OT: Trojans
 

Today I found four Trojans on my system, three unknowns, and one key stroke logger. How in the hell are these things getting onto my system? I have nortan, up to date, pest patrol, which detected them, and a firewall.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

AT, something has to be wrong as you continue to get all these d... viruses. You may want to ad adware as well to your system, I use Norton, adware, Panda, even Stop Sign once in awhile. Is anyone else using your system when your not on it? Maybe someone else is and going to different sites or chat rooms etc and this is where they are coming from. I'd look into who else is using your systema and where they are going.... I use to get them as well, but cut down on going to a lot of sights or opening email from those I don't recognize. Hmmm. How about your email provider? Does it have a virus chekcer for in and out Messages? Maybe thats where the problem is... Good luck, wish I could help you out more, but I'm comp illiterate in the inner workings of these confounded machines..... If you have this protection how did you find them on your system????

Re: OT: Trojans
 

I think, and I may be wrong, but with all the email trafic I get, that has to be source. I get on average about 30 to 40, give or take a few, viruses emailed to me daily.

This Trojan.CD-IT thing really cought me off gaurd. Evidently I have had it for a few days now. I swept my system on monday and it was clean, but here it is on Thursday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Are there any other trusted machines inside the firewall?

Are you using outlook?

Re: OT: Trojans
 

And here's me expecting a thread about condoms.

Stop using IE, Outlook and/ or outlook express. THat's gonna tie up a lot of security loopholes right there.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

I do use Outlook Express.
I stopped using IE Last year.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

I'm glad I wasn't alone in that.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Might I suggest Eudora?

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Outlook Express is the fastest and 'Best' way to transport and deliver viruses. After installing windows Outlook is the first thing I uninstall from the 'add-remove' programs menu. in the "windows components' tab.

Hotmail, yahoo, ao any other e-mail server is better than outlook. MS should be shot, killed, tied and tortured for making such a piece of S*7#.

Nuf Said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Trojans
 

So what are your recommendations? Just stop using OL and use web mail instead? I guess I can do that.

How does OL allow these things to get installed? Nortan detects most, but I guess not all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Eudora.

free at www.eudora.com

Much easier than webmail...

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Hey, I thought it was my school's mascot...

But, to reiterate what everyone else has said, ditch the Microsoft "internet suite", they're all riddled with exploits that any 11-year-old kid could use. Run windowsupdate to patch your system, get virus definitions on a regular schedule, scan on a regular schedule. There's a bunch of security settings that you can change to make things better, but are for some dumb reason turned off by default (I can't think of any now off the top of my head, but any windows tweak sites, eg. annoyances.org, will have a bunch of them).

Re: OT: Trojans
 

I suggest anything BUT Outlook/Outlook Express.

Some good alternatives:
Mozilla (with mailnews) http://www.mozilla.org/
Thunderbird (like Mailnews, only stand-alone) http://www.mozilla.org/
Pegasus (awesome for when you have tons of email accounts) http://www.pmail.com/

If you absolutely MUST continue using O/OE, visit the DSLR Security forum at http://www.dslreports.com/forum/security,1
There, they have an FAQ on email security and privacy: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/9173 If that doesn't help, make a post on the security forum asking for advice.

A dedicated anti-trojan application is also an option. A/T apps are, as you can guess, MUCH better at picking up and killing evil trojans than any A/V, even Kaspersky. You can learn about some A/Ts at the security forum above.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

This comes up in the alt.hacker newsgroup alot.

Its not that Windows/outlook/internetExplorer are evil or badly written. Its just that Windows is popular, and has a habit of adding "neat and user friendly" things to their software which will automatically without-asking do things for you. They are all good ideas but since it is so popular it becomes a prime target which means someone eventually finds a way to abuse it. And they dont always make it easy to turn that junk off.

You will be happier if you find a mail program which does mail. And a news program that does news. And a browser that doesnt try to do everything. And have NONE of them be microsoft or loaded with "user friendly no questions asked" defaults. I read my mail in text mode on linux, if I do need a gui email program on windows I use thunderbird and I use mozilla firefox to browse. I almost never have any alerts for trojans, viruses, adware, spyware, etc etc.

Of course I might be shooting myself in the foot. My confort might not necessarily be because they are better written. It MIGHT be because they are less used. If they get way more popular I might have to move on (back to windows programs? ) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Not entirely true. ActiveX is a huge security hole, and IE's integration into Windows itself turns nearly every single IE vulnerability into a Windows vulnerability. That's a fact. Alternative browsers are more secure by default because they don't support ActiveX.

There's a good reason Windows is the only OS in which things such as a web browser are so deeply integrated.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

That reason being monopoly...

Re: OT: Trojans
 

MS = bad mojo. But unless you are a computer wiz, or can aford an apple, your screwed. Linux is a nightmare to get working, and one that I do NOT care to embark upon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I am poor so an apple is out of the question.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

An Apple is just BSD with Mac crap piled on top... no real reason to go Apple/Macintosh these days...

There are builds of Linux that are designed for the corporate world, so they are fairly easy to get installed. Suse, Mandrake, Debian, etc.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

BECOME a geek. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Find yourself a community of linux Users willing to answer your questions. Install their preferred distro. Ask away. The n00b-friendly (ones that have graphical installs) distros of linux are quite easy to get up and running to the point where you have network access, and from there you can fire up a browser and point it to your forum and ask away.

Supposedly, the Gentoo community is known for being very helpful. Also, Gentoo is a LiveCD installation. Thus, during the installation process (which is long and involved) you can be using links (or lynx) to view the installation guide. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You can even start up an SSH server, and let someone in to configure it for you, though that would defeate the purpose: you learn quite a bit, doing a Gentoo install, as compared to zip, when doing a Red Hat/Suse install.

If you have multiple computers, and a network, it becomes even easier. Trouble? Use your other comp to find a solution. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Trojans
 

GNU/linux or BSD is not the best choise for gfx artist. Even beos, which is dead for millenia, is much better.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

AT, did you install any software recently? Some software contains Trojans or Spyware.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

Sivran & Gandalf make good points: MS ties everything into everything so if program A has a problem, several others do too most of the time. The only proven way to design an os, is to have tools that do a specific task and nothing more than that task and also make sure that those specific tools are good at what they do. MS still hasn't understood thos.

Glad the IETF shot the spam id from MS. Until they learn to NOT integrate everything so tightly, they will keep on having huge security problems.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

And my mostest favoritist thing. Be your own ISP. I will never never go back to relying on an ISP for my services with all of their rules and limitations.

-- Give the power back to the people! Vote Linux!

Re: OT: Trojans
 

You should provide your services for all Shrapnel Gandalf. I even have a name for your ISP: Wise Wizened Wizard. What? It is Gandalf and not "Gandalph the Grey"? My mistake.

At least switching to more obscure programs might do the trick for you Atrocities (I am starting to fear that Mozilla is growing a bit too well-known, and so might become a bigger target; still, it should be a bit sturdier than IE). I would wonder about how effective an Amiga would be for a safe browsing... Does the Amiga have a mail program? I know there is a browser (Lynx if memory serves), but I am not so sure about mail. It might actually be an option if trojans cannot target this OS. Hmm.

Re: OT: Trojans
 

www.www.net? cute. unfortunately it was one of the first domains grabbed.

Besides.... Been there, done that, know better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
My Last major gig was working as system admin for a large ISP. It convinced me to never want to do it as a business. But I do have a linux server at the house. Half a dozen domains, about 100 email addresses, ftp, dns, small news feed, game server, list server. No charges for anyone tho abit of bartering has been known to occur. Its nice to be able to offer sanctuary in a heartbeat to any poor downtrodden site I feel is worthy, or some 3rd-party programmer/modder/artist that needs a way to offer their works for download.

If I did offer services it would most likely be under techno-mage.com or maybe alt-hacker.org

Re: OT: Trojans
 

The Amiga still has a sizeable cult following, and a community which is generally even MORE anti-Microsoft than Linux Users, Mac Users, and Windows Users combined. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

The Amiga name has changed hands a few times. Gateway was actually making new machines based on Amiga hardware for a while, but I think someone else currently has the rights to the name. Google is your friend.