Mephisto
 

Why the censorship Mephisto ? New forum rules or what ?

If so; Good bye everybody. It's been fun.

Re: Mephisto
 

Did not Richard resolve the OT threads issue by stating that Shrapnel's policy on them had not changed, and would not be changing?

Re: Mephisto
 

It's technically not censorship, since the thread hasn't been locked or deleted. It's simply been moved to a "free speech zone". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Still a large change of policy...

Re: Mephisto
 

Not really. Just a change in location.

Re: Mephisto
 

LOL, more like a view-free zone.

It's kinda ironic that a tread taking up minor details like freedom should be censored.

Anyway, I liked the mix of Posts in the forum. Some game related, some pure fun and some serious. Taking away the serious threads makes this forum much less interesting. If someone is bored of a topic, just skip reading it. Easy as a Drushoka filly during mating season http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Yes really. It is a radical change from the policy of leaving OT threads where they were created and not interfering (unless things go sour), irregardless of the number of times such a topic was discussed in the past (Iraq war threads, anyone?).

The thread creator did not want to discuss the issue with the small number of Users that visit the Shrapnel General Category, but with the people that visit the SE4 Category. In the past, such wishes were respected.

Re: Mephisto
 

It's not a problem for me. Most OT threads belong in a general Category anyways - and on 99% of forums they are.

Re: Mephisto
 

The problem with that is that by the very nature of these forums, each Category tends to be an entirely separate community... Often, people only wish to discuss an issue with members of a particular community, not everyone that browses Shrapnel Intel Forums. Most people just set a particular Category as their bookmark, and skip the rest of the forums entirely. This is why the Shrapnel General Category is very rarely used...

Re: Mephisto
 

That's likely true Fyron...

I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with them wanting to move true OT threads to a general forum. I'd do the same if I had a set of forums. I think Shrapnel was just lax about it in the past, and if they want to keep on top of it more now then that's their perogitive.

If those topics interested you, just drop by the general forum from time to time.

Re: Mephisto
 

Seems like nobody gets my point here (maybe I need to work a bit on my communication skills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

If Shrapnel wants an off-topic free forum, thats their prerogative. It will be boring, and maybe a bit suicidal as many of the regular contributors (like me) won't bother to check in very often. But it's their choice.

A censored forum however, is different. Even if posting something political on a game forum is not a big issue, it has become an integral part of the freedoms I value.

So, Please.
Could any Shrapnel personel or one of the Moderators answer this simple question: Is the moving of the election thread a glitch, or is this a policy decission ?

And if its a glitch, please move it back.

Re: Mephisto
 

It's neither a glitch or a firm policy decision. There's not a science to it. We don't have a codified policy stating this kind of thread is ok, and that kind of thread is not. As all of you know there has been much discussion back and forth on the topic. No general agreement has been reached, even among the Moderators. So basically we are just handling things on a thread by thread basis. The same thread might not get moved at another time, even by the same moderator.

Re: Mephisto
 

That is a rather poor way to run a forum... leads people to suspect favoritism and other such nasty things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Well, I prefer that the OT threads stay in the SEIV area because I rarely read the General forum.

Re: Mephisto
 

I don't think Shrapnel wants an OT-free forum or is attempting to implement any sort of censure - I think OTs in re: to space, aliens, or along other general themes of the game are completely fine for this forum.

Perhaps OT threads like those to do with politics, computer items not connected to se4 etc, would be the kind of topics better suited to the general forum.

But of course, we've become so used to this forum being our one-stop shop - can we ever change? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Why is this coming up again?
And why is it that everytime someone tries to turn it into a "no OT's allowed" when that was never said? As if it has to be an "all or none" decision.

The shrapnel general forums were created for a purpose. Any forum where there are too many OT threads or threads which seem to shift the mood of the forum off of its purpose, the Moderators have the capability to delete the thread (rarely ever happened), delete some Posts (still very few in any of the forums), lock it, or move it to the general subject area. SEIV has had very little ever done in this area and what was done was the least of these.

BTW comments that "I rarely ever visit the other forums" or the shrapnel front page doesnt really help your case any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Because the first ever OT thread was forcibly moved out of this forum Category.

And they were never used for that purpose, and Shrapnel has _always_ been of the position that OT threads don't need to be moved anywhere.

There are not many OT threads in this forum right now, so the suggestion that the thread was moved due to too many OT threads is not applicable.

That is a perfectly valid case. There is no reason to visit the rest of the forums if you only play one game published by Shrapnel.

Re: Mephisto
 

Religion and politics...it seems we must always talk about both at periodic intervals. I'm not saying this is a bad thing; the opposite actually. It helps us all re-evaluate our positions every once in a while, and prevents us from becoming set in our ways, and open to new thoughts and ideas.

What's the point of this? Well, I know the people who frequently visit the SEIV forum fairly well, and for the vast majority, I value their opinions. I do not know the entire Shrapnel Forum community in the same way. Therefore, if I start an OT thread in the SEIV forum, I am intending that thread to be read, and commented on by the patrons of the SEIV forum. I do not need or desire the opinions of the rest of the community.

Basically, if I wanted to know the opinion of all the forumers in the entire Forum, I would start a thread in the General forum. But really, we don't go overboard on the OT, therefore, what's the harm? It may not be SEIV related, and it definitely is Shrapnel's perogative to move, delete, etc threads, but in the end it would lead to a decline in forum traffic, and an overall blow to the SEIV community.

My opinion only, take it as you will.

Re: Mephisto
 

But the subject was covered.

Interesting viewpoint. But thats kindof based on lack of action rather than "position" isnt it? Are you feeling that it should be a "position" of Shrapnel that a thread cannot be moved from a game forum to the general forum?

That is a perfectly valid case. There is no reason to visit the rest of the forums if you only play one game published by Shrapnel.

[/quote]

Not from your point of view. But on many sites that does tend to lead to popup ads, banners, losing forum territory to side wings for links to other things on the site, or killing the ability to go directory to a forum without going to the main page first.

Re: Mephisto
 

Yes, with Richard stating that there would be _no_ change regarding policy towards OT threads.

The fact that on many occasions in the past Richard has stated as much helps out... But, lack of a certain action for a 3+ year period is a good indicator of position on that action... Especially when the ability to take that action comes up frequently.

Yes. See earlier post about specific communities, as well as Renegade13's post prior to yours.

This is not many sites. This is Shrapnel. It is not like many other sites, and it should never be like such sites. What is your point?

Forcing Users to view the main forum page is pointless, and only harms the Users. There is no possible benefit that can not be emulated by critical announcements appearing at the top of every page or posted in all forums as is done now.

Re: Mephisto
 

It used to be that "Religion, Politics, and Sex are not acceptable subjects for polite company". Seriously, that was an etiquette rule because they tended to be more automatic argument than friendly debate. Of course now that sex is OK to talk about I think the new Version of the rule has become "Religion, Politics, and Operating Systems are not acceptable subjects for polite company".

Re: Mephisto
 

Very good points Primitive. I bump your post in the hope that we see an answer....

Re: Mephisto
 

Hmm, ya. There have been tons of heated OT discussions on this forum before, including politics, and I don't remember any being moved out. It didn't really seem to be a problem to me, though was there not recently some mention by some people about wanting to tone down the current Iraq/election topics, or at least keep them in one thread?

It is a good point though that there is a community in here in the SE4 forum, and we talk OT and generally enjoy it, even the heated and political bits, and few of us look at the general topics more than very very rarely, so personally unless something is getting out of control, I'd rather just have the OT stay here.

PvK

Re: Mephisto
 

I don't come to this forum for technical talk, although I do participate if nobody or very few people have answered and I can contribute something(Aside from scattering funny remarks here and there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ), so, if all the general threads where moved to the general forum, I would probably eventually drift over there. And I probably would stop checking the seiv forums.

I really don't know if moving the general threads to the general section would have a long-tern bad effect, but I do know it would generate short-term complaints, as already seen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But, there's two important points: Why change at all? This works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Second, a firm policy is allways needed. Prevents confusion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Hi all!
I’m sorry if I have troubled you by moving the thread to the general discussion area. Since there is a “Ghost” left in the SEIV forum I never thought this would create such an uproar as everybody is just a click away from the discussion. Ah well, next time I remember.
About censorship: It was never intended as any sort of censorship in any way. Feel free to post everything you want as long as it is kept civil.

Re: Mephisto
 

Who keeps painting these asteriods black?

Hmm...Us? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

About different forums: there have been never any complains that SEIV:Data/Sound/Graphic and SEIV:AIRaces/ShipSets forums are located in different section. With upload feature working now, you have to check 2 forums, if you're really interested in se4 subjects of course.

About OTs: some of them funny or interesting, some of them not (most of them for me). They make this forum more humanistic and live, but I won't miss them (usually I have enough OT debates with my friends, but no se4 related discussions in RL, that's the reason).

PS: you can try to workaround this policy rule by making tread "PBW Galactic Elections 2404: King Bush vs Cancellor Kerry" and appeal to the fact that subjuct is directly related to SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Most of the time that someone Posts a file in the downloads section, they make an appropriate post in this forum as well, so that people will know about the new file available...

Re: Mephisto
 

I already answered it. No one ever said "Do not post OT" and no one ever said "we will censor opinions".

We always said that occassional, interesting, (friendly) OTs are what make a community worth visiting.

This has always been the SEIV forum and the Shrapnel.General has always been the "discuss other subjects here" forum.

We always said that some subjects will be deleted but more in the area of their tone or legality than for subject matter. Dont confuse the actions for one reason to reflect on the other.

We also said that a moderator can moderate forums with the ability to delete, edit, lock, or move a thread (with a recommendation that moving a thread is best).

From the looks of the thread that was moved I almost got the impression that it was moved to allow it to become a more heated discussion than OTs tend to be in SEIV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Mephisto, GP
Thanks for clearifying. Again, could you please move the thread back where it belong.

Sorry to keep clubbing this. I know this is just a small freedom, but unlike most US citizens (Kudos to Fyron for sticking up) I am willing to fight to keep all my freedoms. Man, this Bush guy got you seriously whipped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

you mean that there is other forums in shrapnel beyond the SE4 forum?

wow! what a concept!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Primitive, the moving was a one way thing as I'm only moderator in this forum, not in General. Now that the community has washed my head clean can we just let it stay at Shrapnel General - just this one thread? It really won't hurt, I promise! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

But it do hurt, inside http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Sorry Meph, I didn't realise the technical difficulties.

Re: Mephisto
 

Its gotten rather flamey. I dont know why you would want it back in SEIV.

Freedoms? You mean like one of the "Internet Constitutions"? http://com1.runboard.com/bmessageboa...e.fmainchat.t1
Im afraid that document has not been ratified by virtual nation known as Shrapnel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Oh, come on! You are a big, though primitive! Just this one time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Mephisto
 

Just wanted to weigh in here...

The issue appears to be resolved so I won't comment on the moved or non moved Posts. However if you have an issue with something a moderator please handle it via PM's to the Moderator, and if that doesn't work you can work your way up the chain to other folks. I don't like allowing a habit of publically questioning Moderators, when it can be easily handled with PM's. And if anything else fails feel free to contact me also.

And yes OT is fine in the SE:IV forum, but remember there is no such thing as freedom of speech in a privately run forum. So if a thread needs to be moved or locked, it is a totally apprioriate thing by the mods depending on the circumstances.

As far as rules go, no we don't make hard and fast rules since we trust our Moderators to deal with things appriopriately. Favoritism can be shown by a Moderator no matter what the rules are, so that's a fairly invalid point. I am not a big person for telling folks how to do things, expecting that over time corrective actions and the community will set the community standards for Moderators, Admins, and forum posters alike. Now I could start making very specific rules, but I don't think folks would like that much either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.