From the mouth of Aristotle
 

"A likely impossibility is always preferable to an unconvincing possibility"

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Welcome back.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon25.gif[/img] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Welcome back!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

backwards Welcome!


hmmm, somehow i'm a bit suspicious of the translation...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I'd like to first thank the Academy. Then, God of course. That fiery impaitent Lord of Fruits and Birds! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'd also like to say, "Great Job Illwinter" for the duo of patches, excellent work all around and the speed with which the brokennessness was fixed.

You've always lived up to my very high recommendations!

Thanks Team Illwinter (and other Swedes!).

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Greetings!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

So, Zen, are you going to do something masochistically silly and volunteer to moderate again? Or are you just going to "relax" and spend all your time being your normal, extremely helpful self answering everyone's questions and gifting us with your wisdom and insight -- and crushing people in MP games?

We sincerely and thoroughly missed ya!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Now all we need is Norfleet and everything will be back to normal again.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

:O

not even in jest, not even in jest...

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

While I miss Norfy's dry wit, and his sarcasm (when he didn't go overboard), "normal" isn't always a good thing. Things seem to be better now. If one ignores the 3-way flamefest presently going on between Zapmeister, archaeolept, and Panther ...

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

"That is not dead which can eternally lie..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

"Evil draws men together." from Rhetoric

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I thought it was dancing girls that did that? OTOH, in some men's minds, there's no difference. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Women are inherently evil thus, they always draw men http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Unless IW needs the stickies managed, I don't think I will. I'm sure I'll end up answering everyones questions and gifting out little white packets of powder (along with wisdom and insight). And the crushing of people in MP is just a foregone conclusion.

I was also thinking about maybe offering up a miniature Modding Guide, until the Parrot can provide us with the official one, for all those Modders out there. As well as releasing a section of .map files.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Of course men believe this. Women are smarter (and far more cunning), which makes men feel insecure, and thus men shift blame for their shortcomings to we poor innocent gals. heehee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Arryn said:
Back FemmeFreud! Back I say!

I'm still of the opinion it has to do with legs, mmm'nnn, and the top part on the legs, mmmm'nnnn. And eyes, dark mysterious eyes along with big racks!

I of course may be wrong, but it's not too often that you see a group of guys oogling a woman for their shortcomings, but for other ... comings.

Either way, I think Aristotle had it right, as you've proven!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Not if the man is gay . The most prominent example what can happen then is hitler http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif .

Anyway welcome back zen . Hopefully you will crush me in a future game too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Godwin's Law!

Alert, alert!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I have "claimed" the AAR and links stickies (I haven't actually updated the links one yet), and Liga's taken the mods sticky. The rest are up for grabs.

Not to begin with the (inevitable) pestering (and to head off everyone else's questions on this subject), but are you planning to release those two (new) guides you had been working on? If you need assistance with editing or anything, just let me know. Else, if your time doesn't permit you to finish them, could you send what you have of them to me and/or Liga so that we (or whomever) can pick up where you left off? (I trust you still have my email address.) BTW, if while you were away you updated any of your other docs or maps, please send them to me, at your leisure, so I can update what I host on my site.

Oh, and once again, welcome back. Did I say I missed ya? (some things are worth repeating)

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I don't know what's evil, but I know what I like.

- Kel

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Hitler wasn't gay. Amongst his many psychological flaws, he appears to have enjoyed being abused and degraded by women (in private), whom he then had murdered later on (couldn't allow anyone to know he's sick and perverted). I'll leave out the details of his perVersions. BTW, Hitler married Eva Braun hours before his death, in case you've forgotten.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Welcome back Zen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hahahaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm inclined to agree.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Well it isn't important but Hitler was gay . Lothar Machtan wrote a 400 page long book about this were he gathered info and proved that Hitler was gay .
This is a main reason why he wanted always to become an artist because in that time only artists were allowed to be gay .
He probably even had an "affair" with Röhm .
But as politician this was at that time a No-No and so to hide this he murdered Röhm and made laws against Gays .

Eva Braun was only "camouflage" for the public .

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Roehm was gay. Hitler wasn't. Hitler despised gays. It was one of the reasons Hitler ordered that Roehm be shot once Roehm's usefulness was at an end.

Machtan is in a very small minority where it comes to historians' opinions concerning Hitler. To the best of my knowledge, no other reputable historian has agreed with Machtan's carefully orchestrated conclusions.

A few small details that might interest you:

Himmler had an extensive dossier on Hitler. And from 1943 on, Himmler was debating how best to remove Hitler and save the Reich (and assume control himself). Had Hitler been gay, Hitler's inner circle would have had him killed immediately (and used his homosexuality in addition to his mismanagement of the war against the USSR as justification for their actions). If not Himmler, Bormann would have done it.

Had Hitler been gay why would he have bothered to marry his "window-dressing" just before he died?

Hitler had at least 3 girlfriends prior to Eva. Hitler was no more capable of keeping the details of those affairs secret than he was of keeping any alleged homosexuality a secret. Especially when he had plenty of sharks swimming around him looking for any chance to strike at him and thus rise in power themselves.

BTW, I've been studying history, in particular Nazi Germany, for about 35 years and I'm still considering doing my Master's thesis on this subject.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Of course I got to welcome Zen back when he requested I reinstate his login but I will add one here (so nobody thinks Im all snobbish or something) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

You? Hardly. Least of all with a moniker like "Gandalf".

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Wow cool . I have history as a hobby and especially world war 2 is one of my most favourite areas . I am most interested there though in the military history http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

The book of Machtan is iirc quite new ( 2000 or 2001 ) . Unfortunately because Hitler was so evil research on Hitler's private life was a taboo for many years and when Machtan wrote his book a lot of contemporary witnesses were dead already .
But during world war 1 and some years after Machtan had still so many examples that he prove i think good enough at the time he wrote the book ( he said that unfortunately some contemporary witnesses were e.g. in prison until e.g. 1980 and asked questions by historians but nobody asked them if hitler was gay and when he wrote his book they were dead already ) . Nonetheless i think his numerous examples are enough to prove it .
But future will hopefully bring even more clear results pro or contra .

When he became more popular then ( ca. 1928 + ) he concealed his sexuality very well then and when he was in power he eliminated most of those who knew his little secret .


Do you have more info about that dossier from Himmler when he started to make it or a source where i can read it ?
Göring was another of his companions who wanted to replace Hitler .
I think the problem of both but especially of Himmler was that he was not very liked in puplic . And Hitler had iirc always named a successor if something happens to him who never was Himmler .
And Himmler + Göring had both a lot of power and both wanted to become Hitlers successors so perhaps they decided to wait for the "endsieg" and get rid of Hitler after that by an assasination . Especially for Himmler since he was the chief of the Gestapo too iirc that should have been easy . This is just my personal speculation though and i would love to hear your thoughts about these speculations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Well this was only a few hours/days before he suicided . It was one of his Last in vain tries to glorify him and to conceal that he is gay .

He often said he is married to germany and can't care for a woman too . Iirc he never introduced Eva Braun to the public too and only after the war begun his inner circle who was with him on the "berghof" knew that Eva Braun was his "girlfriend" .

And there was a niece of Hitler who made suicide because she was in unhappy love with Hitler too .

Göring was responsible for the disaster against the soviet union a lot too . With Himmler i am not totally sure but i guess he didn't get much fame too .
And a bit later Hitler made him i think it was called "Reichsfeldmarschall" but Himmler failed there catastrophically too .

But you are very right : If Himmler had such plans in late 1943 after the disaster of stalingrad and the failed counter offensive at kursk the opportunity for him to get rid of Hitler + Göring would have been quite well .
The question is why he didn't do that .
Perhaps he feared the chaos that would have happened then probably and perhaps even led to a civil war .
Only some days of chaos without one clear leader would have been perhaps enough for the Soviets to exploit this and break through the front and encircle large parts of the east armies .
I think during a war it is very hard to replace a dictator and become the new dictator .


A grim sidequestion : Who of these 2 do you think was even more evil and insane : Stalin or Hitler ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I have a book that asserts, and quite well-reasoned I might add (which includes detailed forensic evidence), that Hitler did not commit suicide (he was shot by an SS officer), and that the body alleged to be that of Eva Braun wasn't her, but someone else (Eva likely died attempting to escape Berlin a day or so later, and was never found in the rubble). I mention this because that book is at least as "thorough" as Machtan's book, yet that author, too, seems alone in his conclusions. One book, no matter how "good" it may appear, does not constitute "proof" of an assertion. Especially if other experts in the field fail to agree with the assertions.

I'll see if I can dig up something for you Online. The actual dossier is, no doubt, buried in a top-secret vault in either the U.S. or Russian archives. The only "evidence" to its existence are the numerous people who knew Himmler quite well and who have alluded to it over the years.

Not really. But Goring was a highly decorated WW1 officer who thought Hitler was more-or-less inept (which Hitler was) and Goring's ego pretty much assured that he thought he could do a better job. Which he couldn't, as the Battle of Britain and Stalingrad's relief proved beyond any doubt. Though Goring couldn't have done worse than Hitler, either. (It's very hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job of managing the war than Hitler did.)

Goring was actually popular. Himmler, OTOH, most assuredly wasn't.

After the Hess fiasco, it was Bormann. At the end of the war, Hitler actually named Doenitz as his successor.

The Gestapo chief was actually Heinrich Mueller, who in turn reported to Himmler.

Himmler was "Reichsfuhrer SS", a unique and higher-ranking title (in essence, a "six-star" rank).

Himmler's almost schizophrenic mindset on the subject of Hitler. On the one hand he adored Hitler and had immense personal loyalty to him. On the other hand, the cold, calculating part of him knew that Hitler had to go. In between, Himmler's fear of what would happen to him should Hitler find out that he was plotting against him. Days before the war's end, Hitler did find out and ordered Himmler's death, after stripping Himmler of all his titles and offices.

That is a VERY tough call. Stalin (by far) had more of his own people killed than all the deaths that Hitler caused. But (syphillis aside), Stalin was more ruthless than he was outright evil. Hitler, OTOH, was genocidal. And demented. And perverted. I'd have to pick Hitler.

Saddam Hussein is in the same league as Hitler, BTW.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Very interesting answers Arryn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . You are right that one book can be very reasoned but maybe not correct . This is why i wrote but future will hopefully show more arguments pro or contra Hitler being gay .
Göring at least tried to replace Hitler after his dead . Though it is so sad i find this always amusing that Göring really thought he becomes Germany's first "Bundeskanzler" when the war was off .
You are right probably that Himmler was more dangerous there .
If he would have had in addition to his "Waffen-SS" the Airforce which Göring had he would have perhaps killed Hitler already . But in the current state both had significant powers and both didn't want to grant the otherone more power so they "balanced" them .

Btw i am not that familiar with Stalin do you know if he had that significant opposition in his "inner circle" too with most of them only lurkering for a chance to get rid of him ? And do you know how many assasination attemps were made on Stalin ?

Stalin always seemed so pleasant in his productions like the good old uncle .
Hitler seemed always like a maladjusted child .
But Stalin had more time to let him look better and he had the "won the war" bonus .

I heard in a documentation some days ago for the first time that Stalin had made some really ugly things with his own population for which i even don't know a german similiar action :
Coming once 20-30 minutes too late to work was a crime . You got a few years prison for that . During the war it was modified : You had to go in a punishment batallion .
Your main job there was called euphemistically armed reconnoissance . That meant you had to attack the german lines and the generals observed then the german counter fire to evaluate if an attack was promising .
If you were seriously wounded you were allowed to retreat but if you weren't you were shot .

Furthermore no russian soldier was allowed to go into war captivity . After the war most of the freed russian soldiers were sent into "gulags" for lots of years because they made the crime of becoming a war captive .
And after the war Stalin once again murdered most of his officers . He would have murdered even Schukov but he was too popular .

So i really don't know who of the 2 was even worse .

Saddam is of course evil too but he isn't in the same league as Hitler and Stalin . He couldn't do as much damage fortunately only local and not semiglobal like Hitler and Stalin .
To make a dominioncomparison : Saddam would be a devil while Hitler + Stalin would be Arch demons .

If Saddam would have had really a nuke i am quite convinced that he wouldn't have had a rocket to shoot it only into germany and definitely not to shoot it far enough to hit the usa http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Basically only the soviet union and the usa have this knowledge . France e.g. has no ICBMs they need to workaround this by putting them on submarines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

He didn't. Beria made sure that there were no threats to Stalin. Not even minor ones. Stalin's regime was by far more ruthless and efficient than Nazi Germany at quashing any dissent. Also, you must remember that, unlike Germany, Russia at this time lacked a (well-educated) noble class, especially one that was highly skilled at the arts of war and politics as was Germany's.

I don't know offhand. I could look it up if you need me to.

The Russians elevated the concept of "cannon fodder" to all-time lows.

If you take the time to study the rise of Saddam, and his rule, you will learn that he's as wicked as Hitler (and as perverse in his own ways), and as ruthless as Stalin (perhaps even more so). The ONLY thing that has kept him from joining Hitler and Stalin's ranks is that as the leader of a (relatively) small nation (as far as industrial might and population goes) he never had the chance to commit crimes on the same scale. But he most assuredly would have had he been able to.

You left out China, India, and Pakistan. As well as the UK and North Korea. And Israel. France does have ICBMs. Their subs carry 64 of them, each missile with a 6000km range and 6 MIRVs with a 100-150Kt yield. 6000km is more than enough range to qualify as an ICBM.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

So, Zen returns and we start talking about Hitler? What gives???

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

The usual. You're fairly new here, so you aren't used to it ... yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Yeah i left them out with purpose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Israel has them from the Usa .
Great Britain is now more or less the little ally of the Usa . Blair is like Bushs dog .
In ancient times ( before the american civil war http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif ) Britain was still like the caring father for the Usa .
Now they have gotten old and the Usa cares for them .
Sure any patriotic British citizen will hate me for saying this but Great Britains great times are long over . Now it is just another european country like France or Germany . Still remarkable but not any longer a big power .
Basically they have only the choice wheter join the EU as an rather important country ( like france and germany the 2 historic arch enemies ) or become the Ally of the Usa if they still want to play a major role in the world .
Afaik China has only "shortrange" missiles which can target japan or huge parts of russia . In some years they may become the successor of Russia as second big power in the world .
Pakistan and India have mainly short range missiles too which can target each other but not much farer .

With North Korea i didn't know that they possess good enough ICBMs to target the Usa .

That Russia had no is not so surprising since Stalin killed with his Great Officer Purge the Last remaining onces .
I think it was Schukov who wanted to make a preventive strike on germany when they massed their troops in spring 1941 for operation Barbarossa . Stalin refused because he didn't believe it .
Really sad because i think this preventive strike would have perhaps ended World war 2 a lot earlier .
Russia had at that time lots of KV-1 series tanks and already lots of T-34/76 ( Both about 1000 each ) .
The only question is if the at that time still relative impressive german air force would have been enough to stop the russian advance to Berlin .
So if Stalin hadn't executed most of his good officiers but studied the german blizkrieg strategy really only the german air force would have been between him and Berlin in 1941/42 already i think given how inferior the german army was at that time to the russian army technically and equipmentwise .
Only the good german tactics / strategies combined with Stalins officiermurdering + his own military incompetence similiar to Hitlers made the german "success" in 1941 and early 1942 possible .
He gave away the command to the army then to his generals and the success hadn't to wait long and was already great in stalingrad .

Btw are you familiar with german/russian tanks ?
Do you think that Steel panthers world at war is a really superb/realistic simulation of that or rather not ?
If you think not please say why .

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Yeah that happens unfortunately always too quick that the topic drafts away from the main topic .
The only thread which i remember where it didn't draft for 200 Posts was when norfleet was caught cheating http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

You really should check your facts before you speak/write. Israel developed its own nuclear devices, with the clandestine assistance of the then-racist South African government.

Quit guessing, please, or making assumptions without actually doing any research. Repeating my advice above, check your facts BEFORE you post. China has 20 ICBMs with 13000km range. That's enough to hit the continental US.

They can hit Alaska and Japan. That's more than sufficiently dangerous. But even short-range missiles versus South Korea are a big problem.

Easily. The Soviets lacked the logistical capability to support massive operations against Germany in 1941. It's questionable whether they even could have done it in 1942 assuming they had attacked first in 1941 and kept the fighting away from their own factories. Russia had more men and tanks, but they had a bad organizational structure and poor morale. Even after the Finnish Winter War and the lessons they learned from it.

Very much so.

They've done the best that can be done given the limitations of that game's scale and design. There are more realistic games, but they are not turn-based overhead-view. You have to go to the 3D-style games to get better realism, such as Combat Mission.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I would have to agree with Arryn's conclusion. I also studied a lot of history and in particular the history of WW2, this is my major hobby.

Both Stalin and Hitler were mass murderers, but Hitler was the only one in this "unholy" pair who murdered based upon nationality. Stalin mostly murdered whose that he though to be potentially dungerious to his reign or to "cummunism" ideas, he didn't use henocide against any particular nation. Although Stalin certanly murdered more of his own people than Hitler. According the various sourses anywhere from 15 to 25 millions died in Stalins's GULAGs during his reign. But than again Hitler murdered much more in the global scale.



As Arryn said it is a very tough call, but I would aslo pick up Hitler as being more evil of these two.



EDIT: As for the suggestions that Stalin was going to attack Germany in 1941 - it is pure nonesense. I have read few books about this very subject, written recently by few authors, who became quite popualr and was milking this idea for all it worth. Thir facts and arguments didn't hold much water, and they were riped appart by real professional historians.

That being said, yt is possible that Stalin was thinkng about backstabing Hitler somewhere in the distant future, if Hitler would be stupid enough to allow him to do it. But that was at best the remote possibility at least few years later, assuming Germany would provide him an opening. Stalin and Red Army was nowhere near being prepared for the invasion into Germany in 1941, and to face Wermaht war machine on their own turf, the best army in the world who have just crashed the every major and minor military power in continantal Europe. Especailly not after the beating Red Army itself got from the tiny nation in Winter War, and Stalin understood it very well.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

My assumptions about nuclear missiles were only from an extreme viewpoint i fear which i tried to "simulate" .
The book/film The Sum of All Fears from Tom Clancy has impressed me there .
The scenario seemed pretty realistic to me when the Usa thought about a preventive strike on Russia . And in a few years if Bush keeps the power and gets another likeminded republican successor with better technics and his new anti-missile programs when they show results i guess it is even more realistic .

So if China would really shoot all their 20 long range nukes on the Usa the Usa would strike back , China would not exist anymore .
Since the newest military development is always kept secret i am not sure how it would exactly be but even with the current technic perhaps Patriots and other anti-missile missiles would even destroy 30 , 50 , 70% ?? of the incoming 20 nukes . A few would still hit and do some harm .

My fear is that in a few years some fanatic militarists may calculate the risk of being hit as worthy doing a preventive strike . If the new SDI Bush lets develop now in 5-10 years can kill 95/99% of all incoming missiles this might get a big problem .

And there is always the other problem mentioned in The Sum of All Fears that terrorists may get a small bomb and smuggle them to New York / Berlin etc. , just to the most important city with which nation they are "at war" atm.



Do you have played combat mission yourself ? I made a quick google search and saw it is from CDV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif .
I have Sudden strike this is one of their earlier WW 2 games and totally unrealistic . From my short glance at a few screenshots Combat mission 3 just looks like a sudden strike in 3d http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif .
I don't care if the game is turn based or RTS but i want an as realistic penetration model like in steel panthers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . If Combat mission 3 has this and you can convince that i am interested in it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But in sudden strike it didn't matter if you attacked a Tiger or a Panzer II with a small anti tank rifle . The Tiger just needed 2-3 more hits .
And 3-4 Panzer II could still kill a Josef Stalin 2/3 tank. So if this is still true with combat mission 3 or another such game you suggest i think it is not realistic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Stormbinder may i ask you too if you know any good realistic world war 2 strategy game ?
Your detailed post where you gave advice to Tinktank seeking a good rpg impressed me . You said there rpgs are your favourite genre but perhaps you have a good advice for me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If you and Arryn recommend the same game to me it is even better because then i know that this game is most likely good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

At the moment i like steel panthers world at war most tactically and i think Hearts of iron is quite good strategically .

I am really looking forward to HoI 2 and world in flames from matrixgames .
Any other recommendations or do i already have the probably best games for this genre for my special taste ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

You used a totally fictional story that Clancy wrote as the basis of your saying that in REAL LIFE the Israeli's got their nukes from the U.S.? Wow. I wonder (and shudder) to think what other things you might believe based upon fictional sources?

While I enjoyed this story (so much so that I own both the book and the DVD), it's a work of fiction. There are numerous flaws in the story if you know what to look for and where to look for them. But they do not detract from the story because it is very well written and they are well hidden and/or subtle. Tom Clancy knows his art (writing and research), which includes what facts to alter and how, so that reality gets distorted (for the sake of security) and fiction gets a taste of "reality".

Ye gods I hope not.


More or less. They'd get sent right back to the age of feudal warlords, not that present-day China is much more advanced, socially.

The U.S. will never engage in a nuclear first-strike. However, a non-nuclear pre-emptive strike is possible ... which if executed as ineptly as the war in Iraq was, would simply trigger the other side into launching first. It doesn't matter who launches first. Everyone loses. All rational military and political leaders have known this for 50+ years. What's scary is that the leaders of some nations (like N. Korea, Iran, etc.) don't care if they lose millions and their country becomes a wasteland. Some of these fanatic morons actually think dying is good. It's just too bad we can't let them have their wish (to die) without suffering collateral damage in the process. The more fanatics kill themselves, the cleaner the gene pool becomes. Now if we could only figure out a safe way to make them happy ...

That's the only realistic, and hence truly scary, part of the movie. The unrealistic parts of the movie are how the terrorists got their bomb, and what the US and Russia did after the attack. But it's a movie. A certain amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary. Just don't forget that after you've finished watching the movie you need to turn your disbelief back on and not confuse what you just saw with reality.

No. I rarely play that style of game.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

WIF is a Gary Grigsby game, and his games are very detailed, yet notoriously buggy and awkward to play. WIF may be an exception, but GG's track record is lousy. Personally, I'm waiting for reviews before I waste money on yet another GG piece of {self-censored}.

I'll probably get HoI2, despite knowing that Paradox cannot code a competent AI. I bought EU, EU2, HoI, and Vicky. Which means I'm {choose one or more of the following}: dense, a glutton for punishment, stubborn, or desperate for strategy games.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Heh, I must admit your guess was correct. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I generally play only two types of computer games - RPG and turn-based strategy games, with very rare exceptions from other genres. Although computer RPG comes first for me, as I mentioned in that thread.

This being said, if you are looking for the best WW2 strategy game on tactical level, than Combat Mission:Bararossa to Berlin(with its desert expansion) beats any competition, hands down. It is the best and most realistic computer simulator of WW2 tactical level battle in any computer game so far. The level of details and autenticity is really amazing. It aslo have pretty good AI, tons of players-made mods/scenarios and compaigns (some of which are even better than official ones), and very active and loyal players community. Once you will managed to beat AI with odds against you, you can start some MP battles, which are a real bLast against good opponents. I still remeber in details my Last stand defense of ruble that was Stlaingrad's central square against wave after wave of advancing german armor and infatry, as well as other MP battles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Of the more traditinal WW2 games, played on the operational level, I would recommend SP:WAW (make sure to get some official compaings from Matrix, they significantly increase fun from the game). Another great strategic WW2 game is Korsun Pocket, which was released about a year ago.


Finally if you are looking for the WW2 game on the global scope, where you control the nation rather than individual units or sqaurds, than I would suggest Hearts of Iron (make sure to download all the patches, CORE, everthing. Look around their forums and ask for advice which mods you should install).


The general gameplay style of HOI is mostly similar to EU1/2. Although in my opinion EU, especially EU2 was a significantly better game. Still HOF is quite good, despite some if its shortages. Based upon my experience people quickly form love/hate relaitions with it, they either completely fall in love with it or think quite badly of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Which actually is pretty tipical for all Paradox's games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


EDIT: NM, I just noticed that you have already mentioned HOI and said that you are waiting for HOI2, so you know what I am talking about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



Anyway, these are the best WW2 strategic games that I have played so far. Good luck!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I agree with Stormy's game choices. Imagine that. He and I actually agree on some things. Shocking. Truly shocking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Acutally I find that you and me agree with each other quite often. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

For example I agree with 99% of all the things you have said in this tread regarding history, WW2 figures and facts, as well as more recent developments regarding Iraq and Northerb Korea. It is not often you meet the person who actually knows what he is talking about, when he talks about history. Most people on the net as well as in RL think of themselves as major history biffs after reading 1 book on the subject. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I am glad that you are obviously not one of them, which is not surprising if you have been studing history for 35 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



The problem is that since I am quite lazy I find myself much more willing to post when I *disagree* with somebody and want to correct what I believe is some mistake, than when I agree with the person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Maybe that's why you might get impression that we disagree more often than we don't. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Regards,
Stormbinder

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Wow thanks Stormbinder and Arryn .
Your mentioned Combat Mission : Barbarossa looks really awesome even better than steel panthers .

They are up to Combat Mission 3 now .
Do you own all parts of that series or are the newer ones realtime and less accurate and because of that not as good as your mentioned Combat Mission : Barbarossa ?


Happy that you both mentioned HoI too .
My main gripe with HoI is that once you have teched out everything you have not much to do .

How do you like Victoria Stormbinder ? They will include parts in HoI 2 . I personally liked victoria expect for the daily revolution checks which made warmongering what i loved most too painful for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

You've really hijacked Zen's "I'm back" thread, Boron, and your Pandemonium turn is still outstanding.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

We're taking advantage of Zen's reduction to the ranks. He's no longer a pretender, so he can't *****-slap us with the almight Hand of the Moderator spell. And sweet ol' Gandalf is too much of a teddy bear to growl at us for being naughty. heehee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

One Last thing back on the Nuke topic though .
Some things we normal mortals will never know .

So perhaps Israel got their first nuke like you told but Israel was almost always backed up by the USA and Israels secret service , the mossad is extremely good too .
So they say perhaps they got their nuke like you told but probably at least shortly after they got lots of new , better nukes or at least the ICBM's for that from the USA .

Israel was always amazingly inventive when getting new weapons in the past time though . They got the best from France/Soviet Union/Usa etc. etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
They have probably the second best army of the world now . Only the Usa has a better army .


Another thing where i am quite interested but where it is hard to impossible to get good answers is how effective Stealth technology really is . The "sucky" europeans now just developed finally the eurofighter while you develop your F-22 Raptor who has stealth abilities but is an adequate all role fighter too unlike e.g. the F-117 .
So if only half of what your PR's say/claim there the F-22 is probably 20-30 years ahead of the eurofighter and every other fighter that exists at the moment in the world .

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I never cared about going wildly OT on OT things. Actually considering that every topic veers so wildly off course it's not really that much of a deal.

Talking about Nazi's and Hitler could certainly go in a much worse direction (and has). But I might just ***** slap you Arryn, just for old times sake! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif