I love Arcos!!!
 

I am playing a golden era arcos and I really like it! By turn 24 I researched all level 4 (except blood magic) which is a lot faster than my previous games!!! I guess it's not that quick, but for me that's an improvement! But with those 50 gold philosophers it's not hard!!! Now I can even use my mystics to cast rituals, forge items...Ok, their troops are not that great...
Anyway, two questions:
1. I have captured Man's starting provinces, and there are various sites that allow to recruit special units, but I can't recreuit them. Why???
2. What does the sceptic do???
3. As I am supposed to get the full game soon, I was wondering which nations I shouldn't play, as I have seen that some people find some nations to be overpowered...and I don't want to play and love a nation that nobody would like to play against in MP!!!
Thanks!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

1. You cannot recruit other nations' national units, with the exception of Pythium's Hydra Hatchling.

2. Dunno

3. You can play all of them, because they're all perfectly balanced.

CC

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

The Sceptic reduces Dominion. All Dominions, yours included. I do not know how quick it works though, but a couple of them should be enough to break an enemy Dominion quicker than you can say "Inquisitor".

Caelum is the one nation said to be overpowered, though a few others are Banned from time to time, and water nations depend on the map (you do not want to have both Atlantis and R'lyeh competing for three sea provinces). But in the case of Caelum, the problem seems to be more the False Horror spell than an actual powerful nation.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

no. its overpowered even w/out false horror spam. but that really pushes it whole-hog over the edge.

Ermor is sometimes seen as overbalanced, though that tends to be more accurate in newbie games.

Perhaps Vanheim is a bit powerful.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Abysia is typically among the first nations chosen in MP... but that doesn't nescesarily mean anything. I think it has to do with getting 240 (!) practically free points for pretender design.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

240 ? Not 120 ?

- Kel

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Abysia does not lose supplies with scales of Death. It does lose population however. The same goes true for scales of Growth. The other 120 points come from Heat 3.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Ah, I only count the heat as free points since the other costs you something.

- Kel

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Well, it costs you the population, but not the income. So i guess the Last 120 are half-free points... so lets say you get 180 free points http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Fair enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I wouldn't even worry about the population, except they make useful blood slaves and all...

- Kel

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Skeptic prophets can be entertaining, at least if you have a twisted sense of humor. Theoretically, a Skeptic prophet with a Stone Idol, preaching, should have rather interesting effects inside hostile dominion. Unfortunately, they're not very stealthy (+0 ?), and are likely to die easily once caught unless you keep them in border regions only and have 'em set to retreat.

Regarding nation choices, you may want to be careful in games with few players, as some match-ups may be more unbalanced than others. Man versus Carrion Woods Pangaea on a fairly small map, for instance, might be somewhat ugly given that a longbowmen is one of the better basic units for countering CW base undead -- the latter don't have shields or armor, so die easily under massed arrow fire. C'tis Miasma dominion has a nasty diseasing effect, good for defense... but not against undead armies. And so forth. Some will have an easier time than others.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

A death scale still costs Abysia income - 2% per tick, just like any other nation. And their income in a death scale
will decline throughout the game due to pop loss. The only benefit Abysia has re a death scale is that their supplies aren't affected. So lets say they get 120 free points - and actually, to my mind its somewhat less than that, as they lose income when their provinces aren't at heat 3 - so they would prefer a somewhat stronger dominion than other nations, to help keep things heated up.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Really? I'm fairly sure that they don't take a direct income hit from death.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

My mistake; Death scales do not alter Abysia's income, except through population loss. They have 133 income with 30,000 inhabitants against 131 income with Death 3 and 29,600 inhabitants, all in the same province.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Arg - my mistake as well. Abysian income is indeed unaffected by growth/death.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Abysya is very weak indeed.
You can take points from heat and death.

You've to bring your provinces to heat 3 unless you want to waste 5 or 10 % of the income.

Your best mages are capitol only, and cost a lot for what they do.

Your infantry is very costy but its morale 10 makes them very breakable. Usually Abysya if rushed find itself to be forced to defend with Pretender and if it can manage to blood hunt his same capitol to summon 2-3 fiends. It happened to me in many games in maps with <150 provinces to get rushed. And you can't replace your loses even if you win at a good rate because your men costs 20 gold and 27/30 resources (don't look at humanbred light infantry, they die without doing nothing full stop).

This makes Abysya really weak in early stage, and is weak both in middle stage.
In late game if it has many devils and soul contracts could be well settled. But it has to survive.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

BWHAHAH! That's a good one. No, wait, you are not joking.

Whoa.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

I really can't believe some people. Even their argument seems so ludicrious it has to be a joke.

Then of course they are serious, which makes it even more puzzling.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Heat, obvisouly, is free points but while I take death, remember, it is still a blood nation and every death scale loss is one less slave.
I tend to take a strong dominion but yes, you are right, initially, you need to raise the heat levels from whatever their starting levels are. Of course, that also makes it hard for others to make use of the land if they take it from you.
They are expensive...but then you also have more design points which generally translates into more magic/income.
Have you ever used Abyssian Infantry ? No offense, I ask this because if you use them, they are some of my favorite HI out there. They are morale 11 (not 10, the humanbred are 10) with 18 prot. Best of all, they have a heat aura and are immune to heat.
What are you getting rushed by ? HI alone should serve you pretty well. If you are rushed by someone elses pretender SC, you should expect to use yours but that's true of any nation, pretty much.

They are slow to replace, especially if you only have one recruitment point. Still, they are tough, have heat aura and are immune to friendly 'fire'.
I don't think any blood nation is weak in the middle game, when you can get ID's and AD's and such out faster (IE, sooner) than almost any other SC, except maybe Bane Lords.
I actually think they are weakest in the late game, where the narrowness of their magic limits them.

That's just my take, anyway.

- Kel

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Cohen, stop hijacking every thread with your pet peeve of the day. If it
is not about puny, weak Abysya, it is about bad, overpowered Caelum. You
are not the ultimate authority on balance, and frankly, I think your
opinion is totally worthless, because you lose your games through sheer
arrogance and aggressive expansion, not through weakness in your race.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Weak? You might want to try playing a different nation if you think Abysia is weak. They are one of the best nations for raw power out there.

No, they don't cost a lot at all. Apprentice warlocks cost 150 gold. Most other 2/1 mages cost 140 gold. Warlocks cost 270 gold for S2B3?1. Black sorcerors cost 250 gold for F2E2D1?1. Panii cost 350 gold for E2N3?1. Neither of those two are fire immune.

They have morale of 11 and have enough priests to make it a non-issue.

No, they would defend with 30-40 Abysian infantry with morningstars and anathemant dragons and salamanders..

Sure you can. You can built 7 or 8 per turn.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Seriously, Cohen... if you think Abysia is so damn weak, how come you never play anything else?

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

I'm playing a game with Arco, another with Pythium, another with Man, another with Caelum.

I like Abysya.
But I find other nations I'm trying stronger than Aby.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

My apologies, Cohen. I stand corrected.

Re: I love Arcos!!!
 

Wow I thought by now we knew that nothing is very weak and nothing is very strong. Everything has plenty of power when played by someone who isnt trying to force it into a some other strategy/tactic method of play.

Abysia weak early? A race which can operate so well in a powerfully harsh dominion? Surely an extreme heat scale and powerful dominion push makes early Abysia able to hold its own.