Newbie Game
 

Lo All, I'd like to start up a PBW game for newbies. And when I say newbies I mean NEWBIES... like me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anywho the concept is a stock game (no mods) running a galactic edge map (size is up for debate and dependant on # of responses) with 5000 racial points so peeps can play their coolest races. Unique shipsets so that we know who is who. Relativly new players only so that we dont get chewed up and spit out by the hardcore PBW gamers that have been doing this for ages.

Reasons: well most of the new games on the PBW site are either setup to run a mod, some wierd some not so wierd but still not what interests me. Or they don't want inexperienced players which automatically counts me out. Taking over an open slot is just inheriting Other Peoples Problems which doesnt sound like much fun to me so I decided that the best route to go would be a new game and see how many like minded newbies I can attract with me. So.... any takers?

-Arakiel

Re: Newbie Game
 

I'm "relatively new"... but I think I'm rather good, so I
don't know if you want me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

All the stuff I know can be summarized in the following sentences. Avoid missiles like the plague, get point defense and military science II early, get mines II early, light carriers are awesome warships early on, get DUC V early, use PPB's mid-game, don't fall behind in research, expand like mad early on, make sure your race can build a colonizer on emergency build on your homeworld in one turn, and Last but most important make sure you max-min your race like Asmala does lol (see links below). Okay, so the above was a run-on sentence, so sue me lol.

I'll give you the links that I've read about so far...
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/mod...page&pid=1

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/mod...etit&lid=1

http://newbiefaq.spaceempires.net/

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbup...ategyGuide.zip

And of course the mother
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

Brian

Re: Newbie Game
 

Dang...after reading that min/maxing article I have to redesign my favorite race again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif man there are so many details to this game its great...easy to get lost in...but great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

OK so we have 1 ... i'm thinking we need at least 5 humans for a viable game so anyone else?

Re: Newbie Game
 

Well... I guess it depends on what kind of game you want. If you want a really competitive game... or you want to RP... or something in the middle... in a couple of my games that I took over, I'm nowhere near the top and I'm having fun... but max/minning is fun at least in the beginning. Also I think that there are ways to fit in racial traits... if Asmala can max/min his race and include crystallurgy, why not organics/temporal/religious? Makes the game more interesting than everybody having a bezerker race. Also, the merchant type race seems interesting, more variety and you can do without space ports!

Re: Newbie Game
 

Merchants are overpriced.

Re: Newbie Game
 

hrm are you talking about the "natural merchants" racial ability, or the merchants society type? "natural merchants" isn't as cool as advance storage, hardy industralists and propulsion experts... but if you can do without the extra 1 move point, which is miniscule considering that ships stop when they warp into new systems, isn't merchants okay?

Re: Newbie Game
 

You can avoid ships stopping in new systems. Just order them to move to the center of the unexplored system after giving them the order to warp through the warp point...

Re: Newbie Game
 

how do you do that when the system is marked "unexplored"?

Re: Newbie Game
 

Select the system and give move to orders to the middle of it. Clicking anywhere near the middle will suffice. You probably dont even need to give warp orders for the warp point, but I am not sure if the game adds that to the order queue for unexplored systems or not. Easy enough to test, just give the move order and hit v, to look at the order queue.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Is one extra facility space in each system really worth 1000 points?

Re: Newbie Game
 

Well I like to have an efficient race and some of the items posted in that article I didn't even know about (like adv storage effecting facilities as well as cargo...i thought it was just cargo space). I don't fully agree with everything in the article, I tend to think that the adv supply usage is handy for extra range until you finally get quantum reactors and the racial traits can be neat if your playing a race where it makes some sense but overall the article was great.

BTW Imperator, thanks for that tip on sending ships into unknown space, I didn't know you could do that either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

Sure it is, it saves you three turns to build the space port. That's three turns times 500 research, you're 1500 research ahead! lol now that I think of it, maybe not. And from what I have read, one extra move point can mean the difference between moving first and moving Last -- or not moving at all lol. Guess its advance storage, hardy industralists and propulsion experts all the way. And perhaps organics, although you'll take a hit in your overall stats... but the organic armor is too good to pass up lol.

Brian

Re: Newbie Game
 

I have been playing SE since SE II came out so Space Empires is a familiar gam but I have never played Online...

I would be interested in playing a game at something like 1 turn every 2 days where I could learn playing Online... but as I said - not exactly new just untried in Human Competition.


Rasorow

Re: Newbie Game
 

Well, Arakiel, here's a suggestion. If you want to get the game going relatively quickly (once you actually start the game, that is) make the tech cost low. That way, research for the more advanced techs costs less, and you all get to the higher tech levels sooner, which can make things more exciting. But then again, some players can fall behind in tech quicker that way, and makes recovering a little tougher. Just a suggestion.

Also, I've been in PBW for less than a year, and in the 10 games I'm in, I'm in the Last 1/2 to 1/4 in score in every single one (I think). So if you don't mind someone with a little more experience playing, I'd be quite happy to play. However, I will totally understand if you don't want someone with a bit more experience playing. Your choice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

The advanced supply usage trait is not worth the same as a trait such as advanced storage techniques or hardy industrialists. I would never take it over one of those traits. It can certainly be handy, but there are more powerful ways to spend your points. Just research Astrophysics, then Stellar Harnessing. You get solar collectors, which are even better at extending your range. A few solar collector ships in each fleet go a very long way (make sure to have more supply storage on the ship in question than the collectors can generate in a turn so that they may function to maximum potential). Before you get solar collectors, build supply ships that are filled with supply bays. A few of those in a fleet can easily boost the range significantly. Sticking a repair bay on supply ships makes them even more useful. Also, sticking 1 supply bay on all ships LC and larger increases their range by 17% right there, and will eliminate the huge vulnerability of one or two ionic disperser shots disabling your warships with impunity.

Assuming you refer to the tech traits (organic, temporal, etc.), note that the article does not say they are useless or bad, just that they do not fit into the min-maxing scheme. They are more of an art than a science/math exercise. Take them if you like, and the rest of your points can be min-maxed.

Organic armor is only strong in the early game. As the game progresses and fleet sizes get larger, it is uncommon for more than a ship or two to survive an entire round once it comes under fire and be able to regenerate. Well, it has to survive even more rounds since no pool of regenerative points is built up before any organic armor components are lost anymore... Certainly, some will be able to regenerate, but most will not. Shields provide a much better defense, as they give you many more raw hit points. There is something to be said about using organic armor and weaponry to balance out the resource costs of your ships to get fast build rates, but your ships will be a lot weaker individually. It is a fine balancing act...

Re: Newbie Game
 

I'll join http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And may I suggest Devnull mod to make things more interesting than Stock? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

I'm completely dazed and confused by the game right now.
I'm beginning to see some light, I think.
I've been beaten twice by the ai so far.

I'll give Online play a try, just remember that I'm really NEW!!!

Re: Newbie Game
 

ok so it looks like we have a group of people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

so far i see:
brianeyci
Rasorow
Renegade 13
Sivran
Salient
and myself
did i miss anyone?

To make sure everybody gets what they are hoping for out of the game lets talk settings...

Galaxy Size/Type?
Any Restrictions?
Tech Levels?
Homeworld Value, #, etc?
AI Empires?
Any Mod?

Personally I usually play in a large map against the AI but that's my opinion and im not sure if that would take too long to get going in Online play. Only restriction I can think of is that we all use different shipsets so we know who is who (usually). As for mods. i'm not thrilled with the idea but not totally against it if the group thinks it would make the game more fun. So what do you all think?

-Arakiel

Re: Newbie Game
 

Stock game is fine by me, large galaxy is also ok.
A few neutral AI empires could be fun.

And lots of diplomacy between the players!

Re: Newbie Game
 

I would suggest 3 homeworlds, in order to get things going faster. Also, in my opinion, it's a lot more fun if there are no AI's in the game. They tend to really mess people up, and will not honor alliances, etc. We'd probably end up just ganging up on them and wiping them out as early as possible, so what's the point??

Low tech cost would get the game going quickly as well (makes researching new tech levels cheaper in research points) But I'm not sure if everyone would agree to that.

What do people think of these suggestions?

Re: Newbie Game
 

I'm interested.
I have only had the game a week, but I was planning to try PBW eventually.

Glyn

Re: Newbie Game
 

Cool beans Glyn!

Renegade 13 - You make good points, not sure I agree with the low tech approach though. Sounds like it would get going faster but also get out of control faster with everybody running around using Baseships oDoom.

If we do go without AI then I think we need a smaller map, otherwise it could be quite awhile before we meet other players. Although with 3 homeworlds that may get offset a bit.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Baseships are evil! Beware of them, as they may not be so great in some circumstances (well, they do shine when battles come down to a contest of numbers). But I should not digress so.

Low tech means tech costs go in a linear way, rather than in an expontential growth (or geometrical; I am not sure if there is actually a difference here) as with Normal and High cost. For example, Shields X costs 100,000 research points with low tech cost (starting cost of 10,000 times the wanted level of 10), while they would cost no less than 500,000 research points with Medium tech cost and 1,000,000 points with High tech cost.

In the JJPEAR game (low tech cost), all Empires had reached full tech more or less around turn 100, including some of the most useless technologies ever allowed to see the daylight. To the best of my knowledge, there had been few treaties and trades in this game, and none of the Empires seemed to have gone with a full "tech junkie" approach. So you should expect high-end technology to become available very early in a low tech cost game, especially if there are players loving research in the game.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Do we want a long slow game or a more fast paced one?

Myself, I'm more than willing to commit myself to a very long game.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Faster....

3 homeworlds is cool

Low tech is great

Good value homeworlds

mid lvl race points?

Stock game please...

No AI

My 2 cents

Rasorow

Re: Newbie Game
 

You're very right. It may be better to have a normal tech cost game, rather than a low cost. Really, I don't care a whole lot either way, I'll be quite happy to play either way. And yes, if we go with the no AI thing, a smaller galaxy would get us in contact with each other at a quicker pace.

As for a slow paced, or fast paced game, either one is good with me, as I will play the entire game through, no matter what. (Unless something catastrophic occurs, in which case I'd have to drop out. But that's very unlikely). I look forward to playing with you all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

So, does it mean you fully expect to win the game, or at least to survive until the end of the game? Otherwise, how would you be able to play "the entire game through"? Granted, you seem to do quite well at survival; at the rates things are going in NGC4, you will become the third most powerful Empire in the universe. Sorry, I couldn't resist making that pointless comment. Yes, I will be leaving now.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Hmmm, no I meant that I'll play the game through until I'm totally destroyed, which likely will happen quite quickly! Ah, NGC4...survival I can do, but I don't seem to be powerful enough to be able to do much more than merely survive. 3rd most powerful? Very unlikely, although possible. I wish I was as optimistic as you are!

Re: Newbie Game
 

Actually, you are already the fifth most powerful Empire in the galaxy Renegade. The only major powers remaining alive are the Collective, Granagh, Teal, and Manticore. Aether Lords are somewhat weakened, and above all under the rule of the Collective, and so I would put your Empire above the Aether Lords.

Since Teal and Granagh are likely to go against the Collective (or the other way around), it will leave either Granagh/Teal as major powers (I wish), or Collective/Manticore, thus making you the third most powerful Empire in the galaxy. Obviously, once one of the big two alliances has slaughtered the other pair, you will not stay for long as "third most powerful Empire in the galaxy". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

Now that I look at it your way, its does make some sense. However, in getting to be the 3rd most powerful, you're assuming that I do not join Teal/Granagh or Collective/Manticore against the others. For if I do join one of the big 2 alliances, I will likely be wiped out early on, and thus will only make it to 5th spot!

Also, Last turn when I looked at my score, it showed me as being in 8th position. If you count me above the Aether Lords, and (presumably) above yourself, that only puts me into 6th. Although there may be some other empires around that I'm not aware of, and are higher than me in score, but less powerful.

But we are digressing, this was not to be the original subject of this thread. My apologies Arakiel for hijacking it. Feel free to return it to its orginal purpose. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

Any more news on this ??

Re: Newbie Game
 

Hey all, sorry for my silence this weekend but my cable modem went Kaplooie so I was without internet. I'll catch up on the thread in a bit.

Re: Newbie Game
 

OK, we aren't getting much feedback so I'm going to assume that folks aren't too bothered by the game settings whatever they are. Here's what I'm planning on setting up based upon the feedback so far:

Map - Galaxy Edge, Medium Size
Racial points - 5000
Starting resources - Mid
3 Planets, Good value
No AI's
Tech Cost...I see both sides of the discussion and really don't care that much myself. Since we have 2 votes in favor of low tech I'll plan on setting low tech cost.

Anything else you folks want to see?

Re: Newbie Game
 

Sounds good to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

K i've opened the game on PBW. I'm at work so I can't do much more then that right now...besides I need to write up a good history for my race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You can find it on PBW as "Shattered Hopes" after a Neverwinter Nights PW I was part of....ahh the good old days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

Here's a suggestion :

A friend of mine runs a small quiet forum dedicated to the discussion of all sorts of games. How about we start our own thread there so we could use it for this game, diplomacy and politics,ingame events and empire Messages could all be discussed and posted there.
Here's the link to the place. All you guys would have to do is register.

Anyway, thought it would be a good idea to have our own space for this kinda stuff and the place is perfect for it.

If you all agree I could go over there and get our thread started.

As for the game I would suggest no tech trading,only one partnership allowed and that the game leader would place us as far apart as possible, especially in a medium sized galaxy.

Thanks again to Arakiel for starting this, really looking forward to it!!

Thanks again to Ar

Re: Newbie Game
 

I'm pending to join. Yihaa, my first PBW game!

My only concern is the size of the galaxy, isn't medium a bit small using the stock game?

It's eventually your call Arakiel, but I would prefer a large galaxy, especially if we get a lot of players.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Hi Salient

as near as i can tell we get a private forum for the PBW game on the PBW site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I like your idea of spreading people out, however since I'll be playing as well I think I'll let the puter place us in a spread out fashion since otherwise i'd have inside knowledge of the game map and although I *could* say that i'll just ignore it...why have the stigma http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Not sure how to enforce no tech trading and 1 partnership, or is that more of an "honor system" type of thing?

Re: Newbie Game
 

On a private note ... w00t! my first star.

oh... and Glyn and Salient have been approved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie Game
 

Yep that would be code among the players.

Letshope that the puter spreads us out as far as possible!

Didn't know about the forum space per game, that's cool!

Re: Newbie Game
 

"Good old days" indeed... I went to level 20 a few times, level 18 cleric/1 fighter/1 monk. Basically a character with the BAB of a fighter, who could cast powerful cleric spells and dish out tons of damage with dual wielded kamas and 60 AC lol. Max/minning to the extreme. Only thing that could really match that would be a level 20 pure sorcerer or level 20 pure wizard...

This new game should be fun, will join as soon as I have an empire ready.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Starwood applied and got accepted...don't see him on the thread but *shrug* the more the merrier. 'Lo Starwood!

Re: Newbie Game
 

With a turn duration of 24 hours, it might be best to add the No AI mod. It will prevent the AI from messing up players, if they miss a turn. With it, any player without a plr file will simply continue on whatever they were doing Last turn.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Since I'm not sure the shipset I want to use is on the PBW site, it would be handy if everyone in the game could download the TAERA HIVE shipset from here.
Look under "hosted shipsets".


Btw, tell me where I can find the shipsets you guys are using so I can get them as well!
I'm guessing this is the safest thing to do for everyone.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Don't need the "no ai" mod to do this... there's a way to create your empire with "no ai"... its in the dubious strategy guide in the link I posted earlier... it involves downloading some files and extracting them. I am not sure, but I think the files were posted by Geoschemo in an older forum (could someone post the link to the archived old forum?).

Then when you make your empire, you can choose AI minister "none" type rather than "neutral" "agressive" or "defensive"... there is also an option in the uh options menu while you are playing a turn "let AI make no changes during a simultaneous game"... although you'd have to set up your research and ship queues ahead of time if it literally means "no changes"...

Brian

Re: Newbie Game
 

If you upload an Empire file before you upload the shipset to PBW, there will be problems... you have to upload the shipset to PBW for sure before uploading your empire. I think the only way to fix the problem is to withdraw from the game, and rejoin the game again! Otherwise, people will not see your shipset properly, and maybe you won't either...

When you go to the PBW page, the shipsets are listed under the little icons, the one that looks like a ship on top of a green grid... do the icons show up for you? Do you have java installed? Try the non-graphical page.

Brian

Re: Newbie Game
 

Anyone have any experience with this NO AI mod that Sivran is talking about? I haven't seen it. If the PBW can handle it without the need for a MOD like Brain is talking about I think I'd rather go that route.

I'm planning on uploading my shipset to PBW so that it's always there, its basically just a slightly modified Version of TeraC's SEV set.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Brianeyci,

I double checked thanks to Ragnarok's tip and found that the shipset I want to use is on the PBW site, but under a different name (TAERA Republic instead of TAERA hive), so it should be ok.

Thanks

Re: Newbie Game
 

Empire uploaded.

Re: Newbie Game
 

Fortuantely, to avoid having the AI mess things up, all you have to do is this: Immediately after opening your first turn, go into the empire status window (the yellow crown icon), go the the "ministers" option, scroll down and find the option "AI should not make changes to the empire to a Simultaneous Game". Select this option, and no matter how many turns are missed, the AI shouldn't make any changes. This is a lot easier than using the No AI mod and is quite simple to do. As long as you remember to do it!!