What is Dominions II?
 

I know what Dominions II is. Probably everyone on this board knows. But if you were asked this question, what would you answer?

I browsed the forums of Home of the Underdogs and someone was asking for the name of this game which had 'realms like lizards and afrikaans and rome' and in which you had 'idol' and magic and things... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif He got his answer, but I would have wanted to send there a short reply telling what Dominions II was. I wasn't able to register in the site, however. HotU have heavy traffic, and I were too impatient to wait.

Know that I have though of it I have realised that I couldn't have given a good answer. Dominions II *does* look like a mix of Risk and Chess and Master of Magic, but it is more. Master of Magic played made for Risk instead of Civilization comes closer, but is still far as only the look of maps comes from Risk. This is the best I can manage:

Chess with 17 sides as different as those in MoM and played on a Risk board is about as good as I can manage.

What is your try?

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Definitely Risk with simultaneous move capability. While Dom 2 is far, far more complex than Risk, the basic underlying TBS game structure is identical.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Try one of the following:

• Dom 2 is what AoW would like to be when (if ever) it grows up? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
• Dom 2 is the next best thing to having a MoM 2?
• It's the best fantasy-based computer strategy game.
• It's something you should be addicted to also ...

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

There has been a thread about Dominions I some time ago at these Boards, and possibly others since then. But yes, there are easier things than describing Dominions.

Hmm... A game where the focus is the ascension to Godhood. Leading one of the seventeen nations offered by the game, your Pretender will attempt to further her religious dominion and to destroy any opponent, both physically and psychically (is that a word?). Wield tremendous spells able to wreak havoc, marshall a host of warriors dedicated to your cause, attempt to outmanoeuver the enemy or summon champions and equip them with state-of-the-art magic items; the possibilities to reach your goals are virtually endless. Oops, that was an ad rather than an actual description.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I think Arryn has some good replies.

- MoM taken to the next level
- best fantasy TBS currently available
- large-scale AoW (AoW = fighting for a province, Dom2 = fighting for a world)

You might also try comparisons to Fantasy General, but the two games are very different. (Like comparing Panzer General to Hearts of Iron). Actualy, I think Victoria or Europa Universalis could be compared to Dom2. They are RTS, but you can pause and slow down the game enough to basically make them turn-based.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

A fantasy/magic Empire strategy game with enough variables that everyone can actually develop tactics/strategies/playing-styles that are completely their own. Anyone who is tired of getting a new game every month should DEFINETLY a least download and try the free demo. IF (notice the emphasis on IF) you can get hooked by the demo, then the price of the full game is absolutely worth it because it WILL live on your computer far longer than any game of euqal amount.

WARNING: this game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about Dominions strategies while operating heavy machinery. The demo has built-in protections such as turn limits which should not be bypassed. They are for your health as much as for monetary reasons. Do not begin on the full Version without first making arrangments for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immeadiately (Do NOT show him the game!)

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I'd hate to compare Dom to Hoi (or any of Paradox's EU-engined games). IW has coded a by far better AI than the lame excuse for AI that EU/HoI/Vicky have.

The provincial aspects / world conquest do vaguely resemble Risk, but that's about as far as that analogy can go, and it's pushing it as is. You have a broader and deeper variety of units than the Warlords or AoW series, but lack the depth of hero development of those games. OTOH, Dom allows you to go into more detail in equipping your "heroes" (commanders), so it's a different sort of "development", and more or less balances out not having a real system for user-selected hero skills and their improvement. Pretenders are somewhat similar to your mage in MoM, but the feel is different. Dominion push (vaguely) resembles something from Populous.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I think the most distinguishing* feature of Dom2 for me is the combination of turn-based and simultaneous movement, so I would say something like:

A complex turn-based fantasy strategy game, which allows fast gameplay due to simultaneous movement.

It's more like a Real Time Strategy game where you have plenty of time to think through your moves and where you do not need quick reaction capabilities...

----
(* I think that WarlordsIII became popular because it allowed simultaneous movement in multiplayer, thus allowing quick Online games. However, this also required fast reaction and so was rather RTS than turn-based, wheras PBEM games were never ending at all...)

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Oh, btw, this leads me to a feature request - not for myself, but i guess this could increase the popularity of the game:

The screen should show a timer somewhere and hit end turn automatically if the time is up. (For network games only.)

In this way, one could settle for blitz-matches...

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

The battle system with its not controlable fighting sequences remind me of some console strategy games like ogre battle or the older warsong.

Indeed I would like to see closeups of the commanders faces and some statements before battle, to give your units more personality (like an Abysian Salamander with fiery eyes "I'll burn you to cinders", or an charging ulmish knight commander "For [enter god name here]".

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Thanks - you've just given me my next pretender's name: Aiur.

CC

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Dominions II is a very large and extremely well-balanced turn-based strategy game on a province level, set in a fantasy world based in real world mythologies.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Dominion2 is a turn based 4x strategy game in a fantasy milieu with magic research replacing the usual technological research. It has a simple core system with massive emergent complexity & depth. The races are strongly characterised & draw from mythology & mythologised history rather than the usual fantasy stereotypes. While it is a very good game it is poor software.

Pickles

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Why is it poor software? Apart from the message interface, which needs improving, the software is easy to use and nice to look at. It also does what it says on the tin. What more do you want?

CC

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

The whole message thing is very poor. The graphics are indifferent I do not find them nice to look at but they are not offensive. The layout is pretty clear & good in that respect. I am perfectly happy with them but they are also massively demanding on hardware - which for graphics of that quality makes it bad software.
The interface in general is not very good. It is not consistent & it can be hard to find units or provinces sometimes. Micro could probably be reduced too though is somewhat a game issue rather than an interface one.
Similary spell use in battles.

Pickles

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Well the game is good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As to things like graphics and interface its not too different than any game which runs on so many platforms.

And the devs are here so if you have specific suggestions feel free to mention them. If they arent quick fixes then it might wait for Dom3 or something like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But thats OK. The patches tend to be pretty full. Im not sure that anything is in need of Johan spending full time so that only 1 major change is made in one patch. Id rather see all the little tweaks and surprises.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Dom2 is a great game but there are many UI problems and aesthetics & graphics quality are poor.

* Unable to use hotkeys to scroll popup lists (forced to use mouse) and unable to sort on F1 nation screen (like you can do in the Civ series).

* Right-click on province instead of left-click is unintuitive but not too bad once you get used to it.

* Random map generator, though I'm working on one myself and I know there exists a random map generator. The maps that come with the game arn't all that great IMV. Still, a superior approach would be one built into the game and "generated on the fly".

* Better font - yeah, it's probably just personal taste & all.

* Need to incorporate a built-in help facility - Dom-o-pedia or something to display the battle mechanics and other stuff (though some stuff like spells are accessable...).

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I do not know - I only play on one platform & it is far worse than any other interface from recent times. This is the problem really - I am far less a computer geek than most people here (I reserve my geekiness exclusively for games) & I am used to good windows interfaces. I would rather the game was produced slickly for one platform only (& penetrated the mass market) but this seems unlikely...


I think most of my issues are unpatchable eg why is the thing so resource intensive? Also everyone knows how poor the in game message system is both as a relay of ingame info & as a inter player messager.

It would be nice if dom3, if there is one, was rebuilt from the bottom up somewhat to address this sort of issue.

This is not really a criticism of the developers BTW. They are only 2 and do most of the truly important stuff well meanwhile the whole thing has an amateurish feel to it.

Pickles

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

There are slick interfaces available for any system. Unfortunately if its for 4 different systems then its hard to find common ground. Not much good to have buttons doing things on one that cant be done on the others.

No not too likely. But isnt it nice that they compiled a Windows Version? (it was made on linux)

The same thing I think. Less resource intensive games on Windows let the windows dll's take care of alot of the overhead. That way each program isnt loading and using modules for common things like how to draw the screens or how to display fonts. But everything has its pros and cons. Not going that route allows it to make the best use of linux abilities for things like hosting games.

Thats kindof standard for a PbEM game. Its easier for people doing blitz games to use voip, or irc, or emails than to have the game put something like that into it. Thats kindof the other side of the resource thing.

Most of the best strategy games do. No game will cover everyones preferences. Arguers on the other side of "has an amateurish feel to it" might word it as "will not appeal to the xbox set" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Its definetly a niche market. Whether or not they would do better continuing up the path of "deep and well balanced strategy play" or do better trying to jump in the pool with all of the shelfware stuff is a debate between them and their publisher.

I dont want to seem too defensive. Its just that Ive already gotten used to the interface. Except for little fast improvements to make it easier for new players, I tend to be against alot of time spent on the UI. Id rather time was spent on the AI but its in the same boat as the UI. Not really prime target for the game.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

No one is complaining that the window borders look funny. None of the UI issues that are being brought up have anything to do with what platform the game is running on. I could give a list but I don't want to turn this thread into a rant session http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Whatever is going on to make Dom2 more resource intensive than usual doesn't have anything to do with module loading overhead. But whatever the reason, it hardly matters. Do I really need my fire darts to run at 60 FPS?

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Well he mentioned keypresses. I think that the keypresses used originally were the ones that would work standard across windows, mac, linux and solaris. As it is they are already sliding into ones which dont carry over well into all of the platforms which slows down getting patches and new demos done.

Its that Dominions does not load modules. They do everything themselves rather than use things already loaded such as screen-write API's or optimized for windows such as DirectX. Most FPS problems are graphic card problems. I think from not making best use of drivers for the cards.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Have you seen Unreal Tournament 2004? (Linux, Mac, and windows). Also thing Worldforge puts out. Anyway, in these openGL days, cross platform and cool graphics are no longer impossible. However, cool graphics takes lots, lots and lots of time, which a 2 x 0.5 man team does not have. And anyways, I would rather have more game play than graphics for something like this. E.g, one obvious thing that is missing is terrain, instead of the X x Y battlefield.

Don't get me wrong --- Dominions is one of the best closed-source games out there. A tremendous effort for two people --- I am very impressed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Eh.. Last I check dom used openGL (and maybe SDL, though I don't know), which is sortof DirectX, made right this time. There should be no performance hit for this. Probably, the code just needs a bit of optimization, that's all. And lots of small objects has always been the death of 3D rendering system (such as openGL (and Direct3D)).

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I dont think it is: I am running it on a 600Mhz Athlon machine with a GeForce2MX under Windows, which is considered pretty old and unusable for contemporary games by most of my friends, yet I am comfortably running Dom2 with high-quality graphic settings (not highest, but high)...

I guess the problem lies that most systems are not equipped with sensible OpenGL drivers. The game was unplayable-slow on my 1,8GHz Intel Laptop with ATI Radeon graphics, until I installed some freeware-third-party-drivers which were mentioned in this forum somewhere. Now it runs smoothly under the highest settings under windows! I really just changed the driver... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Unfortunately, I didnt manage to install any suitable drivers under Linux to play Dom2, so I need to reboot all the time: I am doing my work with Linux and only use Windows on the Laptop for games, not that I am currently playing anything else than Dom2...this is really odd considering that the game was written under/for Linux!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

I can concur with you Chazar: my old computer worked very well with Dominions II (I had virtually the same configuration, although it was a Duron 700mhz rather than a 600 mhz Athlon; your CPU was likely a tad bit quicker, but not by much), and my newer computer hated Dominions II with a passion until the drivers were seriously updated. My graphic card was also an ATI Radeon, so the problem seems to be here.

Now with adequate drivers the game runs very well, but there was no real problem with my previous configuration either (even with other programmes running in the background). So I would be more willing to put the blame on drivers and a lack of optimisation in this field rather than on Illwinter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

There is an issue with DOM2, SDL, OpenGL and ATI cards:

No matter what system you have, what screen resolution you're running, you'll get either 8,15 or 32(?) fpm.
But it is NOT over-use of ressources, it's a programming glitch in one of the sub-systems (not necessarily even in DOM itself).
E.g. it runs with 25+fpm on my P3/400 (G2Ti) and only with 15 fpm at work (D1800/Rad7000).

Sadly, it looks like the problem is just to "sophisticated" for the developer(s) to figure out - remember, we're talking a part-time hobby programmer here.

And, at Last, I really like the interface.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

fpm? Frames per minute? Now THAT would be a "glitch" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

The problem is unlikely to be addressed by ATI though. The majority of other games do not have that problem, and the Dom2 community is too small to have an impact on their driver development. Although, I heard they almost rewrote their OpenGL implementation for the 4.9 Cats. Maybe THEN my X800 will give me more than 16 fps during battles.

The interface is ok. Right click or left click doesn't matter you get used to it. The messaging system IMO is the part of the GUI that needs fixing. I'd even propose collecting money from the community to "sponsor" their programming time to rewrite it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Do we even need to do that? Can't they just refer to an EDITOR environment variable, and fire it up for writing Messages? Then you can use whatever you want - Notepad, vi, whatever. Then the only recoding is to let you see Messages you've written this turn, re-edit them etc.

CC

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Of course, the ability to just copy'n'paste from an external editor would be enough for the editign part.

Re-Editing sent Messages isn't even necessary. The messenger is on its way, can't call him back. That is something I can live with.

What really is needed in the system is instead of choosing ALL nation or ONE nation as the recipient, place a checkbox in front of the nations name, so you can select multiple nations as the recipients.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

Sure, but what are seeking arrows for then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Apart from that, I think that the GUI needs some improvement (Why cant I just change command number 3 for that commander? Why do I have do delete the whole production queue to change the first unit? Why cant I search for commanders by names? etc.) BUT I am sure that GUI designing is pretty hard anyway!

On the other hand especially that bloody messenging system needs improvement. I dont believe in the external messenging excuse: True, why should one reinvent something established like messenging? Because its kills athmosphere as I wrote in another thread: Writing in character is much easier inside the game...

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

There is an issue with OpenGL and ATI cards, Dom2 is not the first and is not the Last game that works poorly on ATI, actually, is there any OpenGL game that works well on ATI? I believe there were some non-ATI OpenGL ATI drivers around, which were working better than original ones.

Re: What is Dominions II?
 

The up/down arrows are already used in other portions of the interface, so it's not that the keypresses aren't standard across the platforms. (And yes, I've programmed X for many years on *nixes, and know what a PITA many of the keys are.) But while it's possible to scroll through commanders, and to scroll the map, it isn't possible to scroll through the spells in the research screen, or the spell scripting screen, or through the commanders in the troop deployment screen.

The entire spell list section - having the spells in a sane order has nothing to do with the multiple platforms. But as Sheap said, we don't want to turn this thread into a rant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif