Shipyard Mod Idea
 

One of the cool things about some past sci-fi movies has been the CGI when they show a giant starbase in space contructing a ship in space (I think they did this in one of the Star Trek movies with the enterprise). However in SEIV almost all the construction is done planetside by planetary shipyards. Yes, I realize you can put shipyards on ships. But they are slower than planetside based ones, making them useful only when you have no planet near the fighting or are building a ring/sphere world.

I'd like to move the construction back to space stations. So I'm thinking I'd make my mod so planet-based ship yards only construct about one third to one fourth of their current speed, and the space station components can construct twice as fast as they do now.

Then at the beginning of the game, expansion with colony ships is not as fast and furious, and there is a calculated decision of whether to use the planetary ship yard to build a space station and use that to build colony/attack ships or pump out some of those first or just build the colony ships at the slower planetary rates.

I'd also mod the starbase research tree to give you larger construction components than the 400kt base one for the larger space station sizes. (E.G. a 800kt component that produces 50% faster and a 1200kt component that produces 100% faster).

Also since this key component is moved off-planet, they would need to be defended slightly differently (they could normally be as much 4-5 spaces away from the planet where the weapons platforms are). This would make satellite defense a little more important and also allow for the strategy of attacking an oponent just to wipe out the production bases and move on. Similar to a pearl harbor sneak attack (just get the carriers) or an allied bombing raid on production centers. Now you pratically have to defeat the entire planet defense structure. (which is still there but defends all the planetside facilities)

This makes raiding as opposed to full war a lot more feasible.

What do you people think? A good idea?

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I think it is an interesting idea. But I wonder how well the AI might adjust to such a major change to a fundamental aspect of the game. It may turn out that the AI wouldn't perform as well with your mod. I don't know that for a fact. But I thought I might warn you before you start on this.

When I think of a planetary space yard having a faster build rate than the space yard in a starbase, I explain it thusly: A planetary shipyard builds faster because it has the resources of the entire planet behind it. Because it is a planet, you can house more people and factories to help speed the building process. I actually tend to visualize planetary space yards building the actual ships in orbit.

Right now, planetary space yards build faster based on the population of the planet and their happiness. I personally think it is a mistake to introduce a ship or base based shipyard which can build ships faster than a planet whose population is 2000 M--presumably all of whom are, in some way or other, helping to build those ships faster.

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

That is an INTERESTING idea!

I like the idea of raiding, it's something I do a lot myself.

One of my goals for very early mid-game is to send a couple expeditions on slave raids, to capture populations that breathe different atmospheres than my own people. This enables me to have more un-domed colonies without all the bother of researching 7 levels of Planet Utilization and then waiting 3 years. These are very much raids, as the main goal is just to get in with minimum fighting, grab a small planet, herd the folks into a transport, and then haul *** for home.

I've also used raids for general harassment purposes, but your idea is actually far more appealing then any of these. I like it!

And I think construction in orbit would also have some serious advantages, if only in not having to fly the completed ship up out of the planet's gravity well...

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Well, you bring up two points.

The first about the AI, I already considered, even though I didn't mention it in my post. It may in fact hamstring me. Because the suggested mod would probably be very easy and quick to make otherwise. Testing would also not be so bad. If the AI handled it ok (it might, it does build space yards on space stations now) then I'd be all set. If the AI didn't. I'd can the project if there was no interest from anyone else. Modifying all the base AIs and all the specific races is more time than I'd otherwise spend.

The second point I disagree with. I see your point, not sure that 2 billion people can actually all help construct a frigate. There is some point near the end where only so many people are involved and that could (should???) take place off planet. Right now SEIV pays no consideration (other than Space ports) on how resources get from one location to another. And If the actual construction is going on in space (by your abstraction) with a planetary space yard, then I'd like to be able to attack those ships, or the partially constructed ships without having to wipe out almost the entire planet in the process.

Bottom line is I'd just like to create a new kind of flavor to some games. Play some with and some without the mod.

If space stations are the best way to produce ships and they become a lot more vulnerable to raids, it would change the strategy more towards building defense ships and creating limited raids. This would also tip the game a little more towards infrastructure building than large scale warfare. Possibly it'd make it harder to wipe out the AI quickly too, because it takes longer to build ships to blockade his world. People could also scrap their planet-side shipyards after they build a station-based one, and use the station one for ships, while building an extra facility planetside and then, since the planet queue is not needed for ships, build extra weapon platforms or planet-based defense with that queue.

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I think your idea has some really interesting possibilities, Lastseer. Actually sounds like it might be fun if it works.

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Space Yard Mod 1.0 by (Last)seer.

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I've always assumed the "planetary" shipyards were actually orbital. After all, the sectors are big enough to include any moons' orbits. At the scale of the game, I think "Low Earth Orbit" is within the spaces the planet takes on the tactical map.

While being able to do surgical strikes on the shipyards would be neat, I'm not sure how you'd implement it. An orbital shipyard would just be part of the massive "satellite group" in close orbit around the planet, so finding the individual satellite representing the spaceyard could be a problem.

OTOH, we already have orbital facilities in the form of Bases with the Shipyard component. How can we differentiate them from the Spaceyard facility?

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I think that a fatser rate of production on Space based yards is a good idea, as if you think about it you can gain access to the entire ship. This would allow for a faster construction of ships.

See Massive Ship Yards for my ideas on that subject.

I don't think that slowing done the planet based ones though is a good idea though, at the start of the game you only get yards 1, not very fast. With this level of tech at the start planets should build faster. Think about now in the USA. They build on the planet. But in the future mankind would most likely build massive ships off-planet, higher tech!!

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Maybe a solution is to add the faster space-based shipyards as higher tech areas on the research tree. In other words, continue the progression for Space Yards to levels 4-6; include both the regular-sized yards, with progressively faster rates, and the massive yards; maybe continue the tree to level 9, with faster rates for the massive yards. Something like:

Space Yards level 4: Space Yard IV, Massive Space Yard I

Space Yards level 5: Space Yard V, Massive Space Yard II

etc.

BTW - I really like the Temporal Space Yards the way they are. Building at a rate of 9000 min/org/rad per turn (after bonuses, of course)... now THAT'S the way to defeat your enemies!!!

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I wish there were some way you could design a massive space yard so that as a whole, it has a production of, for example, 6000 per turn. But it requires four components on four starbases to get that rate. Otherwise, if you only have three, you get 4500, two 3000 and one 1500, or some such arrangement.

I wonder if you would twist the RingWorld code to do this? I guess I just want a Massive Space Yard to be truly *massive*...

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
I wish there were some way you could design a massive space yard ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

create a hull more than 2x the size of a starbase, and make it require more life support stations than will FIT on a starbase. then make a shipyard component to take up the rest of the space that will also be too big to fit on a starbase. if you want, you can custom make a life support unit for it that has a hundred or so life support functions. this will make sure that it is to expensive to build for any other reason than for this one SY component, and for anything else you are just better off building SBs. of course, the whole idea breaks down when someone puts a master computer on one. not quite sure what to do about that.


or just do it on the same hull and make it as expensive as you want both resource and research wise, as the A.G. points out above.

Thanks AG.


[This message has been edited by Puke (edited 27 February 2001).]

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Enjoy!!!!

Name := Massive Space Yard I
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 400
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 1000
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 3000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 3000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 3000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 5 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 5
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Massive Space Yard II
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 800
Tonnage Structure := 400
Cost Minerals := 10000
Cost Organics := 2000
Cost Radioactives := 2000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Base Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 4000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 4000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 4000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 8 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 8
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Massive Space Yard III
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 2400
Tonnage Structure := 1000
Cost Minerals := 20000
Cost Organics := 4000
Cost Radioactives := 4000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Tech Area Req 2 := Base Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 5000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 5000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 5000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 10 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 10
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

As you see you have to increase yards to 4 that's all......

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Enjoy!!!!

Name := Massive Space Yard I
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 400
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 1000
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 3000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 3000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 3000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 3000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 5 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 5
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Massive Space Yard II
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 800
Tonnage Structure := 400
Cost Minerals := 10000
Cost Organics := 2000
Cost Radioactives := 2000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Base Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 4000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 4000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 4000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 4000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 8 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 8
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Massive Space Yard III
Description := Space based ship construction component.
Pic Num := 49
Tonnage Space Taken := 2400
Tonnage Structure := 1000
Cost Minerals := 20000
Cost Organics := 4000
Cost Radioactives := 4000
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Construction
Family := 6
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Tech Area Req 2 := Base Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Can construct with 5000 minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr := Can construct with 5000 organics per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr := Can construct with 5000 radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 5000
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr := Can repair 10 components per turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 10
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

As you see you have to increase yards to 4 that's all......

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I don't think what you suggested would do what I want. It's my fault. I wasn't very clear about what I was thinking. Can I try again, please?

First, let's just use existing vehicle sizes. That should simplify it so you don't confuse me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Let's say I want a component whose size is 2480 KT so it will only fit on a StarBase with a Master Computer III. Together, they add up to the size of the StarBase. Let's just call it a Massive Space Yard and leave it at just one tech level. This component can't build anything or repair anything. It is as useful as the RingWorld's Gravity Plating or Cabling by itself.

I also want a Massive Space Yard Control component which I'll also say I want to be 2480 KT. This component has all the attributes of a shipyard except, of course, that it builds at a rate of 6000 per turn. In addition, this component will not operate unless there are four Massive Space Yard components present in the same sector.

(Ideally, I would like this component to build at 1500,3000,4500 with just 1, 2, or 3 components in the same sector. But to keep it simple for me to understand, let's just say the only way it operates is at 6000 per turn with 4 components in the same sector.)

Hmm... maybe the key difference between what you are suggesting and what I'm thinking of is the stipulation that ALL four are equally sized. Plus, I don't want to make something bigger than a Starbase. Instead, I want 5 equally sized starbases. In my earlier post, I said just 4. But 5 seems to make more sense in terms of a control object similar to the RingWorld generator.

[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 27 February 2001).]

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I like the idea of linking ship yards. It makes sense to me as well.

Good luck!

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

I don't believe you can restrict a space yard component in that way. It's either there or not, you can't make it depend on if something else is accompanying it. At least I can't think of a way to do it.

But what's the difference of what you suggest (using multiple bases) and if you make it into one huge base instead? (Because that obviously can be done)

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lupusman:
But what's the difference of what you suggest (using multiple bases) and if you make it into one huge base instead? (Because that obviously can be done)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well.. originally, I had my head in the clouds day dreaming and was thinking about how cool it would be if the shipyard spanned a total of four sectors. Clearly that is impossible if not quite a bit silly. After all, you don't want a shipyard to take up more than a huge planet. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Shipyard Mod Idea
 

Slightly off topic but, it gives me an idea. I don't want it in the actual game but MM has hinted after bug fixes are complete they will add things to the game to make more complex and customizable mods. How about facilities that take up more space than just one slot.