PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

This is my first post here. I have lurked for a good long time and have been playing Gold since Last year when I bought the original game at a yard sale. Imagin my surprise when I discovered that there was a Gold Version and that the game was still being played.

I am new to the PBW thing and I find it a little more than frustrating when a player quits a game without telling any one. Especially any games I host.

I was thinking that a player rating system at PBW or for PBW players would be a novel idea. Since I cannot get the PBW forums to come up, I am posting the idea here.

This way when we host a game, we can check the player record for the players who want to play. If the rating is poor, will know not to let them in to the game.

To avoid abuse of this kind of system, limit entries to ONLY one per other player. Leave room for comment and rebutal.

Good idea or bad?

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Leaves too much room for abuse.

Leaving without telling about it to others may not be fair, but keep in mind, that we are all humans, and have real lives to take care of, which is more important than any of the games we may play.

Then again, i think you are mostly talking about players leaving when their luck takes a bad turn, and their empire starts to fall apart.

While staying in a game, that is already lost, is a noble and respectful act, it takes a certain kind of player.

Most gamers play to have fun. The ultimate goal of a game is to entertain. Fighting a losing war is not fun to most, and frankly, you cant force them to play against their will.

I think, you want losers to stay, so you can enjoy your victory, by crushing their empire planet by planet.

Thats kinda selfish, as you basically tell players to play a game that is not fun (for them) anymore, so that you can enjoy your game more.

Think about it for a while

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I for one have never quit a game, for me personally when I begin a game I have made a committment to stay with it no matter what happens. My games are about 1/2 I do well, and 1/2 I do badly. When things go badly I lose interest (which means my empire stays low), BUT I never quit. Eventually some aspect of the game develops and I get to act even though I am not a powerhouse. In one game I was at the bottom. In boredom I declared war on someone pushing me about. Because of the way the mod was setup even in Last place I had one of my best times fighting that war.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

As I see it, its not about people who quit because they are losing, but rather people who quit without telling anybody, and thus hold up the game.

If you are losing, and its not worth getting a replacement player, TELL YOUR GM! They can set your empire status to dead, and PBW won't have to wait for turns that never arrive.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I love games where people quit. Im not big on MP gaming and dont tend to do well at it so Im leary of joining them when Im learning a new game.

so I love to step into the shoes of the quitter. They often quit so soon. A major battle lost, or bad decision, or even one bad event, and its a setback that they dont feel like fighting to recover from it. By volunteering to take their place I get to be in MP games with a ready-made excuse. I didnt pick the empires settings. Im coming into someone elses foulup. Im considered a saviour because the player doesnt have to be turned AI. All I have to do is slightly better than him becoming AI for me to have "saved" the game for everyone, even if I lose badly. Its no surprise and no shame if I lose, a big surprise and major points if I win, and Im fully free to at least try to be a good game by doing something totally surprising.

I highly recommend "subbing" for a quitter to any new person who is debating MP

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Maybe its just me, but I've always enjoyed attempting to come back after almost certain defeat. It doesn't matter if I win or lose, its how long I can stay alive(because of this people tend to hate playing starcraft with me on big maps when I have one probe left running around building pylons in random places).

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

You'll probably like the small squad tactics map, and the "dying of the light" scenario I made, then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/nick/games/starcraftmaps/

DotL:
How long can you fend off an infinite horde of zerg? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

SST:
All mineral piles are reduced in size.
2 Gas is traded for 1 Mineral when you have extra gas.
(thus, infinite but very slowly collected, resources)
Relatively slow paced, but it does let you give personal attention to your guys and run tactics that wouldn't be possible in the typical "rush build and suicide attack" game.
So train up 3 or 4 units, send in the commando teams, capture territory, build gas collectors, and tremble in fear when the AI manages to collect enough minerals to build even a single battlecruiser http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

csebal, you have flicked scar tissue so I will rant a little. >>Rant on.<<

I have my own personal black list and I'm always looking to add more quitters to it. To quit without notice is unconscionable and shows zero respect for the other players. If you have time to quit the game, you have time to leave a note to the players... and saying "I don't feel like it" won't score any brownie points unless you never play again !

Your post almost caused me to add you to the list, but you didn't say you are a quitter, but that you understand their mindset, so, as with all unfamiliar players, you will get the benefit of the doubt. >>Rant off.<<

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Just to present the other side non-quitters can be annoying also. I was in a game once were I refused to quit and the winning player cussed at me and terminated the game. I had one active minefield in a nebula system so I refused to quit as "I had units still in the field" and my empire was still alive.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

That's just being pissy. With one minefield there is 0% chance of doing anything meaningful..and worse, minefields are completely computer controlled anyway so all your holding on did was slow down the game for the other player(s).

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

<font color="red"> Keep the language PG please. </font>

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I had a similar situation once. My empire was classed as dead but I still had a few cloaked ships. I moved behind the enemy lines and started to attack his undefended colonies. My ships were the Last survivers of my empire and were forced to become guerillas. Of course I didn't take into account that with no empire they ran out of maintenance. Is this fair or annoying? (the striking after dead I mean).

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Sorry about that I tend toward brevety in speech and in writing. Everything I said was the truth, but the situtation was I was the Last player in the game beside the winner. The Winning player knew I was teasing and only cussed to tease me right back. And I only continued to fight becaue it was funny in an absurd way. The winning player and are a good friends.
But quitting players are a fact of life we will all have to contend with and if you want to avoid that just request Grandpa Kim's seal of approval.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

The only times I've left games has been when something came up in RL. In each case I've informed the GM and even found replacement players in a couple of instances. In fact, I'm in one game where I told the others I have to leave about 3 months ago and I'm still there... waiting for a replacement as I've got a respectfully large empire and the mod doesn't support AI play very well.

I can agree with the frustration of a quitting player who does not inform anyone.

Some of the funnest games I've played have been a fighting retreat to zero. In one instance, my ship designs were vastly superior to my enemies (toot toot), but he had shear numbers. IIRC he needed to out-number me 5 to 1 to hope to defeat me in combat. Of course, I had put so much research into ship components to get that way that my planetary defense's were nearly nil... which is why I ended up in the situation I was. But man, I've never had so much fun losing before.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I wouldn't be apposed to having a like or said list posted somewhere for all to see. This 'Black List' would be a great guide to determine if one wants to play a game with someone. Might also force somepeople to correct their horrible ways. Maybe even give Ratings or something so that you really can determine how much of a loser the community views this person as....

Kana

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Depends. If you are the Last surviving enemy, doesn't make sense to continue a decided game, it's just plain annoying. Like insisting to continue the game with only 1 hidden mine left.
Otherwise, my style is similar: even if defeat is inevitable, do as much damage as possible to your most hated enemy, making it easier for his next enemy. I would never stop playing as long as I have a single ship left and the game is not otherwise decided. And suicide and guerilla operations are perfect instruments for the weak underdogs. I could meet the same player again in another game, and he might think twice about attacking me then, even if he was victorious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

In a multiplayer game, I always feel deprived if I attack someone and he drops out after the first assault. Not because I like to play cat-and-mice games with someone who has no chance. But if there still is a chance to destroy some the invading fleets and to substantially stall the advance, dropping out makes it way too easy to collect the booty fast while already advancing to the next war with the same fleets. And I rather like a hard-won victory than one that was nearly handed to me on a silver plate.

On a second thought, Randallw, do not take this gibberish of resisting to the end seriously for NGC4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Hard to do that when reading Gozra's post. Forcing someone with a big empire to spend hour upon hour of micromanagement just to get a cheap chuckle is just sick.

Goz: You made my personal never play list.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Just my 2 cents...

There are more ways to have fun in a game even if you are loosing. Doesn't mean you have to annoy everyone and draw it out by hiding a cloaked ship somewhere, but loosing one fleet or an important sector does not mean you can't fight back and have a good time. That is what adds spice to the game, fighting back from unsurmountable odds.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Hmm, I didn't really mean to open a can of worms here. My own personal choice is to play on till I can do no real damage to my opponent. Then I ask the owner to "finish" my empire. I like to keep playing because I always seem to learn more in a loss than in a win, in fact, a win makes me cocky and everyone likes to whack a cocky SOB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

My blacklist is not for public consumption but I may let individuals see it if they ask, and only if they vow not to pass it along.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I learned a long time ago, getting my butt kicked in chess tourneys, that the honorable thing to do was resign when the game ending was obvious. Even then, I saw people who were obviously going to lose sit there and make the opponent sit there while his clock ran down. To me, that's the SE4 equivalent of not submitting a turn and forcing everyone else to "watch your clock run down".

I know RL pops up sometimes (Nodachi and Gecko come to mind) but it's also obvious that RL wasn't the problem when you see the same guy active in another game.

I don't like quitters like that but I try to take them in stride. No point in "having a cow" as Bart would say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I wasn't the Last, I stayed on for as long as possible to try and help my long time partner.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Yes some people drop out way to fast, if you lose one battle and have no ships left in the sector, your opponent may always decide to do untactical things, like not attack your planets but just go back for resupply or have a retrofit party somewhere. Not all is lost if you loose a fleet.

But if a player quits, and someone takes over his empire a change of leadership can be very refreshing. I have taken over a game of the crushed player born2fly who was in 10th place, with two glassed homeworlds and only had 7 ships or so.
Now the empire is in 4th place with over 300 battleships, and his previous enemies have been neutralized.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Brevity has bitten me again. This is what happened The Winner killed my Last ship and planet. I called him up on the phone to congratulate him but I teased him a bit first and said the game indicated I still had units in the field. He said we can keep playing if I wanted. Then I told him it was a minefield in a nebula system then in exasperation he cussed and said I am not continuing for that. We laughed and started a new game. I always approach these forums with a bit of humor. How ever I have been accused of having very dry Humor. And I have been told by a friend once that I am funny but you have to able to think about what I say in order to understand my humor. I am disappointed I made your list Primitive.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I don't have much to say except that I stopped playing PBW when I realized I was so unreliable.
I think others should reconize thier own nature and do the same.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Primative.

I am disappointed Gozra made your list as well.

Gozra is a good PBW player to have in a game.

I also have a Do-Not-Join list and another list of Players who i think are great PBW players.



As for setting this up on PBW.

That will not happen. PBW has made it a few years now without a rating system. The current system will not have this functionality added.

The new PBW system. Perhaps it can be looked at from an autogenerated point of view. But again it still does not explain everything.

I feel it is better for players to keep their own opinions of players. And if some one joins a game who you feel is not a good pbw player then inform the game admin. They can chat one on one with the player in question and decide if they wish to give the benifit of the doubt to the said player. Or inform them that they do not want them in their game. I have seen a few emails that go along the lines of " I really would like to play in this game but player ****** is known to drop out without notice. "

Then I look at who sent it and decide... Hmm... who whould be better in my game.... send off a few emails. And make a choice.

Too me that is the best system.

P.S. G-Kim is a good player,

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I have seen couple of players so far I am not willing to play anymore. Reason: not submitting turns and/or breaking home rules. Also players who quit (not informing anyway) after the first loss get into my list. However, I am happy to inform that there is not many names http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

I also agree that you learn more when losing that when winning.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

I'm in a game, as a long-time replacement player, that is no longer fun. I have kept playing, but it's really useless. One player has a much better racial setup than everyone else and is really powerful. He could easily eliminate my empire, but instead chooses to park large fleets on the suns in my systems and let my planets riot.

There are only four empires left, and the combination of the weaker three would not be strong enough to win the fight. I'm ready to declare a winner and leave the game, but the leader seems to want a different type of ending.

What would you do in this case??

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

inform the game owner and the other players. and declare that player the winner. People tend to forget that you can win a game without taking out everything around you.

If the game owner says fight it out then i would tell them to mark my empire dead so the computer can take over.

If they refuse. I would leave.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

If surrender is permitted, that is another way to say, "OK, you won. I surrendered." and leave the game without being a quitter. Just my take on it.

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

Of course you could organize a Quitters PBW game and invite everyone who's put their opinion out on this topic and slug it out for honor.

Wildcard [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon46.gif[/img]

(speaking of dry humor)

Re: PBW - Loosers Who Quit
 

There is a related concept that I would also add to this thread, that I discovered the hard way.

In some games, when RL intrudes, a player will want to quit. That's fine, of course. But if done poorly, can lead to problems.

I was in one game where I was in such a situation - I was the #2 empire due to the surrender of another empire to me a bit before. The war that had resulted in that surrender was between myself and a number of allies (they did the hard work, and I just got smacked around) -- but the player surrendered to me not them. So, some turns go by, and RL is intruding on my gaming, and so I decided to get out of the game.

From the beginnging of the game my empire had cooperated closely with another empire, we were very close allies, and so forth. And, I was number two, and they were number, like, Last. So, when it came time for me to get out of the game, I thought a lot about it and I thought that if I were to merge my empire with theirs it would make sense from a roleplaying, historical, and strategic point of view.

Note to all: what you may think is perfectly clear from your perspective can be perceived very differently by other players.

When I did this, a couple players raised holy h*ll, got angry, and there were bad feelings. I put the game on hold, backed off my idea, and tried to explain my reasoning, but, really, my reasoning wasn't the problem, it was, I think, more the WAY in which I did it. In retrospect I should either have just opened up the empire for the AI or a replacement player, or slowly and moderately explained why I thought it was a good idea to merge the empires. After a while of listening to others get angry at me, I got defensive and p*ssy, and so I went ahead with my original plan and merged my empire with my ally and got out of the game.

I have always prided myself on my "honourable" approach to gaming - I won't backstab, break my word, start wars without cause, etc...and so when this happened I was very much taken by surprise by people's anger . The point being: even getting out of a game can go wrong if it is done poorly, which happened in this case.

In the end, I think it all worked out, since it gave the remaining players a chance to go to war and take over my former empire, which they had probably wanted to do for a while, but my point remains: quitting can be a touchy business, and it is better to not assume your reasons will sit well with others. Good rule of thumb is to not merge empires, even if it makes sense from your perspective.

Alarik