

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

I think the result will be best with the 'Hue &amp; saturation' option IMHO...marking the parts you wanna change and do the 'H&amp;S'.
Also if he wants to add more than recoluring the jotuns like giving them a new sword or alike, it will be a good Idea to change format. That would be my advise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif...but again we all works diffrently when it comes to paint programs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



with best regards
Thilock

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

That hue &amp; saturation was nice.. units lack personality though, so I'm prepared to do em pixel by pixel.

I turned jotunheim gifs -&gt; tga-files and tested. I get this kind of error message, "FSA: bad tga file". What could it possibly mean?

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Try uncompressing the tga file.
When you save the tga file in PSP8 (save as) there is a box called 'advance', press the button and an option appears. Click 'uncompressing tga'.

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Also, check that it saves in 24Bit color, the game says it can use 32 as well, but everytime I tried it didnt work...
So go for 24!

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Azhur, did you get my PM?

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Yep.. you're free to assist me.

Now a couple of coding problems:

- No matter what leader-command i give, all my commanders have a leadership of 25, except my mage (40). What's the issue here?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[PROBLEM SOLVED]
- My new unique pretender, Surt, won't show up in the SC selection screen. Why is that?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- How can I edit my pretender cost?

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Can you post an example of the writing codes? I don't got have that problem so I think I can assist you on that problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


best regards
Thilock

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Azhur, here some samples. I made two, one without burnt sizes and one with.

256x64 pix banner

http://thilockdominus.freehomepage.c...eimbanner1.jpg http://thilockdominus.freehomepage.c...eimbanner2.jpg

128x32 pix banner

http://thilockdominus.freehomepage.c...eimbanner3.jpg http://thilockdominus.freehomepage.c...eimbanner4.jpg

Feel free to use them, or if you have anything else in mind then please tell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


best regards
Thilock

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

Check the first page of my thread and there you'll see the code.

That logo sure looks fine, though somewhat reminds of your draconian one. Still very well crafted, I'll put it in use right away.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

All right guys I'm back on track with this mod.

Questions:

- What modding command do I use to define the cost of a pretender? I tried #pretendercost-command, but that didn't work out..

- Is a 64x64 pixel sized tga-file right when creating sprites for giants?

Re: New Jotun theme: Muspelheim
 

It's #gcost
Enter the number on many points the pretender should cost.

From the Mod manual:
#gcost
The cost in gold. This is also the cost in design points for pretenders.[/i]

Read somewhere that a normal human unit is 32 pix high I dunno how wide. But I'm making the elf on 64x64 pix and the elf is 32 pix high so their are space to weapons and alike.