Map Suggestions?
 

I'm looking to startup another newbie/intermediate game in the next day or two, and I'd like some suggestions on which map to use. To date, I've started playing in 2 mp games on Karan, which seems good, but I'd like to run on something larger. Orania is perfectly acceptable, but it bugs me a little to play on a donut - are there any maps out there that have just horizontal wraparound?

Cradle of Dominions or Zen's Cradle seem like good candidates - does anyone have any opinions on one vs. the other? Are there any other large maps that have been extensively tested for MP?

I'm interested in supporting 10+ players, and I'd like to err on the side of having too much space between players, rather than too little - so any comments on how many players a given map can handle would be appreciated.


TIA,

Thufir

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

My advice is to not pick large or huge maps for newbie games. You tend to learn the basics faster on smaller maps, and that's what new players need. Besides, the amount of MM you'll have to cope with after 30-40 turns tends to increase exponentially with the map size, and heavy MM is what turns newbies away from Dominions before anything else - so avoid it at all costs.

Make a copy of orania.map as orania_nowrap.map, edit orania_nowrap.map, remove the #wraparound line, and change the map title to something meaningful, eg:

#dom2title Orania (no wraparound)

Ringwold. You can also edit the Orania map file and remove the #neighbours clauses that connect North to South.

Inland seems popular for advanced/expert games - not too big, even playing field for everyone because of the wraparound and rather uniform layout. Although it's not really suited if both Atlantis and R'lyeh are in.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Just to be nitpicky: Orania is a ball(sphere), where a horziontal-only wraparound map yields a donut (torus)...

EDIT: I am wrong in what I have written above and I damn well knew it! Orania and other wrap-around maps can be projetced on a torus. Consider a straight horizontal line like earth equator (which in fact is circle): If you move it upwards, that line decreases in length until it reduces to a point at the north pole. This is not what we encounter on a torus and neither on orania. A great circle on orania does not change its length when shifting it upwards or downwards.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Ringworld is nice, would definitely give new players lessons in strategic placement of castles/temples, trying to gain choke points, cutting off those pesky bolts in which nations can come in from far away.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Sorry, but you're wrong. A flat map that connects its West to its East and its North to its South is topologically equivalent to a torus, not a sphere.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Just to be nitpicky: The original poster is correct. Horizontal-only wraparound gives a cylinder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I too would prefer more cylindrical maps. Those donuts are not very intuitive IMO.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Thanks for the info Mr. Fel, this helps!

Maybe you're right - I guess I just love huge, complex games, and have always been willing to put up with the MM, even when first learning a game. But then again, maybe I am not a representative newbie.

The thing I was thinking was to setup a 14+ player game, and by map description, it seemed that Orania and Zen's Cradle were the likely candidates.


Is there any reason Inland would be unsuitable for newbies?
In the ingame description Inland says it'll handle 10-15 players - does it still provide a good game at 14/15 players? Also, with 5 water provinces it would seem advisable not to include either Atlantis or R'lyeh - do players actually go for either of those on Inland?


Thanks for the tip - I'll try this out on Orania, sp.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Well, on Hard_Slog one player picked R`lyeh, he even got what I'd consider a not-too-bad starting position (in the bigger sea, with a double VP province in it), he went AI though =P
Also, if you plan on a newbie game, make sure to keep a slot for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

Well, one day, once I become an expert Dom2 player (and what does that usually take people - a year or two? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) I may go into the map creation business. It'd be nice to make a few cylindrical maps complete with bigger provinces on top and bottom to approximate a sphere.

It'd also be nice to have more pretty maps that are also good for MP. The Faerun map is gorgeous, and I love playing SP on it, but so much of what makes it great for SP makes it bad for MP. Maybe Edi's new map resolves that conflict, but I suspect that's a difficult issue to work out. Karan is nice to look at, but the lack of any wraparound can work out to screw your starting position.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

That sounds interesting - has anyone played Ringworld in MP? I'd hate to be first to try it out in MP, this being a newbie game and all.

How many players will Ringworld accomodate?

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

None that I can see.

Yes. 15 players on Inland means you can expect the closest enemy capital to be ~3 provinces from yours, while still being guaranteed some room to expand because of the way provinces are laid out (~10 provinces, say). IMO that's the 'ideal' setting to teach a newbie the basics: possible early confrontation with another nation while magic is still underdevelopped, and so on.

Inland is OK for 0 or 1 underwater nation. Better pick another map if you have both R'lyeh and Atlantis.

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

That french map on the Illwinter map page is very pretty! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

By all means! We're now open for business, and you're certainly welcome to join us - here's the thread:
http://forum.shrapnegames.com/showth...o=&fpart=1

Re: Map Suggestions?
 

I feel that its easiest to not discuss maps in terms of their overall province numbers. Talk about province-per-player. Do you feel that a game is best when everyone can take the provinces around their castle, and then have to prepare for war? Or would you rather some wilderness between players. The more wilderness there is, the more it affects the play of some nations.

Here is part of a page called "Map Thoughts" on www.dom2minions.com
<font color="blue">
For a player to capture all of the provinces around his castle as a buffer and for resources, we are probably looking at.. 5? There are 17 nations (at this time) so 5*17 would be 85 provinces. Actually, if you fairly consider the land and water nations then the best map should probably be 15*5 or 75 land provinces, and 2*5 or 10 water provinces, to a total of 85.</font>

Down near the end it has some recommended terms ...<font color="blue">
SMALL 5 each, or 85 total provinces. Best done as 75 land and 10 water.
MEDIUM 10 each, or 170 total provinces. Best done as 150 land and 20 water.
LARGE 15 each, or 255 total provinces. Best done as 225 land and 30 water.
HUGE 20 each, or 340 total provinces. Best done as 300 land and 40 water.
EPIC 25 or more each, maybe to the maximum 500 total provinces. Something like 450 land and 50 water.
</font>

And it has links to various places you can get randomly generated maps. Kindof ugly ones but playable. They are done to fill in the gaps if people want to play a new map of a certain size. Especially the really large ones.

Of course these sizes are all figured to allow for all 17 nations to play at once. For fewer players, consider the math rather than the sizes. For only 10 nations a small map will play like a medium sized game. There is alot more discussion on the "Map Thoughts" page

EDITED: Hmmmm not the best batch of maps today. But tomorrow there will be a whole new batch. Or if you want me to I can kick off the generator to randomize them again.