OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Hello, thought I'd ask here, cant find the thread which dealt with this topic before, so I'll post anew and try to be specific:
Anybody have a nice tip for me regarding a good SP RPG kind of a game, can but does not have to be fantasy setting, can but does not have to be hack-n-slashy, can involve lots of strategy/tactics and group control, can but does not have to be newer than 3 years old? I am looking for a good present for someone, but dont know enough about where to look.
These ones I tried and liked very much, something along these lines:
- Baldur's gate series (good story, chars, sound, gameplay)
- Planescape: Torment (great story, great atmosphere)
- Fallout series (story, flexibility, gameplay too to a lesser degree, humor)
- Arcanum (idea, story, details, humor)
- Deus Ex original (a game made with love for detail)
- Thief II (gripping and well done, although not really an RPG)

These I found much less enticing, or downright bad:
- Icewind Dale (bored me, never got far)
- Morrowind (good idea which became stale fast; all NPCs just stood around waiting to be robbed)
- Neverwinter Nights (great tool for modders/MP, but a hastily shod-together dungeon crawl which was boring as hell SP)
- Pool of Radiance (ouch, the memory pains me)

Thanks much for your tips.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Gothic and Gothic2 ... maybe you like them. The first is said to have rather annoying controls, but I havn't played it myself. At least all NPC seem to have a life on their own (not standing around). v2 I've played for an hour or two, and while I feel it's rather straight-forward and story-bound, it's quite enjoyable. Graphics are great (more grass and details than morrowind), high differences a rather great. In fact, the map is kind of "folded up", and you have to do long detours to get to a place you could see right down at the foot of the cliff (jumping not recommended - you'll not only die in a splash, most likely the territory down there is ment to be accessed much further "down the story" with a higher level character)

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Thanks, will check into that -- just curious, you only played 1 hour or so? Is that normal for you, or you didnt find it that engrossing?

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Actually, it may have been 3 hours. Wasn't my PC, and it was late at night after a LAN session .. everyone was asleep but me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Personally, I like Morrowind + 50 Plugins more than G/G2 - I'm an avid table-but-no-paper-n-dice roleplayer, so I simply make the missing NPC "life" up in my head, and act accordingly. After all, comp AI doesn't get it right anyway.

What puts me off from G/G2 is mostly the tight correlation between story progress and map location - most times you simply cannot deviate from the given path. This is especially obvious if you play the very first part several times in a row to try out different starting possibilities.
I must admit, I only played up to the point where you decide about what "main path" you put character on, but from having a look at some walkthrough in a game mag I found my suspicion confirmed - once on a "path", it's basically the same again.

On the other hand, athmospere is very "tight", dialogues are quite well done etc.,so I think it's a matter of personal preference and taste.

And it should be easy to get a used copy on ebay .. so financial risk should be rather small http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Gothic is brilliant. Both parts are absolutely playworthy, though all in all I find the first part more atmospheric, while the second part was better balanced. They're both incredible playable.

For a great story, check out Anachronox - while the arcade interludes and the Final Fantasy combatsystem isn't exactly my preferred medium, the story is fantastic and always makes me weep that the publisher went broke and there won't be a sequel.

If you haven't done so yet, play System Shock 2. This is the FPS/roleplaying-hybrid where both parts are incredible well executed. I just started playing it again with two friends of mine, and the three character classes definitely play very differently as they advance.

For the "I don't care about graphics at all"-crowd, there's Spiderweb's Avernum series. Very good stories, and Avernum III is huge.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

yeah gothic , especially gothic 2 is really nice .

one warning though :
the gothic series has almost zero replay value . you play as a single character and you can chose from only 3 different classes and all 3 are similiar . it is like diablo 1 with classes . A mage can still fight but not as good as a fighter and a fighter can still cast spells but not as good as a mage .

so you play it normally only 1 time through . gothic 2 is not too long but once you start you want to continue until the end . the feeling is really real and the great graphics enchant it .
in no other rpg i felt almost like i am the character i play .

you may go everywhere from the beginning but you have to follow mostly 1 strict path because the other ways you may go there but they are blocked by too strong monsters .

so if you buy gothic 2 you will be entertained for 50-150 hours depending how many sidequests you do and if you explore everything of the world or not . but after that there is almost zero replay value .
oh and in the beginning until you are familiar with gothic 2 it is rather hard but the Last 1/3 is way to easy .


another nice rpg : grandia 2 . the story is great .
if you like japanese anime films give it a try .
it is now budget Version so only 5-10€ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Also, you might look at the games put out by, mmm, Spiderweb Software (www.spiderwebsoftware.com). There's a number of RPGs there, with demos (which include roughly 1/3 the game) there for download, so you can see if they're to your taste.

A lot of people, on this forum and elsewhere, have had quite favorable things to say about them.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

wow, I completly overlooked Gothic back when it first came out. I've been dying for a decent RPG game ever since I finished NeverwinterNights HordesOfTheUnderdark and wasn't too impressed.

Would you recommend playing Gothic1, or just getting Gothic2? How long is Gothic1? If its only 20-30 hours, I could finish it over a weekend, no big deal. But if its 40-50+ hours, then its gotta be really up there with Baldur's Gate and Torment (and *cough* Dom2) to take up so much time.

Edit: Gothic3 is coming out in about a year.. hmmm

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

wow, you can only buy Gothic from ebay, and for a game that's 3 years old, it hasn't lost much retail value.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

isn't gothic 1 available at amazon anymore ?

gothic 1 is rather short , 30-50 hours i think .
i bought it AFTER gothic 2 and found it still very nice but gothic 2 is just better .
if you get gothic 1 cheap though buy it and play it before you play gothic 2 .

gothic 2 is longer than gothic 1 about 2-3 times bigger .

for baldurs gate 2 with throne of baal expansion i think i needed more time though .

with gothic / gothic 2 they are very addictive until you have them through . i played it like in a flush until i had it through http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
but beware especially in gothic 2 the end is very frustrating http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Hey, no one mentioned KOTOR yet?

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

NeverWinter Nights was rather sparse when I got it but lately if you reload it and go looking you will find that the promise of MODs has indeed turned it into something worthwhile. In fact some of them have created things which completly changed my view of what was going to happen with it.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

true. Knights Of The Old Republic was pretty good. Cool story, although it was waaay too easy (I played the entire game solo, just so the game wouldn't be stupidly easy). Kinda like NeverwinterNights, where it gets too easy after a short bit.

Still, its worth playing just for the story. And it used alignment pretty well. Anyone with an XBOX should be able to play Fable (formally known as Project Ego). That just came out, and its designed by Peter Molyneux (of Black&White fame). Fable should be, without a doubt, an increadible game. But bastards don't seem to be porting it to PC.

Edit: I actually bought the XBOX when it came out specificaly for Morrowind (I'm a huge Elder Scrolls fan) and if you remember, it came out on Xbox several months before PC). I've since given away my Xbox, but Fable is actually tempting me to get my Xbox back)

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

can you change rules too a bit with the mods ?

cause what disappointed me a lot in base nwn with the 2 expansions was that though the rules were well implemented some things were extremely overpowered .
e.g. a weapon master / fighter with 2 kukris with critical hit from 10-20 was just boring , while playing as a very special , rpgwise cool character like a bard becoming a harpner as second class was too implayable too .

all kinds of fightercharacters like weapon master , monk or special bard were just too strong i think .
in pvp though isaacs greater missile swarm was unresistable iirc so there mages were unbeatable .
perhaps my experience there was too limited though .

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Most of my Favorites you have already played (Planescape/fallout).

I only have one to add that hasn't been mentioned:
Wizardry 7-8

- Kel

PS: I didn't like Gothic, personally. Never played the second one, though.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

i played them all as magic Users, and it was also a boring because you where unbeatable. But that was the main idea: you where supposed to be a legendary hero of almost godlike proportions. I loved that sense of power in the Baldurs Gate expansions, but in Neverwinter expansions, it didn't feel balanced enough.

I been finding that RPGs recently, in an effort to appeal to the massmarket, have been making the games too easy so that new players don't get slaughtered. It kinda makes you miss the brilliance of Diablo where enemies are always perfectly matched to your level. Obviously, in more tactical RPGs it becomes alot harder to balance for all players.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

oh 2 oldies come to my mind now too :

dsa 2 - sternenschweif
dsa 3 - schatten über riva

they are very good if you have any sympathy with the das schwarze auge rpg universum at all .

revenant i liked too . it is an classic too . included beat them up elements in a very unique way which i liked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

for a mix of strategy + rpg :
- disciples 2
- jagged alliance 2

both are very recommendable .



finally if you like magic the gathering :

magic the gathering with both extensions (spells of the ancients and duels of the planewalkers they were called iirc) is just great . it was made from sid meier .
the main part was the shandalar world where you started with a weak character with only about 30-40 randomly chosen cards and then you had to defeat monsters in duels , do quests etc.

a perfect combination between MTG and a rpg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

if you're a game collector, you might want to track down some of the classic Ultimas.. or Bard's Tale.. oh, if we're gonna go down memory lane, Betrayal At Krondor still holds a place in my heart.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

oh and one brilliant action rpg :

Vampires - The Masquerade .

it came out 2000 or 2001 and had really good graphics at that time . even now the graphics are still quite nice .
the ambiente was very good and the concept of the game too :
it was divided into 4 acts .
the first 2 were in the middle ages and the Last 2 were in the presence .
this way it was almost like 2 games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

especially in the presence the fights were just cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
some of my vampires had machine guns while some were still equipped with medieval swords and other melee weapons .

the whole game i felt it was designed with love and there were in each act lots of very funny and humorous little surprises or especially thematic things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Hehe, I played them all, from Wiz 1 to Tunnels & Trolls and Wizards Crown. Wizardry 8, though, isn't really that old. I don't recall the exact date (someone will probably look it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) but it is more in line with Planescape and the like.

- Kel

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

wow.. Vampires The Masquerade really was a great game! too bad I never played it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

That was one of the first games that really let you be a DM in multiplayer. I waited and waited for my buddies to get the game, but it never happened.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

HAHA funny story: I followed the development of the game up until its release, then got it the day it came out. Except I got caught in unexpected overtime at work for a few weeks, and by the time I sat down to play Pool of Radiance, I read the review about how disappointing, and put it right back on my shelf. Same thing happened with Master of Orion3. I tracked the game all through development, then bought it the first few days it came out. Except that time I got a copy for my friend as a belated-birthday present. Again I got caught up with work, and when I got the news that it was terrible, I was saved yet again!

Moral of this story: you can always count on work to save you from bad games. (oh, and read reviews before buying games)

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I thought Wizardry 8 was awesome. I don't recall whether the storyline really grabbed me, but I thought that the tactical implementation was the best I ever played.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

thats what happened to me especially with warcraft 3 .
i was such a huge blizzard fan because of Starcraft/Diablo 2 LoD that i bought warcraft 3 blindly .

you can never trust though reviews at least not the ones from the pc magazines like gamestar or pc games which are sold . especially games from big companies like C&C 3 or Warcraft 3 got hyped and scores of 85+% in all big magazines but only because Westwood/Blizzard made them .
If a small not well known software company would have made the same game i am sure they would have rated it something like 60-80% .

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

well, noone would dare muddy Blizzard's perfect record. They've produced ONLY bestseller games so far. Which, btw, where is World Of Warcraft? I've been holding off from playing MMORPGs for the same reasons I don't snort coke (cos the icecubes gets stuck in my nose), but I think I might actually try this one when it comes out (if it ever comes out)

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

One word: Darklands.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

LOL Tinkthank!

I am avid RPG gamer myself - it is by far my favorite genre in computer games (wargaming/strategy gaming only comes as distant second http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ). I also have a lot of experience with pen and paper games, have been creating a large compaigns of my own and DM-ing them in my school and college years. Finally I think I can safely say (and I hope it will not sound too arrogant) that I've probably played 95+% of all PRGs worth playing that were created in the Last 15+ years, no matter which public or privite "Hall of RPG Fame" you will take.

What is more relivent to you though, is that my own personal "Hall Of Fame" of RPG genre is exactly correlates with the games that you "liked very much". (meaning mine includes all the games in your list) Except perhaps Thief2, which is a nice game but not really a RPG, as you said yourself. What even more (and perhaps more important), is that your list of "bad" or "not exciting" RPGs exactly correlates with mine also.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

And I am talking *both* titles of the games and the reasons why you liked/disliked them.

In my expereince it is very rare when you meet a person with so similar tastes and attitide toward RPGs. So I hope my future advice will be valuable to you, since it looks like our tastes in RPG are extemely similar... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Here are few more RPGs that occupy first 10 or so positions in my mental computer RPG HOF, in adition to the excellent games you have mentioned. I'll write very brief review for each of these games, to help you to make up your mind which one to choose, although you'll probably love all of them.

Frankly I would never bother with all this, but as I said the your two game lists with comments that you have posted were so similar to mine, that I feel I should do it for a fellow RPG player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



1. Wizardry 8 One of the best RPG character development system I ever encountered in computer game. Very stylish game. Excellent and very deep 3D turn-based combat system. Excellent story, constant multiply choices thoughtout the game, multiply endings. Superb voice acting. Good graphic, for an RPG. A lot of humor. Tons of small details and the game clearly was a labor of love for its authors (Last game Sirtech produced just before filing for bankropcy)


(Just a small example on in game humor, try to select "mad wizard" personality for one of your characters. (you characters talk to you and to each other all the time, like in Baldur Games game) Than kill him and ressurect him after the battle. All personalities have different things to say in such situation (usually asking you NOT to do it again, or something along this lines ). That one persanality says in high-pitched kindof insane voice "...And a big "HELLO-O-O!!!" from all your dead relatives!!!...". You should hear it, it still cracnks me up when I hear that voice saying it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif It is just a small and insignificant detail of course but the game is choke full of it. I suggest you to run and buy this game right now, you'll love it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



1.a Wizardy 7 was also great game, if you can tolerate early 90-ies graphic. (although it was surprisingly good for its time). Even larger gameworld than Wiz7. More challenging too, for the most part. If you want to play both start with Wiz 7, becayuse the are soem story elements that tie these games togetehr. Although if you have no stomach for more primitive graphics of Wiz7, you can easely start with Wiz8, you'll not lose too much of a story. But whatever you do avoid "improved" remake of Wizardry 7 Gold - it suck.




2. Betrayal in Krondor . Graphic is relatively primitive, but the game is amazing. It is the only computer RPG game in existance AFAICT whose story was created by famous fantasy author(Feist). He wrote story, dialogs, item description, everything, and man, do you feel the difference! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Great book-quality story, very good combat system, excellent puzzles and riddles. Primitive graphic though, but if you like me in this regard you'll never notice it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Try to get CD Version of this game with digital voice acting and CD music. The pure "quality" of writing is the best from all RPGs I've ever seen.



3. System Shock 2 This game is actually half RPG half 1st person shooter a la Deus Ex (but with more RPG elements that Deus Ex). There is one major warning about this game though. This game will scare you ****less. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif And I mean it.


When you'll play it, do it with 4 speakers for 3D sound (the game makes great use of it, best sound/efects from any RPG game so far), with lights turned off. But make sure than when/if you scream you'll not wake your mate/neigbors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yes, it is that scary, and I am not easely scared, trust me. (I usually fall asleep during the "horror" moovies, just to give you example http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

Excellent Character Development system (quite similar to Deus Ex, but a bit deeper). Very good story. Fantastic atmosphere. If you liked Deus Ex go and buy this one, you'll love it.

Oh, and did I mentioned it is very scary??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




4. Jagged Alliance 2 More like half strategy/half RPG hybrid, made by the same company which made Wiz7/8. The best part (and the main part) of the game is definetly tactical level turn based combat, a la UFO1/2/3 but much deeper, and flawlessly executed. Very funny game. Excellent voice acting. The story is not very deep though, but on the other hand it never intended to be. Still excellent game though, if you like strategy/RPG hybrids.




Few more recent RPGs:


5. Knights of the Old Republic. Was created by company which made Baldur's Gates seria. Personally I think this game has some small drawbacks, but it is certanly very good game nevertheless, I liked it a lot.


6. Temple Of Elemental Evil. From the creators of Arcanum (and Fallout) games. The best D&D-based combat implementation in computer game, ever, since the early days of Golden Box seria 20 years ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif (3rd edition D&D rulles really shine in this game and make a huge difference). Combat is one of the best in any computer RPG so far. Unfortunately there is not much of the story, and this is the game major disadvantage in my opinion. The game is am exact opposite of Arcanum, and all Arcanum fans and TOEE fans (and devs themself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) agree that if you take deep story and background from Arcanum and combine it with Temple Of Elementaa Evil brilliant combat system (which unfortunately sucked in Arcanum), you will have THE perfect PRG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif BTW devs are promising to do it right 3rd time though, we shall see... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Anyway, very good PRG if you are looking for fun and challenging combat and is willing to overlook lack of the deep story. But make sure that you'll patch it (there were several offical and none official patches, best to apply them all, since the initial release was quite buggy. With patches the game is runing fine though)




Pheeew. All right, I think that should Last you for quite a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There are few more excellent RPG games, but I think this is enough for now, since most of these games are quite long.

I hope this information was usefull for you Tinkthank, as well for any otehr RPG lover with similar tastes, if they exist on this board. Have fun!

Regards,
Stormbinder

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Avernum III (or Exile III as it was called before the interface was remade) is a very good game. Original setting. The mood/setting is great and the world is huge with lots of little stories and adventures besides the grand plotline.

Spiderweb is an indie developer like us. Do not hesitate to aid them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Yeah, Wizardry 8 is one of the greatest CRPG --- though there is a lot of combat (not pertaining to the story, just a lot of monsters to deal with).

From the really old school there is Might&Magic 6,7 and 8 (6 was better than 7 which was better than 8). Don't buy 9.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Concured with. If you can find it and run it, Darklands. It will unlikely be anyone's cup of tea, but it is worth a look, and definitively more than that (it came out in 1992 if memory serves). Do not forget to patch this game though, or else you will be totemised.

Daggerfall might catch your fancy as well, if you don't mind its graphics, and its lack of variety after some time of playing. Daggerfall is closer to a love-hate game; there are worshippers of this game, and others burnt it. Ah, if only Morrowind had been just Daggerfall with an editor to add more randomness and variety... Like above, make sure you have the latest patch, which irons out almost all bugs from the game (you can still experience many crashes though, but if you are lucky, it might actually work well under XP).

Besides this, may I suggest both Ultima VII, and especially Serpent's Isle? They are easy to run on modern computers; a programme has been made for this purpose, as the games were unplayable on most computers. So, if you want to play them, be sure to download Exult there.

Lastly, I don't know if you fancy such games, but roguelikes may interest you (such as Nethack, Angband and its variants, or ADOM). Their graphics are fairly... erh... rudimentary, and the interfance can be cumbersome to learn if you hate keyboard shortcuts. There are also two graphical Versions of roguelikes, with decent graphics and a nicer interface:
- Falcon's Eye for Nethack.
- AngbandTK and ZangbandTK for Angband. I am not sure if I can post the link to these though; while they are perfectly legal, the easiest Version to use is hosted on an abandonware site, which may or may not be fine with our Moderators.

On another note, as you seem to like dialogues (Planescape Torment), may I suggest the Discworld series? These are adventure games instead, but I cannot think of any other RPG with dialogues such as Planescape.

Edit: I knew I had forgotten something. Albion. It is a somewhat old game (1996 if memory serves, so it isn't that old), and that can even run well on modern computers, with enticing graphics. Its setting is quite unique, and it could be said to be somewhat an RPG. Or, on the topic of such atmospheric games, Omikron (or The Nomad Soul as it is known in some countries) might interest you. It is a hybrid game with adventure elements, some action (thrown in at the request of Eidos, the editor) and a drop of RPG. Its main strength is its atmosphere as well, although the core of the plot feels quite cliché after a while.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Heh. I'm glad someone other than me remembers this game. I've had a lot of fun with this. I still remember patrolling the streets of cities at night for cash and xp, sneaking into merchant banks to steal things, feeling the thrill of finding a merchant with high-quality items. But the bugs... *Sigh* I especially liked the historical feel of the game and of course there's the fact that heroes could get old and had to be retired.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Actually, mr. Feist didn't write the game; the Krondor name was licensed to Dynamix, whose creative team is responsible for the writing. The following is straight from the "Author's afterword" section of Feist's book Krondor: the Betrayal, which is based on the game, not the other way around.

Feist adapted the game script into book form, removing silly subquests and focusing on the main story. The book is of quite average quality IMO, Feist's earlier works are much more enjoyable.

All in all though, the game is absolutely great, but let's give credit where credit is due, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Thank you very much, everyone.
Unfortunately, I have to keep this quick.

Wiz 8: Yes, I liked that, quite a lot, why didnt I mention it? I never finished it, because at one point it got too complicated and slashy (monsters every 5 meters) -- had to break off a session because of work, and when I came back 3 weeks later, I couldnt remember why I was in this gigantic underground labyrinth....

System Shock 2: Looks like I must get this. But I cant! I looked everywhere, and since I live in Germany I can get my hands on the German Version, but I just hate that; any tips on where I can get the English original?

Avernum and Spiderweb: I must say that this label looks very promising. A brief look at Avernum shows many superficial similarities with Fallout -- interesting! I will check them out definately.The Gene Forge also looked interesting, anybody know about that?

Stormbinder, can you tell me more about the availability of the others about which you spoke? Great! I have rarely seen this type of Übereinstimmung in taste.

Thanks so much to all.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

fastest (and sometimes ONLY) way to buy games older then a few years, is to go on Ebay.

Although if the game is especially rare (ie, it didn't sell alot of copies), then you might have to wait several weeks for it to pop up, but everything does in the end.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Geneforge plays a bit differently than Avernum. While you have a party of adventurers in Avernum, you incarn a single character in Geneforge. The universe is also very different; whereas Avernum is a medieval-fantasy world with a twist (regarding the various races), Geneforge takes place in a stranger universe.

You incarn a Shaper, whose abilities include the control, creation and transformation of life. Geneforge 2 puts you with the question of choosing what to do with this power. While the plot is good enough, what bothers me about this game is its battle system; many battles are fairly easy to do (especially when playing hit and run), but they can still take quite some time. That is mostly true when playing a plain "mage" rather than a summoner or a warrior.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Oh - for anyone who enjoyed the Bard's Tale series of games, there's Devil Whiskey, a graphically updated descendant. No connection to the BT developers, but very much designed and implemented in homage to BT - the classes are different, likewise magic, but otherwise quite nice.

So, if you're in the mood for an good old fashioned dungeon crawl, check out their demo and see what you think. An added bonus for the Dominions2 crowd - it runs on Windows _and_ Linux, and is moddable.

I believe it's downloadable via their web site (www.devilwhiskey.com), also via game sites such as pcgameworld, gamespot, and filefront.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Aaah, I can't believe I forgot to mention "King Of Dragonpass". You roleplay not a character but a whole clan, where every leader is giving his or her opinion to certain choice of events. KoDP enforces roleplaying, because you have to stick to your role to be successful. Tons of options there, though, and incredible immersiveness. If you like well written and exciting interactive fiction, which is what the most part of the game consists of.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I agree. Its an excellent game. Its on my list of games that I feel every "I want to be a game developer" should be forced to play.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

About Krondor: Well, it is clear that Feist did have a lot of input into scripts, story and dialogs of Betrayl at Krondor, even from these quotes. Also keep in mind that developers relied very heavely on Feist's world and Feist's characters in creating BAK. If, let's say, somebody would write 4th book of "Lord Of The Rings", using the Tolkien's world, Frodo, Aragarn and Gendalf as main characters, and he would do it in close cooperation and under supervision of J.R.R.Tolkein himslef, one should give the Tolkien some credit, don't you think? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif This being said I agree that Dynamix creative team did a very good job as well. The next Krondor's game created with Feist by different company (Return to Krondor) was not nearly as good as original.

In any case, I think we both agree that BAK was a great game.


You are welcome thinktank.

As for avalaibility of these games - I would suggest go to Ebay as the best sourse for all these old games. Generally you will be able to buy them very cheaply, most of the old games cost under 10 bucks. More recently released games, such as TOEE and KOTOR you will probably find a bit more expensive, but still much cheaper than in stores. In my expereience the price of relatively new (half-year to year) game on ebay can range between 10$ and 30$ in general.

Also Betrayl at Krondor was decalred a freeware by Sierra some time ago, and can be downloaded from the various internet sites but I think it was refering to none-CD Version only, IIRC.

I bought my CD Version of BOK for 5 bucks on Ebay Last yer, after the infamous and misterious dog eat my own CD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



About some other good games that were mentioned here bu other people:


King Of The Dragon Pass is indeed very good indep game. It is mostly strategy game(simulator of prehistoric tribe living in harsh fantasy world based mostly upon eastern european folklore), but it has some strong RPG elements as well. I would say it is 2/3 strategy , 1/3 RPG. It has no animation but instead shows a lot of beutiful hand drawn pictures. All in all very good indep game, if you like such RPG hybrids.

Avernum1/2/3 (Elite 1/2/3 before remake) and Geneforge 1/2 are good games. All are very old school RPGs, which is trademark of all Spiderweb's games. I have played them all and I liked Avernum 3 the most. You can download it and play first 1/3 if it free (it is huge), and if you like it youcan pay and register it. I suggest you do it to get a feeling if you like this game or not.

Personally I think Avernum and Geneforge are very good and solid RPG, but I don't think it quite reaches the "masterpiece" status like games such as Planescape:The Tournament, Wizardy7/8, Betrayal at Krondor, System Shock2, Falout, et cetera. I think even most Spiderweb fans will agree on it. But after you done with the games mentioned above, you should certanly check Spiderweb's games, they are good.

Might and Magic 6/7/8 (and 3/4/5 before it) seria is also a good one, I agree with Gandalf's comments on it.

Ultima is a good seria as well, some of its fans consider it to be the best one. The best games in the seria are Ultima 7 (with Seprpent Island) and Ultima 4. Ultima Underworld 2 is also a very good game, if you can tolerate Doom1 quality graphic of that period.


Anyway, if I would continue my list beyond 6 games I have mentioned (and those that you have already played of course), these would be the games I would add to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


BTW while I can answer differently about exact order of top 5 RPG games of all times in my opinion, depending on my mood when you ask it, there is no doubt for me about which game occupies 1st position. I think Planescape:The Torment was the best RPG I ever had pleasure of playing. I am not sure if another one such a this will ever be created, given the recent trends in gaming market, but I can always hope... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif


BTW ironically PS:T tanked big way in retail, despite riping rave reviews from all computer game sites and magazines. I guess it tells you something about mainstream gaming public, does it? [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] Also almost all companies that made the these great RPG games in the past have gone out of business.

I mean - Microprose, Sirtech, Origin, New World, Interplay/Black Island, Looking Glass, you name it. Personally I think it is quite sad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif



Anyway, good luck with these great games, I think you'll love it. I even envy you a little since you will have a pleasure of expereincing these games for the first time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif Have fun!

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Btw, Fable is about to hit the shelves and is long anticipated by many.

- Kel

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Feist explained some of why the game wasn't so good in a few recent Posts to alt.books.raymond-feist You should be able to find them on google Groups.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Planescape: Torment is definitly my favorite game of all too.. I've been thinking about playing it over a second time recently.. also found this: http://www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html

its all the dialogue from the game put into Novel format. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it seems like a brilliant idea!

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I agree that Planescape: Torment is a great game. But surely it's more adventure and less RPG?

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

More adventure and less RPG? Methinks you think of another game.

Planescape is the one where you wake up dead, and the first member of your party is an obnoxious ... skull. Very much an RPG of the first water.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

character development, loot, semi tactical fighting, lots of NPCs with interesting personalities, heck even based on a pen and paper rpg...

- Kel

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I'll take a look, thank you.

Also I suggest check out the Last release of this fan made fix pack, if you are going to play Planescape again. It fixes a lot of bugs/missing items that were left unfixed by oficial pathces. It aslo activite some interesting dialog options that existded in code but were missing from the game. All in all I think it it is "must have" patch for hardcore Planscape fans. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.accesswave.ca/~cthorpe/

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Not at all. In fact it is the Mother of all RPGs in my opinion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif After all, we sometimes forgot that RPG stands for Role Playing Game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif And the quality and quantity of roleplaying in PS:T is unsurpassed by any other computer RPG up to date, IMHO.

In addition PS:T has all "standard" computer RPG's "wheels and whisles" that you could possible ask for, and it is based upon AD&D pen and paper RPG system. But unlike so many of its computer brethen it actually has the story to tell, which happened to rival best of adventure games (and most of good fantasy books) out there, and it allows you to change and shape this story as you go. But that doesn't make the game "adventure" by any means. It is pure RPG, amd much more so than many mainstream one.


(Sorry if I sound a bit like preaching, but as you can tell I really love this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Regards,
Stormbinder

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I must say my view is closer to Deccan. Torment is based on dialogue, its universe (which is borrowed from the pen and pencil RPG of the same name), but has little else to its name. At least, I get quite bored when doing battles and the like, and only the dialogues kept my interest alive in this game (they are good enough to make me love the game, however).

I would definitively not put Torment on the same level as, say, Darklands or Daggerfall, or others. So a Category should be created for this one; what about "rattling box RPG"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif A game such as Albion would be much closer to the gameplay I had with Torment, or even Omkiron for this matter . These are games I did not play for their RPG side, but for their ambiance and background. On the other hand, my description quite looks like some of the Ultimas (namely Ultima VII and VIII; I did not play Ultima IX), so perhaps I am just splitting hair.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

I understand that someone palyng DomII games is more PC oriented then console oriented, but no-one has considered anj jap like RPG!

If one loves freedom of movement (some one remembers 'Fairy tales' (or something like) on Amiga?), unique char deploying, balanced difficulty, the JRPG are not so good. But on the other hands, if one likes the storytelling aspect, they are the top.
I started playing Bard's Tale, Ultima IV, V, VI, then I approached Diablo. I remember the pure Hack&Slash of Diablo, and I didn't liked it. If I go for H&S and dont' bother the story I want a very deep system, like Dom2 or ADOM or NH. The JRPG dont' have a very balnced system, often are easy and sometimes frustrating. But some have the finest world and story (ancd characters) ever built.

Some titles i have in mind:
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Final Fantasy VII, IX (PS, PS2)
Xenogears, (PS)
Vagrant Story (not really an RPG but beautiful) (PS)
Suikoden, (PS)
Final Fantasy Tactic (PS)
Front mission III (PS)
these Last two are 'strategic' JRPG, some worsd to indicate tactical party combat game with RPG elements.

Re: OT: a nice RPG-ish game?
 

Errr... You are saying Ultima 7 and Ultima 8 in the same breath??? Most Ultima fans would call for your blood at this point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Are you sure you did not confuse numbers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As for the Tornment and other roleplaying games - there are many different types and subgenres of RPGs, naturally. Obviously PS:T is different type of RPG than Darklands. Just like Fallout is different type of RPG from System Shock 2.

However just because one RPG is different from another, that doesn't make one of them none-RPG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif RPG stands for Role Playing. In Albion that you mentioned for example, you can't roleplay at all. IIRC it has no choices, no multyply endings, and is very linera. It is still considered to be RPg, because it has mechanics and numbers, and this is fine. In PS:T in addition to all numenrs and choices how to develop your character, you roleplay more than in any other RPG that I ever played during each step of your long journey, and as I said I've played a lot of computer and none computer rpgs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif So of course PS:T is RPG.