US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs illegal
 

Anyone who has ever used an iPod, taped TV shows, or made a mixtape
for their friend needs to read this! Hollywood is pushing Congress to
pass a bill that could make the VCR, CD-Rs, and iPods illegal.
http://savebetamax.org/

In late 70s, Hollywood tried to make the VCR illegal. Now they're at
it again. Back then, Hollywood's lawyers argued that because *some*
people might use a VCR to make illegal copies, they had a right to sue
*any* business that sold VCRs.

Fortunately for the future of technology, the Supreme Court said that
any new technology with "substantial non-infringing uses" was legal
and should be allowed to flourish. That wisdom, known as the "Betamax
decision" (after VHS's short-lived predecessor) was great news for the
economy: dozens of markets sprung up that would otherwise have been
smothered by the fear of litigation and liability. And it was good
news for Hollywood too: soon they were making billions in the same
video rental market they tried to litigate out of existence.

But now Hollywood (and the major record labels) are trying to undo
"Betamax" with a new law that would let them sue any business that
gave their customers freedom to make legal copies. The music and movie
companies claim they only want to ban p2p filesharing software like
Kazaa. But legal experts say that dozens of products--even Apple's
hugely popular "iPod"--would soon find themselves under the gun. We
need to stop this from happening, and the time to act is now.

http://savebetamax.org/

This legislation is called the INDUCE Act, and it's opposed by the
mainstream technology industry (eBay, Google, Intel, Verizon, and
Yahoo have all lobbied against it) along with public interest
advocates like Public Knowledge and even librarian Groups. These
companies and organizations are all making their voices heard in
Washington, but now it's time that members of Congress hear from the
public (you!).

We're organizing a national call-in day. The plan is: Senators who are
siding with Hollywood against the public interest will receive a
steady stream of phonecalls for as long as it takes. Think of it like
a consumers' rights march on Washington that you can do from your home
or your desk at work. Hollywood and the record companies have millions
of lobbying dollars, but all we have are our numbers. If you think
keeping the VCR legal was a good idea, we need you to act
now:http://savebetamax.org/

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Well, I am no lawyer and no expert of US governance but I believe that it is not hard with common sense to see where it would lead, to make recording devices illegal would cripple US industry, economy, etc. beyond any recognition. It seems to me that it would be another Version of DMCA . Good luck for your campaign.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Sounds like they are just siding with the more-money companies against the small-money companies. Standard "good for jobs, good for the economy" policy.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Vaguely related. Very interesting and highly entertaining: Here in the UK we've been subjected to a campaign trying to peruade us that DVD piracy funds terrorism. This guy exposes it a s a pack of lies-

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/ip1.htm

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

I have always wondered why video recorders are legal. You can't copy commercial tapes, yet you can copy anything on TV.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Another step to The Right to Read

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Fair use. I pay for the television service. I don't have to watch a show immediately when it airs. I can record it and watch it later. I may have been at work, or at dinner, sleeping, or any other number of reasons.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

That's the same sort of drivel that RIAA has been pushing on Capitol Hill. The narrow cynicism of this industry is beyond belief. Whatever the concern of the day is, RIAA pops up and claims that P2P trading on the internet is supporting it. Drugs, porn, terrorism. Anything that gets people excited they immediately send some 'expert' to claim that the P2P networks are carrying it, or supporting it.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

You pay for television service? Television is free. Like radio.
Gandalf Parker

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Broadcast television of a handful of syndicated network channels, yes. There are a lot of stations for which you have to pay for cable, satellite, etc. acces to see... such as Comedy Central and Sci Fi channel.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

In the Uk we actually have "Television Liscenses" which is basically paying for even 'terestial' television. Then we pay extra for "satelite" television.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

I consider this a good thing. This means that the BBC is not influenced by advertisers or by governmental sponsors (in theory, anyway.) We get the best of both worlds- we get the bbc, which has a world-class reputation for producing some of the best tv in the world, and we also get channels funded by advertising, and then we can also opt-in to subscription channels if we wqant/ have the technology. With set-top digital boxes at fifty quid a go, there's not much excuse not to have the technology. And the license fee is ~10 pounds a month, (approx $15-$20US) which is a round of drinks.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Dogscoff, do I read you right? Did you mean that the BBC is ad-free because of this tax? Or am I just daydreaming?

We have one similar tax in France, but "public" channels still have to rely on ads to fund their programmes. Granted, the channels that do get the government funding may have slightly fewer ads than the others, but I would say the difference isn't too important.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

When I went to work in England a few years ago I bought a portable television. I thought the authorities would never find out but twice I received letters warning me about watching TV without a licence. As a paranoid, dictator http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I find it fascinating that a democratic country has vans driving the streets detecting illegal tv watching (and I still can't figure out how they can detect you "receiving" transmissions), similar to the Gestapo in Occupied Europe detecting resistance radio.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

The US congress wants to make Ipods and VCRs sick!

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

They can detect you receiving TV transmissions because a TV receiver contains a local oscillator that is used to downconvert the television signal from high frequency to low frequency. You know, when they broadcast the signal, they use a carrier that is much higher frequency than the original video signal, and when you receive the signal, you have to convert the frequency down again to be able to watch it. The oscillator in the TV receiver leaks out a signal that can be picked up by antennas on those vans driving by.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

In Germany the public stations which are funded are ad-free after 8 PM.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

That is correct. That is how the BBC is funded. They aren't allowed to advertise, and BBC tv/ radio have to be very careful about accidental product placement.
It may seem draconian to have detector vans prowling around, but it enables an unbiased, apolitical news and entertainment medium, and it's been a highly successful one since it's foundation [BIG_NUMBER] years ago. Many ppl rate British (and particularly the BBC's) news & entertainmnet programs as the best in the world. Even if you don't, you certainly have to rank it as being up there with the big boys. Personally I wouldn't ever trade it for the infomercials of american TV or the propaganda of Italian TV. Of course we still get american infomercials, but that's because subscription and advertising-funded channels are broadcast alongside the BBC channels.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

I recall that BBC Radio doesn't have any ads, but I hadn't expected to be the same for their tv channel. I am not too sure why we do not have a no-ads channel in France, or at least, a "ad haven" from a certain hour, as what Mephisto pointed out for Germany. Hmm.

I can concur with the ranking of the BBC; they have quite a reputation even abroad, and I would say it is probably not just a coincidence. The BBC can even afford to have a pretty impressive website (and more than just a display for their own programmes), which doesn't seem too common for media companies.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

And best of all, the rest of the world gets to watch/listen for free! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I listen to the BBC rebroadcast on my local NPR station quite frequently.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

bumpie

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs illegal
 

My feeling is that if anyone broadcasts any signal through my house and/or body, no one should have the right to prevent me from receiving, decoding, and recording and replaying that signal for personal non-profit use. Period. It seems damned obvious to me. But some people want to own and control everyone else, because they are tyrranical bastards. Die, tyrants!

PvK

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif[/img] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img]

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

You are misunderstanding the point... only a small number of television stations are actually broadcast... most of them are only available via cable or direct satellite link... Certainly the 9 or so channels that are broadcast through the air are free to use as you want, and it is perfectly legal to do so...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Those are services. The rules are very different for services and FCC licensed channels. There are many things that your TV might receive thru cable and satellite like music or pay-per-view movies or even interactive tv like webtv or internet. All of those have very different rules.

In fact, in the case of THOSE services you are very limited in saying "I pay for and have a right". The aired channels will give you alot of rights. The private services can be much more restricted.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Just the other day I was thinking about Radio without the annoying inane announcers or ads. Wouldn't it be great if you just had song after song, with a minimum interruption to say what will be played for next hour. Of course the Radio station has to make a living. Is there such a thing as pay radio?.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

As was mentioned, the BBC assert the right to track down and punish people for decoding signals in their own homes. Satellite TV companies assert similar rights.

I appreciate there are other issues about what people have the right to do with data they get from a cable service or the Internet. I tend to feel similarly about those, and that it's ultimately futile to try to assert that people have no right to receive, decode, record, and even share such data, because technology has advanced to the point that it is just getting more and more trivial to do so. It's akin to telling people they have no right to see, hear, listen, understand, remember, write or talk.

PvK

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Alneyan - yes, the BBC is completely free of commercial ads (it does show some ads for its own shows and products). It's great - it means those "one hour" american shows only take 45 minutes to watch!

Seriously though, this anti-piracy garbage makes me puke. Give us reasonable prices and we won't "steal" IP. Screw us for US$30 for a music CD and $60 for a PC game and we start to think about it.

CC

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Usually it is more like $10 to $15 US per song, due to most CDs only having a couple of worthwhile songs, the rest being crap...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Supreme court will strike the law down, given the precedent set by the "Betamax" decision. Then again, this is a conservative court, being the Rehnquist court.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

They can pry my iPod away from my cold dead hands...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

I may not have an iPod (I have a Phillips MP3 Player, not as good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) But i agree entirely. Its even worse today. I remember Albums in the Uk used to cost £12, nowadays they're almost £20 unless you're fortunante to have a shop nearby with "honest" prices http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Good ol' Canada...did you know that downloading music is legal here?? Not just "not illegal, not legal" but actually legal! (At least, I hope my information isn't out of date, or just plain wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

That means, instead of buying a CD for $20 CAN, and getting 2, maybe 3 songs I like, I can just download them for the cost of the CD, the internet, and the burner, and have 20 songs, that I actually like! God, I love the internet.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

That is not true. It is illegal here as well. You may be getting confused with a recent court decision where ISPs can not be forced to identify Online music sharers.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Also, he is probably confusing it with the fact that the major Canadian record labels get a bit of money from a tax levied on all CD recordable media in Canada...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Which the local computer shop doesn't charge...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

actually kwok. The Courts ruled this year that it is not illegal to download files from the internet.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

No, it's still against the law to download copyrighted materials! As part of the reasoning for not forcing ISPs to disclose information re: Online file sharers, one judge described a p2p network as a photocopier in a library. Although it is surrounded by copyrighted materials - the photocopier (or p2p) is not illegal itself. This does not make it legal to download copyrighted materials - although it certainly makes it hard for anyone to do anything about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Ok. Guess I was wrong after all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Remmeber, Just because it is Illegal doesn't make it Morally Wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's not the Artists who are getting hurt, it's the Music Industry Fat Cats and their obscene profits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Obscene profits is rather an impossibility in an old industry. There is no OPEC here controlling profits. If there were obscene profits then there would be more artists starting their own company in order to "fix" the problem. (rather like how Tim Brooks decided to switch from developer for awhile to publisher starting Shrapnel Games)

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Actually Gandalf I would liken the funding members of IFPI very much to OPEC. The major record labels and major Hollywood studios *do* talk to each other about prices. (I'm not sure about games companies.) They don't charge what they think is a fair price for a CD, they charge "what the market will bear", ie. as much as they can get away with. That's why, here in the UK, the majors are so upset about the supermarket chains undercutting them and selling CDs for as little as £10 (about US$16), and *still* making a big profit on them.

CC

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

Well "what the market will bear" is often referred to as commerce. Supply and Demand. Thats not quite the same as "obscene profits". The idea that a CD should cost little more than the cost of making a CD is done but its not seen much. Thats because the price of doing it that way doesnt let it be seen. The price charged for CD's now also cover marketing, research, the cost of the ones that do well have to cover the cost of the ones that flop, and the cost of running the company. Whats left over after that is profit.

Gandalf Parker

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

0.11 profit for the artists...

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

I'm glad I live in Australia sometimes, sure our Music CD's cost $30AU and our games all come out at $89-$99AU
each, but the simple fact that our goverenment is so far behind the times they're only starting to be aware of P2P and MP3 piracy amazes me. This whole copyright infringment issue could have been avoided years ago if the Music industry and Hollywood caught on instead of putting their heads in the sand. The idea of iTunes is probably the best way to "overcome" priacy. I say "overcome" because its reasonable to assume piracy will never full stop, it'll always happen in some shape or form no matter what technology we may use to try stop it.

However, if we follow the idea of iTunes and make it easier for these people to buy the product and download it from a site for a cheaper price then going out and buying a packaged Version from a store, it'd at least move us in a direction that would discourage piracy. From iTunes, a movie company could create a site where you can download movies for a certain price each. Then you could also have a similar site where you could purchase CD Image files for a price each and then download them. All this could be controlled by an encryption key, allowing only ones with the key use of each file. While this isn't a fool-proof idea, I believe it is a step in the right direction which can't be as bad as just putting heads in the sand and hoping the nasty pirates will stop/be caught/die horrible deaths or so on.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

FYI: In the game industry it's a rare thing where a publisher gets to determine the final product price. That responsibility falls on the retailer. There is such a thing as a MSRP (manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) But there are laws against "Price Fixing" (here in Canada at least) So if a retailer buys a game for 32$ it can sell anywhere from $39.95 to $79.95. It all depends on what kind of markup the store wants. When I Managed a computer department I would mark up the games at approximately 100% ($32 = $64.95) With good clients (AKA 'Regulars') I'd go as low as $49.95 which was still a healthy mark-up. and with the everyday crowd, I'd be nice and sell the game at $59.95. Everybody is happy to get a discount, even a $5 dollar one. Bottom line the retailer is the one who has 'room to bargain' the developer and publisher generally get about $10/game after expenses.

An Online publisher is a rare breed that does get to set their retail price, and although most Online publishers make a 'healthier' profit, their sales tend to be on the short side. For example, a game is considered a success in retail if it sells 100,000 copies, compared to about 15,000 copies by an Online publisher. Sure the publisher and it's developers can and do make a good living this way, but they have a struggle getting their products in the mainstream.

Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

There was also a point made by somebody I don't recall, about how lately the "legit" software is coming with more and more spyware and other nonsense, and they get hacked to remove it.

When downloading a hacked Version becomes safer than buying it, things will really be in a bad state.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

OTOH, the music industry *did* get convicted of price fixing recently. Parts of supply and demand only work if you have competition in the supply area. Monopolies and price fixing remove that part of the system.

Re: US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs ill
 

It's funny, I said almost exactly that to the UK music industry six years ago when I worked in a gov't-industry liaison role. Better later than never I guess ....

CC