NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Today, my Glorious Empire has fallen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The Mighty Spelunkers, followers of the "Be nice untill you Die" Philosophy have reaped the rewards of divine kindness.

I have one thing to say to those who destroyed this Supreme Dynasty,.. Have you ever heard the phrase "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Well, My defeat came easy, since I was not a violent player and played a defensive game. (mines and satelites only untill the end when I built a tiny defense fleet) You only succeeded in wasting resources on someone who was not a threat to anyone in the game.

Oh well, Such is life,.. To those that remain in the game, May the best (or badist) Empire win.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

More like "Be quiet until you die" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. I would have loved to get answers to my meesages, hear about your motives and desires, and maybe even try to be nice also http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif. It's so difficult to be nice to a race that seems to be hibernating collectively...

But, who wants to be nice when playing SE ? I thought we were competing for the title Evil Overlord of the Galaxy (tm) - never seen something like Nice Overlord of the Galaxy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thanks for bearing with us, you were a reliable fast player, maybe next time we can be nice to you too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif !

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

I can but say you were my favourite type of neighbour. One who stays on his side of the border http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. If only more actual allies were like that.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Hmmm...well, we don;t want to conquer the galaxy...we're good neighbors...not ambitious like that...

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Yea... standard disclaimer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Of course, it's only me - the player - who wants to conquer the galaxy.

First Speaker Roanon of the Primeval Collective is just so compassionate that he wants to give the benefit of his wise rulership to planets whose current leaders obviously lack such a wisdom. Otherwise, he is a nice chap and good neighbor, of course....

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Should I declare the empire dead?

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

hmmm, I have no planets, no ships, and no population,.. hmmmm I think I am dead. so yes you can declare my empire dead.

I joined the game to have fun, and I did. It was not my intent to 'conquor the galaxy' but to see just how long I could Last without being 'agressive'. You might ask 'Why play the game if I had no intention of winning?' Well, For my first PBW with more than one opponent, I think I faired pretty well. After all 5 other empires fell before mine, so I'm not the worst, and now I can strive to be better in my next game.

One thing that was high on my priority list was to try my best to play my turns when I got my e-mail notification. (I didn't want to hinder the pace of the game.) I'm proud to say that on the posting-speed test I've been among the top three for the duration of my time in the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you all were slow, (RL can and does tend to affect the rate of play) I'm just saying that I managed to achieve one of my 'hidden' goals with this game.

I had lots of fun, and I learned a few things. Besides when this game ends and there are 19 loosers I'll be a part of the 'Majority' I like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Have a great day, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

I usually try to play "Powerful" but "friendly".

The success at either varies....

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Trying to gain enough power to be able to play friendly is a good choice, I usually do that too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif. Then I sit back and watch who is starting to behave unfriendly - after all, I didn't build all these shiny fleets to let them stay mothballed forever http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Friendly: [FRENDLI]: Attitude towards another empire that
1. Is not a threat (eg. not place 2 when you are place 1)
2. Is not allied with a threat (basically anyone not allied to you)
3. Has no assets (such as a different atmosphere) deemed of use.
4. on consideration has not appeared to do anything overtly hostile (such as send any ships at all into your space)
5. the most important one, Is 10 places above you.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Well, actually I never really care much about conquering the galaxy, I play for the roleplaying and political aspects. They're much more fascinating to me. Otherwise, the game really does seem like just an "extremely complex spreadsheet" as someone once said. It's the interaction and the roleplayong that make it interesting for me. So, I stick by my earlier comments: my empires all reflect my personality in games - I take a very non-zero-sum, cooperative approach....of course, I have never "won" a PBW game yet, but that ain't a surprise...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

In the affairs of sentient creatures, there inevitably comes a time when they must chose action or honor.

The Aether Lords have never sought out conflict or expansion except to defend themselves, but such a time is now upon the Aether Lords, and we will choose the path of honor, not inaction.

We Aether Lords originally came from Earth and we have long pledged ourselves to her defense should she come under attack once again. This has happened, and worse.

The Primeval Collective have committed a wide variety of crimes, chief amongst them being their treacherous breaking of their words in their devastating surprise attack upon Earth, in which they murdered not only billions of Earth citizens, but at least 50 million Aether pilgrims as well --- pilgrims who had returned to the place of humanity's origins.

We regard both of these actions --- the breaking of their word and their attack upon the Federated Worlds --- to be evil.

But the Primeval have also:
· Engaged in numerous intel operations against their " allies" for many months now
· Manipulated the human alliance into wars first with the Narn, then with the Mar-Zen so they could expand at their expense
· Devastated and destroyed other peaceful peoples as well as openly admitting their intention to conquer the quadrant entirely

If left unchecked the Primeval will eventually conquer all the sentient species in the quadrant. We call upon ALL sentient species in the NGC4 quadrant to join us to rid the world of the evil that is the Primeval Collective. While we have no desire for conquest of Primeval worlds, those who help us can most certainly avail themselves of that booty.

Though the Primeval are powerful, together we will prevail. It may be tough, but it is better to trod a hard road than to sit idly by while one is conquered beneath the tentacles of a species such as the Primeval.

The Aether fight for honor and freedom, and we call upon you all to assist us to ensure your own freedom. Because if we do not stop them now, they will come for you too, eventually.

NGC4: Battle Report from the Primeval Front
 

We earlier asked for aid in our fight against the Hegemony of the Primeval collective.

It is our pleasure to release the first of our battle reports: we have discovered that Primeval warships have zero, count them, zero, defenses against fighters. A single force of 54 fighters of ours destroyed around 10 battleships of theirs, in addition to numerous other victories. This is encouraging, and we urge all sentient races who beleive in thier own soveriegnty to exploit it as they see fit. (this is a vulnerability the Primeval will try to correct, of course)

We will avenge the second destruction of Earth. And we will refuse to bow down to Primeval control of the Quadrant! Arise, all ye races who would be free to choose your own destiny!

Aether


EDIT: it appears that there is a bug that caused the Primeval warships to not fire back. This needs to be looked into - they did have the ability to fire back, but they did not for reasons as yet unknown.

We shall see...
 

The Tyrellian Imperium has chosen thus far to remain neutral in this conflict between the Aether Lords, and the Primeval Collective. We shall assess the situation for a time, then perhaps decide to join one side or the other, depending upon the information that we shall endeavor to uncover.

We may also choose to remain neutral, as a conflict may devastate our worlds as well, should we choose the wrong side to join!

Re: We shall see...
 

Well, this conflict is not simply between Aether and Primeval, but since it resulted from a treacherous attack upon Earth by Primeval, Earth, Aether, and Primeval are involved. There are others, but I will not speak for them.

We respect your decision, our vessels will not intrude upon Tyrellian space...we only hope that your neutrality does not result in your eventual subjugation by the Primeval, although we fear exactly that. May your people prosper...but not under Primeval domination!

Aether

Re: We shall see...
 

And, we would like to reiterate that because we were forced into this conflict by the treachery and machinations of the Primeval, we have no ambitions on any systems or planets of theirs. As far as we're concerned, we stand to gain nothing from this but our survival and the survival of our allies. If others desired certain planets and "booty" from conquest of Primeval worlds, we feel that they should pursue those goals and we wholeheartedly support that, as the Primeval have engaged in base treachery...

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The Mar-Zen:....
Bleep.
So the foolish biological species finally realise the threat that is the Primeval. We calculate that it is too late for you too survive. The fate of the galaxy is cast.
Bleep.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The Amon'Krie answers the calls of its allies, and shall deploy its armada against the foe. One thousand warships are currently heading for the systems controlled by the Collective; there is no hope left for the galaxy but a swift defeat of their hegemony, whose roots are treachery and base cunning.

To all neutral Empires, we do ask you to assist the war effort to the best of your abilities. As we are speaking, our traders came back from the Collective worlds with 25% more minerals than two months ago, which means the Collective is now producing several hundred thousand more minerals than two months before. If their production is increasing by one million every two or three months, no Empire will be able to stand against them in a short time, either alone or in a powerful alliance.

As such, the Continuum is declaring war upon the Collective as we are speaking. Betrayal heralds the end of all Empires, as demonstrated by the slaughter of the infamous Narn Regime. Lesson has taught us that an alliance powerful enough is all that is needed to bring down a treacherous hegemony; we are reading ourselves to repeat this lesson.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Check the game forums. No defenses for example just means "not fired back because of some dubious bug exploit". I consider quitting this game if there is no full explanation of what has happend.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The Narn were betrayed by none but themselves. The war with the Narn began with their own treachery and a sneak attack on our peaceful people, and their fate was sealed by this action.

Our people can accept a great many things, but an attack without provocation is not one of them, and they rallied magnificently. It was this that led to the destruction of the Narn - who were more than twice as large and powerful as our people at the beginning of hostilities.

Do not fool yourselves with any illusions as to the 'nobility' of the Narn.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Which is indeed our point. The betrayal of the Narn brought down their destruction; the same goes true for any Empire. To say the Narn might have been honourable is obviously nonsensical; all know full well the treacherous actions of this regime, and the fate that befallen on them.

As the Narn were defeated after their treachery, so other powerful Empires may be crushed, following the footsteps of the Narn. And so the Collective will fall as well.

I do not have the slightest clue about what might have caused this problem Roanon. The only thing looking like an explanation would be intelligence (the project destroying treaties between two Empires). There would have been no Messages, but it shouldn't have prevented you from opening fire. Hmm...

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

No, there is definitely something weird going on. I declared war on him, but our relations are now listed as "none". His ships did not fire back, even though they had the ability. I would say that his ships were acting as if they were still allied to me, and mine were acting as if we were at war. Which is obviously a bug.

Suggestions on how to deal with this? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Alarik

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Yes, I have also a "none" treaty listed. From both of you. And I did no Messages from both of you. I have no explanation. I hope this will fix itself, I will not accept another turn loosing dozens of battleships to light cruisers and well-defended planets against fighters just because they don't fire back.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The treacherous Aether Lords of course try to cover their actions. It was clear that a war has been prepared against our peaceful empire. Increasingly more ridiculous demands from the Federation have been made, up to the point that we should surrender a complete well-developed system to them. Minelayers have been sent into our territory. Warp closers have been positioned on our most important warppoints. We are sure satisfying any demand would have led to more demands, and when we finally would have rejected even more ridiculous demands, the prepared fleets would have attacked.

We just have made a first strike against what we knew would certainly become the spearhead of an assault on our empire. That the Aether Lords now jump in and declare war so fast and easy, despite our long explanations about our reasons for this war, only eliminates the Last doubts that they have been scheming against us. They now just try a Last desperate effort to carry out their evil plots despite our nearly successful countermeasures.

It has already been pointed out how ridiculous their accusations against our Collective are. The Narn never have been directly attacked by us, rather the Aether Lords were happy to join as fast as possible in greedy demand of new planets. It still escapes our wisdom where we have devastated or destroyed peaceful people. We still hear the cries for help from the Federation after which we attacked their attacker, the Earth 2000g Alliance. We still can recall the numerous complaints about the MAR-Zen and their disregard of any neighbors borders. We just have helped where we could, and brought our wisdom to those worlds ruled by less wise rulers. All the planets under our rule now praise our wisdom, and alien races florish and prosper as well as our own citizens.

The evil intents of the Aether Lords are furthermore clearly shown when they announce they just want to destroy and kill what they will find. While accusing us when we attacked a well-defended enemy planet and destroyed it by collateral damage, without intent, they did not even try to bring in troops, went on a rampage raid killing our peaceful citizens in mindless and blind rage, doing the very same of what they wrongly accused us. That means even by their own standards the Aether Lords are evil and should be destroyed, like every treacherous race has been destroyed in this galaxy up to now.

Again we assure all races that we have never attacked unprovoked, and will never attack anyone unprovoked. Our wise rulership is not as mad as the Aether Lords try to describe with easy to be seen motives. Also, the report of the Amon'krie of our alleged resource production can easily be recognized as false; we neither have 25% more minerals as 2 months ago (20% due to the addition of systemwide robotic factories, which obviously is a once-only incentive), and one million every two or three months would mean the galaxy is not even a year old if taken seriously. Every race should remember that our traders give away freely these riches, while profiting less from incoming trade. Still our wisdom does not mind and break these treaties.

That the Amon'krie now try to join against us, has been expected. They are like vultures feasting on what they think is weak or dead. We still see their rush to the Narn planets, a former ally of them. We still know what they tried to do to the poor Narrewians, which our wise rulership saved from certain destruction by Earth 2000g and MAR-Zen fleets. While we will punish the Aether Lords for their treachery first, we will only defend against the Amon'krie vultures. Any wise race is invited to attack them, we will soon make sure there is no fleet left to retalliate. We do not want to expand further in that direction, but we invite all honorable and peace-loving races to gain strength by taking over the ill-gotten gains of the Amon'krie policy. We want to strengthen the rightful and just, so that they do not have to fear us and act mad out of sheer fear, like maybe the poor Aether Lords, who have been more wise in the past.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The Amon'Krie has never, ever, been involved in an alliance with the Narn Regime on equal terms. The old Amon-Kurath was forced into giving his assent to an alliance with the Narn, a blade in his back. The Narn warfleet was also waiting for this pretence to invasion, and so we had but the choice; an alliance with the Narn was imposed on us, for otherwise our people would have been slaughtered.

Our current operations have been to secure our borders and to retake the worlds the Narn Regime has taken from us with the same threats. We have no wish of expanding our borders to the Manticore Kingdom, but we merely seek to cast the line of our borders in all directions. Would such concerns for our safety be labelled as being "vultures", preying on the dead? If it is so, there are quite a lot of carrion crows in the galaxy.

Our relationship with the Narrewians has certainly not been the best in the universe under the rulership of Amon-Kurath; for this, we apologise, and point out the Narrewians themselves seem not to hold any grudge with the Continuum for our past mistakes. Amon-Kurath has been growing more and more insane, and we suspect the Narns to have acted in this direction; who else could have feed our ruler with smoking herbs and various drugs? Only a few months ago did Amon-Kurath know his demise, and since then the Continuum has been working together with the Narrewians. You might want to know we have been helping them to rebuild their worlds, and gladly give up our colonies in their systems to their control. The Narrewians will vouch for our word and our honourable foreign policies.

Our figures for your mineral production did seem to be correct after all; do not forget to take into account the wonderful technological breakthrough that allows the transmutation of various resources into minerals. While we do not mind your wealth, we are more than concerned about what you will do with such an impressive income, and fear the answer.

Lastly, the Continuum did not hear anything about the reasons of the war with the Federation. And yet, the Federation are our closest allies, our friends and our neighbours. Therefore, you cannot pretend you had "long explanations about [your] reasons for this war" as we heard nothing regarding this conflict. It either means you do not involve yourself in diplomacy, save your own propaganda, or that you did not care about the consequences your actions might have with the Continuum. If you were to break off your attack against the Federation at once, and to take a formal step to improve your dealings with all Empires in the future, we would likely consider a truce with your people. Unlike others, the Continuum is willing to consider peace when a war has been made groundless, despite all your prejudices in this matter.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Indeed, we did not inform the Amon'krie about our problems with the Federation. We apologize for this, we probably should have raised our voice earler. But this has begun as a conflict within the anti-MARZen alliance, openly discussed between President Hippocrates and us with the Aether Lords, Manticores, True Republic being informed simultaneously. We did not want to whine about our problems to other races, but were determined to solve them on our own. We just informed the Aether Lords in more intimate detail, they being one of the most active parts in this alliance, hoping they would be able to get words of wisdom to the Federation. Unfortunately it looks like words of unwisdom have been fed to them before, resulting in this regrettable war, making our efforts obsolete from the start. We did not know this.

While we have tried to maintain contacts to the Amon'krie in the past, informing them of the current problems and trying to involve them in our politics, we never received satisfactory responses, just short Messages more or less acknowledging that our message has been received and read, but no reaction or words about their own situation. We were not informed in any way about closer than normal relations to the Federation, we just suddenly saw a military alliance had quietly been formed. We never received announcments or reason for this. We had to assume this was just another step from the Federation in direction of forming an all-surrounding threat to our empire, totally in line with their current policy against us.

So, maybe there just has been a misunderstanding between our empires. Maybe we have not done the utmost to improve our relations, but we have tried, and we must point out that this is more than we can say from you. We also were never informed about the now revealed baneful relations to the Narn, and you did not attack until after they were totally crushed. Thousands of warships should have been able to attack earlier, especially when the Narn were involved in desparate fights at the other end of their empire. Only when the Narn were dead, massive aquisitions of territory have been made, more than by the victors and rightful inheritants of that territory. Therefore the term vulture which, we agree here, applies to more than one. Our wisdom has never led us to occupy planets from races that we did not attack ourselves.

If you are worried about our production, you may look at your own plus your trades especially from us - it is not very far from that, considering that we do not get that much in trade income ourself. Only recently a gap has opend. But this is at least partially your own fault - we have invested in peaceful development, increasing health, safety and productivity of our citizens. We did not construct thousands of warships. Rather, we are trying to build a ringworld in our home system as a monument for our peaceful expansion and to be admired for our technological achivements. This has been our main joy and pride up to now, not been the building of huge warfleets to threaten our neighbors or other wise peaceful empires.

If the Amon'krie force us to change this policy we will do, reluctantly. But we can do. Still, we will not unleash this power on the whole galaxy. We will still listen to all the smaller empires and their cries for help, and fight greed and pure aggression against minors who are unable to defend, wherever and whenever possible. It is an easy excuse to blame the former leader for atrocities done to the Narrewians, but was this a single man or just a representative of the peoples general attitude? While we are happy to hear your words about improved relations to the Narrewians, they can continue to trust in us as a reliable guardian of their most basic interests, guaranteeing their survival after even the tiniest traces of evil races like the Narn or MAR-Zen have vanished forever.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The words of the Primeval are curious, and largely misrepresentations.

We'll dissect and show their falsehoods later. For now, we just want to also point out that we are not asking for assistance because they Primeval are evil, but becuase they are taking over the entire quadrant and will become unstoppable if not met now.

For us, this is a matter of history and righteousness. We fight to avenge broken allies and the murder of billions of humans.

For others, it is a matter of survival - for if the Primeval are not stopped now, they will come for you too, eventually, and they will be unstoppable then.

Aether

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Well the bug is gone. I don't dispute that it was unfair to the Primeval, but it is unfortunate that I am now in a war I didn't ask for and that the Primeval have gone on the offensive attacking some of my ships that they did not have reason to attack (or knowledge of) before.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

The turn was run with the same orders as previous with the addition of the war declaration.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Randallw, as I have been attacked by your and the Aether Lord's ships, I have assumed you have declared war as they did, causing the same bug as he. If you didn't break the treaty, it's even more strange than I thought. Lost/bugged Messages seem to be a reasonable explanation, but broken treaties without any side breaking it?
Are you absolutely sure you did not declare war or break the treaty? Maybe you forgot that you changed your turn on PBW after doing it first, maybe attacking on the Aether Lord's demand even if you did not really want? If you really did not order the attacks, maybe we should stop the turn again and try to find out what happend there, and find a way to fix it.

As for the new attacks, the bug caused only your ships to attack. So in the nebula where my uncloaked ships saw yours due to sensors but you didn't see mine, no combat was initiated - this being another effect of the bug. What happend now should have happend before, is correct programm behaviour and not effect of changed orders or something like that.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

well it does appear that some of his ships moved into the same space as some of my mine. In the previous turn if they had done that my warships there would have had their turkey shoot. This time they moved there after the war declaration.

Edit: For the purpose of clarification I will admit I did break the treaty (can't be supporting you while you fight my allies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif), but I never actually declared war. The battles are because I didn't move some of my ships away when I removed our treaty. I see what you mean though. I suppose in the nebula nothing happened before because you were cloaked. When you declared war I suppose although they were cloaked they attacked. I thought you had to uncloak manually to ever attack?.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Please specify where, I am sure it can be explained. Remember, the curious fightings in the bugged turn caused a lot of my fleets to halt due to one or more disabled ship unable to move. Now the fleets wiped away the lone attacking cruisers without suffering any adverse effects and were able to move on as planned.

Edit to answer the edit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif :
We can return to no treaty without problems if you wish. Ships and mines behave the same during war or no treaty, so apart from the diplomatic effect - which can be remedied - there is no difference.
Yes, cloaked ships do not attack. But in the nebula, I had not cloaked my ships (the earth2000 captured cruiser design can't cloak anyway), because I intended to be able to fight if I was attacked.
So what kept us from fighting were your missing sensors that did not enable you to see my ships even if they were uncloaked, so you did not initiate combat. Now my ships also check for initiating combat where not cloaked, and my sensors not being missing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif combat happend as it would have before if my ships had not been bugged.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

right, of course it was the nebula cloaking your ships. I assumed I would at least see ships in the same sector even in the nebula, obviously not. Well thats all cleared up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
To explain my replying in edit. I wrote the reply while Roanon was posting his so he had a reply before my initial reply. Since I don't believe in posting twice in a row I edit my Posts when they are Last.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Yes, nebulas hide even if ships are in the same sector. Otherwise 1-sector nebulas would be a lot less useful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

I have no problem with the edit, quite the contrary, sorry if I sounded like that. You just missed an opportunity to pad your postcount http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

So are we re-doing the turn? Is it OK for the rest of us to load the same file from Last go?

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Ruatha, I strongly suggest you run the next couple turns manually offline, whether or not you roll back any more. It's very common in the confusion of these kinds of things for someoene to upload an old .plr file, which sets off another round of needing to rerun turns.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Even though the rerun will not cause a change for especially more remote http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif empires, the host programm probably does some kind of Version check. So I think it is better if not neccessary to do the turn again using the latest turn files.

Re: NGC4 PBW Game News..
 

Re-do the turns, do not use any old Version.

Yes Geo. I'll run the next turn off-line.
If that is ok we'll be back on server, if problems next turn will also be off-line.