Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Just got burned in two games, because Dom2 uploads your orders when you connect. I'd checked my turns the night before, did some things, and selected to "Save Game and Quit", so I could revise my orders (and in one game, _give_ orders, since I'd only issued about 3 instead of 30-40).

Upon reconnecting to the host, I happily went about my business, modifying and giving orders, hit 'E' to end my turn, and found that the game had already hosted - using the _OLD_ orders.

I've never seen this documented anywhere, and personally I think it's a bit ... Bogus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif - the host shouldn't be sent the turn's orders until it's explicitly done via 'End Turn'.

There's a work around, of course - always, _always_ do your turn in off-line mode, but because the ... behavior pops up only when you have issued some orders and saved them, _and_ everyone else's turns have been taken when you reconnect to a game with QuicheKost turned on, it isn't readily apparent that there's a need to do so.

(At least, in retrospect I know this happened to me on several occasions in the Last 6 months or so, but because of the rare, intermittent nature of the phenemenon I dismissed it as an intermittent bug, as opposed to a consistent behavior to be guarded against.)

Feh. This screwed me in two games, one seriously, and screwed an ally even worse in another.

So folks, remember : if you "Save and Quit", make sure to finish analyzing the turn and doing your commands before you reconnect to the server.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

I think that if you are connected to a server, then "save game" means to save it on the server. There is no "send to server now" button. The only options are "save game and quit", and "dont save and quit" which will allow you to enter into your turn in an offline mode.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

I am not so sure about that, Gandalf. I think that 'save and quit' means 'remember the orders I have given so far, but do not send them to the server' and 'do not save and quit' means just 'drop everything'.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Heh. Just goes to show how poorly those commands are understood, Gandalf. As Yvelina says, and as the command says in a dialog, "Your moves will not be uploaded to the server until you reconnect. To upload your moves exit via the End Turn button on the main screen".

Where I misunderstood, and where the dialog is ... ambiguous, is that it does imply that your moves might be uploaded when you reconnect. But on the other hand, it also implies that moves get uploaded via the 'End Turn' button, and not on a mere reconnect.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

i'm surprised you haven't been bitten on the *** by this before caine.

worst is when you reconnect w/out actually having done anything in the turn and it hosts...

:p

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

I agree wholeheartedly that this should be changed to an explicit command to upload a turn. Occasionally, I may do some orders offline, but don't want to upload them yet and instead only want to connect to the server to see who else has outstanding orders. The only way to do this is it seems to move the game directory elsewhere and to move it back in the Dom2 folder when you're done.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Being a big fan of fool-proof programming, I have to agree with Caine and Deccan that it should be fixed. Or at the very least a prominent note should be stuck in a readme file if it's not going to be changed.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Sure, the behavior is a little counterintuitive. On the other hand, I don't see why, once you've started doing your turn offline, that you wouldn't just go ahead and finish it offline, and upload when you're done.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

There are many different reasons. For example, say, I'm doing the turn offline, and then something urgent comes up that needs attention. So I want to connect to the server to find out if I'm the Last person. If I am, in order not to drag everyone down, I might just finish doing the turn hastily (sub-optimally). On the other hand, if I see that I'm not the Last, I may hold off doing the turn until later.

Here's another reason: I'm doing diplomacy outside of the game (via PM, e-mail or whatever) and I've already set some orders. After a while I don't receive a response, so I try to connect to see if the player in question has already done his/her turn, but I don't necessarily want to upload my own turn at that time.

More flexibility is always handy, Sheap, like when you asked me why I would want to be able to download and upload turns via a browser.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Yeah, if you want to do your orders offline, you should just connect to get the turn file, not play the turn, then only play the game as you would a local game; and only reconnect when you have valid orders.

I've never been burned by this, but games on QuickHost can do that to you. Hey, I'm thinking right now - this may be how thinktank missed so many turns on our 2-player games...

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

In theory that's what people should do. But sometimes, when you get a new turn, you can't help but view what's happened, check things out and give a few obvious orders, and then you realize, oops, I don't have the time to issue orders for everything right now, but you don't want to start from scratch again either later.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Heh. You seem to hit all the places where the game doesn't do things well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying "you should never want to do this," or that flexibility isn't good. It's just that often, people will complain that something is difficult, when in reality they are just trying to do things the hard way.

If you need to check the server without uploading, you can rename your "<nation>.2h" file in the subdirectory belonging to the game you are playing, and then you can safely reconnect to the server and check on your turn status. Of course, this is awkward, but hopefully it shouldnt be needed too often.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Sure, there are work arounds to avoid being bitten by this - as you say, connect once, complete the turn in offline mode, and only _then_ connect once every order is exactly as you wish it to be. Or renaming the .2h file (talk about having to do things the hard way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

The fact that people have to do this is a relatively small inconvenience, sure - not something worth yammering for a big fix.

Except that people can and do get burned by it, because the documentation and interface doesn't at all make it clear that this is what happens.

And that seems to cry for some improvement - if nothing else, something like Illwinter did when people are about to connect and overwrite a pretender:

"If you connect to the game server now, your turn/orders as saved to disk _now_ will be uploaded to the game and possibly used before you have a chance to modify them. If this is not what you wish, Cancel and finish your turn in offline mode."

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

So let me something in praise of Dom2 for once. Dom2 actually lets you issue partial orders for a turn, save the state and then come back later to finish completing orders. This is really useful for lategame, unlike say, SEIV, where once you start issuing orders for the turn you need to finish issuing orders for that turn since partial orders can't be saved.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

That's true - it's a great feature for when the game gets into the later stages, and turns start to take longer and longer. You can see the turn results, give a couple of orders while you remember them, then meditate for a few hours or days and complete them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

I just made a discovery: if you type the wrong password you get in to see who's connected and who's played their turn or not, but you can't upload your orders. So you don't need to rename your game folder or anything.

Re: Bah! Turns uploaded on Connect
 

Nice one Deccan ! - that's highly useful.