New pretender gods
 

I have one new pretender what i like to see... He has skill to heal battle afflictions it could be call like master healer he is like other human pretender but it cost little more like 65-75

So has any other player any idea of new pretender gods to one of theme, nation or pretender whant can be use every nations?

Re: New pretender gods
 

Sure. I think Machaka definately should have a spider goddess / pretender, based on the description of Black Sorcerors and Sorceress's, who turn into giant spiders based on their being descendants of their dead god in the mountain - presumably a spider.

So - either a hybrid, centaurish spider, or a full spider (possibly undead) with no arm slots, but 8 misc and 4 sets of boots. (That part is a joke http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: New pretender gods
 

Yeh Lolth!

Re: New pretender gods
 

Sure. A huge Pyramid that would make even the Sphinx look wimpy. Should have only one eye - albeit a big one - and provide additional income in the province it's in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: New pretender gods
 

I always thought there should be a water/earth pretender.

Maybe a Clay Spirit, immobile (the clay hadens each day in the sun), 2E2W, immortal (reforms out of river clay).

Re: New pretender gods
 

Sticking with Godly archetypes from myth and legend, Dom2 really lacks a trickster of some sort. The somewhat good/somewhat bad/always unpredictable god that is so essential to round out a pantheon. Some possible abilities include, but are not limited to:

• Increases unrest in own province
• 25% chance of bonus good event in own province
• 15% chance of bonus bad event in own province
• low dominion
• low fire/air/astral magic - though, really, could be anything depending on which mythology you would raid for the trickster
• stealth(+25)
• instill uprising ability (not that many people would use a pretender for this, but it is thematic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)
• extra miscellaneous slot over base creature type

Anyhow, you get the idea. The Dom2 pantheon is filled with the good, the bad, and the ugly. It would be nice to add the whimsical.

Re: New pretender gods
 

A real necromancer for ermor would be stylish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
He should be another human pretender , a bit more expensive but special . He would e.g. get a few more deathgems or a discount on deathrituals .

He has made a contract with an old god about his soul . After some time passes ( 30-50 turns ) the old god consumes his soul and possesses him then . This weakens the body of the necromancer and he randomly loses in this process then 0-5 magic path(s) and 0-5 hp and his special bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .


The other god i would like to see is a real Demongod unique for the 2 grim blood nations Abysia and Mictlan . I miss this "ancient and very powerful totally evil" type of god .

Re: New pretender gods
 

I miss those truly bad gods a bit too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .
You could put the Moloch / the Vq and the Lichs probably in that niche but at least their descriptions are way to positive and there is no really evil nation in the game too i think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .
Ermor doesn't fullfill this role good enough imo . A nation with recruitable bad guys like demons etc. is missing . The nation could be an evil counterpart to jotunheim and have a demoniac recruitable SC which is of similiar might than niefel jarls .


In general i think in dominions most nations have a neutral feeling . The only somewhat bad guy is ermor and the others are just neutral . I can think of no good nation .
And a lot of fantasy creatures like elves / orks etc. are missing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . All nations have human troops and only jotun is an exeption with giants .

Re: New pretender gods
 

What's wrong with the ancient and very powerful totally evil earth mother. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

More seriously: what's wrong with the ancient and very powerful totally evil Moloch. Hmm, the totally whimpy imps I suppose.

Edit: oops, posted as Johan - KO

Re: New pretender gods
 

I've always thought Atlantis (and a triton mod) should have a GIANT CLAM! Big, tough, immobile, under water only. Probaly some pearl income and a related astral level.

----

Another though, a huge statue animated by the belief of the peoples. This one is even more effected then the usual pretender by local dominion. At negative dominions it is weak and nearly immobile. At high dominions it is mightly and moves easily.

----

The artifact pretender. Confers pretender status on whoever holds it. When lost in battle must be resummoned (call god). Should be expensive since it allows constant movement between chassis. Perhaps it destroys (or feeble mind + cripple) anyone who has it taken away.


Rylen

Re: New pretender gods
 

Exactly! I think the Moloch precisely fits the description of what Boron is asking for (at least for Abysia), but would be so much more fun and so much more thematic if we fixed that imp problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New pretender gods
 

No, no, I don't miss "bad" or "evil" Gods. There are plenty that fill that role. The Prince of Darkness and the Vampire Queen being prime candidates. (The Moloch as well were it not for the Whimpy Imps Inc. I still feel that his ability should be changed to an inherent lifelong protection effect spamming 1d6 imps per combat turn - but that is a different discussion).

What I would like would be the whimsical, who are one part good, one part bad, and one part fun. A splendid example - though that would be Jotunheim specific - would be a Loke pretender. He might not be the best warrior, the greatest mage, or the most learned sage, but things should never be boring when Loke was around.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Well, she is a bad momma, true enough. You could add her evil twin, the Barbie, (same basic shape) for a most malignant pretender indeed.

Of course, for something potentially really nasty, you could have an Aboleth pretender for R'lyeh.... *shudders* Or even worse, and Aboleth *theme* for R'lyeh. The Aboleths have taken over and the star children are reduced to slavery under their Aboleth overlords... Possibly the only theme that would add leaders to beat Jotunheim's in cost.

Re: New pretender gods
 

> I miss those truly bad gods a bit too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .

They come in plenty. Blood sacrificing earth mothers and Virtues of torture and death spring to mind.

> You could put the Moloch / the Vq and the Lichs probably in that niche but at least their descriptions are way to positive and there is no really evil nation in the game too i think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .

> Ermor doesn't fullfill this role good enough imo . A nation with recruitable bad guys like demons etc. is missing . The nation could be an evil counterpart to jotunheim and have a demoniac recruitable SC which is of similiar might than niefel jarls .

> In general i think in dominions most nations have a neutral feeling . The only somewhat bad guy is ermor and the others are just neutral . I can think of no good nation .

Most nations in Dominions are evil. All nations but your own actually.

> And a lot of fantasy creatures like elves / orks etc. are missing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

They are not missing. They are omitted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

> All nations have human troops and only jotun is an exeption with giants .

And C'tis and abysia and caelum and vanheim and atlantis and r'lyeh and pangaea.

Re: New pretender gods
 

What scrying bowl have you been looking into? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Edit: hmm, this gremlin is looking disturbingly like some dead german leader.

Re: New pretender gods
 

You can play with an aboleth pretender if you want. Or set it up for an AI to do it. Its in the MAP commands. Ive tried alot of different preenders such as harvester and horror and tree lord. It can be fun.

I miss the bat dude. Dark Lord. The original one with summons.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Few things:

Some of the more clichee options for evil are not available, but there are many options still. Read the description more closely.

Abysia has no doubt concerning blood sacrifices or crossbreeding humans with demons. They have succeeded, and have recruitable halfdemons in demonbred. They also have created humanbreds, entire race made to be slaves of the abysians, a race totally infernal in many ways. And you think this is neutral?

Helheim seems pretty evil too. And Niefelheim. A nation that *starts* with the spell that is most feared by the inhabitants, the one which will be their death unless someone manages to dispel it... Illwinter, the spell of eternal winter, has very flavourful and evil description. Are these neutral too?

You want an ancient and mystical beast? One that is almost impossible for humans to control and even those who have spent their lives studying it will often become mad when meeting it, or just die from pure horror? Haven't you ever used Void Gate or palyed R'lyeh? They could be evil too. Only if you think that sucking brains of humans and lobotomizing/slaving another humanoid race is evil, though.


Also, Dominions II has no beings called elves, and no beings called orcs. However, both Vaetti and Tuatha can be considered to be the mythical equivalent, and predecessor, of the elves Tolkien & co. have created in fantasy literature. Vaetti were called goblins in Illwinter's first game IIRC, and in other game they would just be an orcish species smaller than normal. All of them, as well as Jotuns/Niefel (hill/ice giants), Caelumians (bird people) and C'tissians (lizard people), have enough depth to rival some of their counterparts *in literature*! Pretty good for a mere game, that doesn't even have elves or orcs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

In short: Dominions II does not have the common fantasy clichees (sp?), it has a theme and roots deep in mythologies of different eras and areas. And not everything that looks like human is even close to being one!

Re: New pretender gods
 

And that's a good thing. Please keep that AD&D-esque crap out of my game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Re: New pretender gods
 

I second what you wrote Endoperez. Elves are somewhat present in Dominions though; there is an Elf Bane, and Vanhir are quite bluntly said to be "a race of elvish beings".

But even if these "mundane" races are slightly present, Dominions manages to stay well away from such clichés, and does not throw yet another Elven Empire of Goodly Ambitions fighting the Infamous Dark Elven Empire of Nastiness, Wickedness and Spiders. It is very nice for once to have spiders without Lolth popping right behind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

My only suggestions for Pretenders would be to add the trickster (mentioned previously in the thread), and perhaps to allow more Pretenders to come in either a female or male Version. For example, a Druidess to go with a Druid, and so on; but this is a minor matter, and you could always "change" the gender of your Pretender without too much problem.

Re: New pretender gods
 

While the people of Abysia are technically half demon or something? I can't recall correctly and dont have the description handy. Anyway, (I know it will never happen but) it would be nice to see some kind of visual distinction on them. Like a pair of horns or something. They really do look like plain humans.

Re: New pretender gods
 

My "problem" with the moloch is that he is available for almost all nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . And the description : "The moloch is an infernal angel called or sent from beyond ."
So he is evil but only a lackey of a way bigger evil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .

Mictlan is good there with the lord of the night as their nation only demon god http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Such a nation specific god for abysia and ermor would be nice too imo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

The other "problem" i have with ermor that first you have mercy with them because they are like the spirits in Final Fantasy : The spirits within . Poor , abortive , disillusioned undeads . And there is the only "half-abortive" Broken empire theme .

And ermor is hordes but they are not frightening . A few priests stop ermorian national armies with ease .
So ermor are the kind of bad guys with which you have to have mercy .

I would like to see a nation which consists of some very powerful evil beings like demons / evil dragons etc. .
They wouldn't be numerous but really frightening , like jotunheim .

I am a big fan of the fantasy cliche of impossible to beat seeming evils like sauron/mordor in lord of the rings or the imperium in star wars http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

The description from the PoD is quite evil though .
Perhaps i misunderstand simply the game concept http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .
You are on your way to ascend to a god but when you do this you are just infernal angel / demon prince XYZ .
Only once you defeat your enemies you ascend to a real powerful god http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
I personally though always see my pretender as a real god already who defeats the other gods which i find more rewarding even because otherwise your pretender seems more unimportant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

If you play e.g. Abysia with a Moloch and summon finally the demon lords you get the feeling that they are your taskmaster and you are only an unimportant lackey of them .
So i would enjoy a stylish special pretender for abysia who has a description + looking which qualifies him to be of equal power with a demon lord .
Then you have the feeling you call your "brothers" for help and not your employer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .
Like in diablo with Mephisto , Diablo and Baal they were 3 equal brothers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Such an evil i would like to have as a god for some evil nations and not a minor one like a Vq/Moloch/PoD .
I would like a good counterpart to this too for the brave and good nations but there it is much harder to find a worthy role model .

Re: New pretender gods
 

i Miss Real Demon pretender 2 the abysians

and Spider pretender to machaka... Spiders need leader

Re: New pretender gods
 

Hm it would probably need too much effort in dominion 2 and more important unbalance it but what would you think about that for dominions 3 :

Pretenders have various stages :
They start weak but the more successfull their struggle for supremacy is the stronger they get .
It should be connected to dominionstrength :
You have 2 or more stages like the eater of the dead .
You start with stage 1 which is the weakest . Once you reach a total dominion strength of 50+ you get to stage 2 forever . If you reach a dominion strength of 200+ you get to stage 3 .

In each stage you get depending on your pretender stylish and thematic improvements . A VQ e.g. could start with recuperation and when she advances to stage 2 recuperation gets replaced by immortality . At stage 3 you get an even more powerful vampire queen with e.g. +x to attack/def/mr/hp etc. .

Human rainbows could get +1 to all magic skills with stage 3 e.g. . The "Monsterpretenders" like the Moloch could start as a small demon as they do atm and finally transform into an archdemon ( not one of the current arch demons but a new type ) .

This would make earlygame war more exciting too . I think atm your best bet to win a "normal" earlygame war is by attrition if the enemy has a sc pretender of his own , especially a vq .

Re: New pretender gods
 

Another nice pretender would be a Fenrir / Fenris pretender for Jotunheim; a terrible giant wolf.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Hey Peter, welcome back! Does that mean you'll be playing dom2 again?

And I agree, a Lokelike (couldn't resist) pretender is sort of missing. I would go with no magic paths and luck.

Re: New pretender gods
 

I like the idea too. Although if that was possible, I think just increasing the chance for random events in the province the pretender is in (either good or bad, depending on the Luck scale) would be more appropriate.

Re: New pretender gods
 

As long as we are wishing...

I would like to see a human warrior king. A great warrior who has won
so many victories, and has slain so many powerful beings that he has
achieved great fame, and has become a legend in his own lifetime.

He would have great attack/defense, come with decent equipment, and
probably have a few built-in abilities, although nothing as
ridiculously overpowering as Cohen's mage-priest-deity-immortal-knights.
No starting magic, and very high magic path cost (50 or even 80). Human
type hit points, and better than human dominion.

Re: New pretender gods
 

I like this idea a lot. If you want to emphasize his "slayer of powerful beings" bit, you could give him the ability to do double damage to larger creatures. That would help compensate for his lower hit points.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Sounds like PvK's Avatar of Ulm.

Re: New pretender gods
 

I was not familiar with that mod, and after checking it out, I know why -
that pretender is horribly underpowered. I would not take him if he cost
zero design points, and at 200, he is laughable. Furthermore, he is Ulm
only, and part of an unofficial mod. I would like a warrior king blessed
by Illwinter, and one available to all human nations.

On the other hand, his graphics are nothing short of excelent.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Yes. I've been sort of busy over the summer but will contact you soon. I might even join one of your hosted games, though I prefer playing 5-10 turns/session quickhost with scheduled sessions such that a game does not take ages to complete.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Nice to have you back, Peter. BTW, you need to update the forum-referencing URLs in your sig, as the forum upgrade and subsequent domain name change has broken those links.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Agreed with Nagot and Alneyan, obviously enough. No need to taint this game with yet another soulless, senseless Tolkien ripoff.
Honestly, it's got depth, it's got flavor, and it's got C'tis(w00t!), and it's got much of what Tolkien himself originally bastardized(Albeit proficiently), would it really be improved all that much by vaguely Scottish dwarves?

Furthermore, when the premise of a game is the subjugation of the cosmos via full-scale, omnilateral war, questions of good and evil become kinda immaterial. Besides which, I don't see how cooking up a few demonbred is in any way more evil than pillaging a contested province.
And all warfare revolves around bringing about death, death and blood magic are just more direct about it than the other paths.


Getting back on topic, I love the idea of a pretender-artifact(Presumably available in several varieties, conferring different abilities?), and invite you to consider this: Immobile, cannot teleport, no attack skill or defense skill, no item slots, MR [lots](For globals such as Burden of Time), encumbrance 100, stealthy(+[lots]), glamour, good base dominion, starts with 1 in each path(Like a "new paths cost 10" pretender +80 points, basically). Size: too big to be subject to Wind Ride. Might want to make it Immortal, just in case**.

Not entirely sure what you'd call this thing, but it can represent:
A) One'a them newfangled incorporeal gods, or a nascent divinity that cannot take shape until it has achieved proper godhead, and not just that pretender nonsense. Or one of those snooty gods that won't sully itself with material form. Or whatever.
B) One of those saccharine, postmodern, thoroughly useless gods that are "in here"*, and in the hearts of all just and true Abysians. Kind of like the Tao Te Ching for people with a Blood Kitsch Level above 0.5, and a crippling attention deficit.
C) Not a god, but a race of gods! Gods that, for some reason, must be blessed by priests before manifesting the full scope of their divinity, but gods nonetheless. All the perks of animism and atheism, coupled with the megalomaniacal elitism of more conventional religions.
D) Just a really stealthy, really cowardly god, I suppose.
E) Some kind of a... a witch's bwew.


Doesn't seem all that unbalanced, does it?

Pros - Utterly indestructible, unless it decides to go into battle, for some reason. Awesome platform for rainbow blessings, rituals, and forgings.

Cons- Pretty much useless should your capitol be conquered or your lab razed, though does prevent your dominion from waning. Noncombatant, can only site search via spells.

Now, if there were some way to make this thing immune to Transformation, it would be practically exploit-proof. Then again, Transformation is high-level, insanely risky without Gift of Health/The Chalice/etc, and by no means likely to yield an SC chassis.
Although plenty of faiths would have trouble with the notion of the transsubstantiation of the divine to the base, there are also plenty that would find nothing paradoxical or profane in the idea.


* Accompanied by touching of finger to chest, as the soundtrack swells

** Though that does mean it would get to safely cast a single battlefield spell(Such as Communion Master), before passing out when defending the capitol. I see potential for exploitation. Not MUCH potential, by any stretch of the imagination, and nothing that can't be remedied by changing it's encumbrance to 300 or so. Aww, yeah.

Edit: Did I say "dully"? I meant "sully". Mind you, I was hesitant to correct myself, as "sully" doesn't sound half as awesome. I mean, c'mon, dully!

Re: New pretender gods
 

How to Mod a Completely Premade, Nation-Specific, Probably Unbalanced Pantheon in Several Easy Steps Incorporating Presently Nonexistent Modding Commands
Some assembly required

A) Give the nation in question a starting spell costing 1 gem of the type of your choice, with a requisite caster level of 20 in the path of your choice.
B) Also mod in a pretender with said level of 20 in the path in question, no other abilities or stats, no item slots, 1 hit point, an insanely powerful horror mark, and the "diseased" battle affliction.
C) Start a game with the nation and pretender in question. Give the pretender an appropriate name, like "a bunch of gods", as in "Prophet of a bunch of gods", or "Marignon worships a bunch of gods".
D) Have the pretender cast the aforementioned national spell. Watch pretender die of either horror attack or disease.
E) Enjoy gods summoned by path-20 spell, all of which function as mobile temples, more like Juggernauts or prophets than full pretenders. If possible, gods' stats should should be affected by dominion.
F) Do not call god, he'll just be eaten by a horror again.

And that's that. As long as we're being ambitious and hypothetical.

Update: Did I say 20 in one path? I meant 20 in two. That oughta make sure you don't Call God and empower the bastard while having elite bodyguards protect against horror attack. Anyone got an idea for an even better killswitch?

Re: New pretender gods
 

I gather there is no way for us to script a new summoning spell, but the rest should be possible to do with a mod. Would it be possible to give the "pretender" zero hitpoints, or would the game complain? You might also want to give this pretender a few abilities; what about the Heat ability and the Fire Vulnerability one? Fire Vulnerability might be overkill though, but that should make sure the pretender won't survive the Horror attack. Too bad it wouldn't be good enough to kill this pretender outside battle.

I like your artifact pretender, but then, I have always had something for rainbow mages (especially if they happen to be more or less useless; don't ask). You may need to make him Lifeless/Undead (I don't recall which is the one to use) to prevent the use of spells such as Twiceborn though. Transformation cannot be prevented as far as I know, but this spell is probably dangerous enough to make anyone think twice before making her Pretender cast it. Unless you really hate your divine avatar in the game, or fancy the thought of being the very first Dragonfly to access godhood, or merely want to show off you are so superior you can afford to lose your Pretender.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Easily supported by the server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Just set it to quickhost and no hosting time. We would need a couple of people in hour time zone, though. Heh. We could even force a turn limit of xx minutes to avoid somebody taking ages to complete his turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Glad to hear you have more time again. Hope it isn't because your job has moved to India :O)

Re: New pretender gods
 

How about the Monkey King, shouldnt he be at least a special pretender for T'ien Ch'i

Re: New pretender gods
 

Stumbled across this webpage, might be interresting: http://www.geocities.com/fmunoz_/dominions/

Re: New pretender gods
 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work on lifeless bodies.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Nah.. I've just had too much to do, wrapping up a scrolling action game and a new levelpack. As for India, cheap wages/long hours/decent skills/lousy initiative, while attractive to many types of software development, is less useful in games development. (Well, management sure would not mind the cheap wages/long hours part http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

Re: New pretender gods
 

I doubt it would work, actually. I know disease auras don't affect the individual units from which they emanate(1 apparition won't disease itself, but a group will disease each other). I imagine heat auras work the same way.

However, Lifelong Protection style imps or whatnot, on "guard commander" orders, with heat auras and an unwavering work ethic, should be more than enough to do the poor bastard in, if it ever sets foot on a battlefield.

The artifact pretender wasn't my idea, I just approve wholeheartedly of it. rylen suggested it on page one, and this thread was three pages long when I happened upon it.
The incorporeal god idea is mine, and is somewhat similar, though probably inferior; it's got less going for it, stylistically, and probably isn't half as strategically interesting.
I'm also a big fan of thoroughly useless rainbow mages, by the way.

Re: New pretender gods
 

[belated response] No, it does not. Grow up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/belated response]

Re: New pretender gods
 

A shame; it would have been so amusing to see your Pretender die because of his own heat aura. *Improved* Imps (notice the irony) with the Heat aura should certainly do the trick however, especially if you happen to cut down their wings and thus make them immobile. You do not want the Imps to go away before their summoner has been completely killed; these Pretenders can be so bothering and refuse to die, even when they are about as powerful as a limp and blind dragonfly.

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the part of the thread when artifact Pretenders were mentioned. Credits go to the original poster then. How wonderful a Rainbow mage is indeed, especially when its paths mirror your national mages strengths (I did it in Try Something New, though I managed to pick one path not already covered by my own mages at least).

Going back to the topic of Pretenders, may I have a nice Succubus as Pretender? Please? A Vampire Queen might do the trick here, but she is definitively too powerful, and so will not qualify under my tastes for "nigh useless gods, whose only purpose is to give a good casus belli to invade neighbours". It would also be one of the few Pretenders able to meddle in assassinations, and assorted pastimes.

Re: New pretender gods
 

A thought: R'lyeh should have a mindless, permafeebleminded, obscenely huge, higher than 18 MR, 20-30% regenerating, battlefield feebleminding(MR easily negates), 200 or so points-costing, nigh-unkillable pretender. And where dragon pretenders occasionally trigger bloodslave-devouring bad events, this thing should trigger army-devouring events.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Thinking of Azathoth? I was wondering about this very kind of pretender this morning.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Yup.


...


Of course, properly simulating capital G, singular form God, or possibly even gratuitously all-capped GOD, with his mindless but very much literal omnipotence, his raw biggosity, orders of magintude bigger than the limits of human imagination of bigdom, really so inconceivably biggious there's no point in trying to describe him, would take about a billion nation points. I suppose we could balance it out by taking away R'lyeh's water magic and Atlantean thralls.

Still, we could always go with a mini-Azathoth, one a bit smaller than the universe itself.

Re: New pretender gods
 

Also check out 'The Battle for Wesnoth'. Munoz made the graphics and I think he's one of the original developers. It's free and fun.

http://www.wesnoth.org/index.htm

Re: New pretender gods
 

Nice little game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Do you know more such indy gems ?
I know one too which is quite similiar and funny too :
Vantage master
http://www.falcom.co.jp/vantage/index_e.html

Re: New pretender gods
 

It's more fun than WC3, has a decent storyline and, as icing on the cake, it's free. Thanks for posting the link, Kris! It's a nice diVersion for me from playing Caelum (which I've been doing to amuse myself by seeing how not-overwhelming Caelum is).

Re: New pretender gods
 

And I thought he looked just like a certain hoburg hero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif