Unusual Population Types
 

All right, I'd be interested in knowing if anybody here has seen the following population types for indie provinces in-game:

• Vaettir: vaetti, wolf rider, moose riders + Chief
• Vaettir: vaetti wolf rider, moose riders + Chief, Vaetti Hag, Dwarven Smith
• Vaettir: vaetti, wolf rider, moose riders + Chief, Vaetti Hag, Svartalf
• Asmeg + Asmeg Jarl
• Trolls: Troll, War Troll, Troll Moose Knight + Troll King
• Tritons: Guard, Trooper, Knight + Lord
• Any kind of Mermen

If you have, sing out. I think I've seen the Triton poptype that includes triton knights (scarier even than shark knights), but I've never encountered the others. All of the above poptypes actually exist, but I'm not sure if they suffer from the same bug that crystal amazons previously did (and hence they would not appear), or if IW has consciously decided to not activate them or has made them so rare that you will almost never see them.

I think the troll kingdom poptype is inactive, because troll king at least has a 0 resource cost (150 gold, though) when it should be the same as war troll's 37 (same equipment). Asmeg are probably another inactive poptype, as are mermen (there is just one merman poptype afaik).

If these poptypes are all inactive (except the triton knights, which became active in patch 2.14, from what I've seen, I've seen them twice since 2.14, but never before), would the developers be kind enough to tell us when or if they will be made active and how rare they are supposed to be?

And if they're inactive because of a bug like the crystal amazons were, can we get them activated in the next patch?

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

The trolls and vettir might not be used by default, but you can use them in customized maps (for instance, the DovregubbensHall map variant that's included with my daily random maps.)

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I know, I actually found them out by assigning the poptypes to provinces that did not have numbers listed in the mapedit.pdf, and then went outside the range given there (25-68). It's curious, because the poptype with basic trolls, vaetti and wolf riders IS active (but very rare), so why not the others? Or at least the one without mage commanders available?

Thing is, I'm interested in possible sightings, and finding them requires a huge sample of games and provinces. I've seen the basic trolls all of three times through dozens of games, and if the others are even rarer, it could be that even experienced people had not been lucky.

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I've seen mermen a couple of times

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I've seen one kind of merman, triton guards and triton troopers(And possibly lords).
Aren't trolls only made available via special sites? Also, what's an Asmeg?

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I've seen Triton guy, if you mean "shark" knights ...

And 2 times Mermen too.

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I have triton knights(those guys with flying and recuperation) and shark knights in one game on the faerun map. There are also several indie underwater sites with ~10 sea trolls and a kraken.

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Apparently the merman poptype is active then, though rare. Triton guards and troopers, as well as shark knights are all part of regular, active triton poptypes, most of them just aren't listed in the map editing manual. Triton lord is the generic triton leader available in all such provinces.

Trolls can be recruited from Troll Pit, but they are also native population for two different poptypes (one has vaetti, the other is purely trolls, and the one I listed above).

An Asmeg is a Vanheim giant (kind of). The Vanheim and Jotunheim nation descriptions refer to a war between the Rimtursar and Aesir. Asmeg are descendants of the Aesir, not quite as big and powerful as Jotun giants, but very nice nonetheless. Their leaders have air and holy magic. Take a look at the Asynja pretender for Vanheim and extrapolate regular units modeled after it, that's you standard Asmeg.

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Are those units just site guards, or can you recruit sea trolls from the province? If you can't, they don't count for the purposes of this thread. The triton knights were recruitable, weren't they?

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

triton knights are recruitable. Haven´t conquered those sea troll provinces yet, but as far as I know you always get to recruit the guarding troops unless it is a special site.

I just checked the game again and one thing is strange: I have two provinces where I can recruit shark knights, one of those has the shrine of the shark lords, which says: "Can recruit shark knight" here.

The interesting thing is: In that province I can recruit the triton knights. So it seems to me that maybe shark and triton knights got switched, because I should not be able to recruit shark knights in provinces without that special.

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Shark knights are recruitable from at least one site. However, they are also native population for one population type, so you can have them from either source. So looks like you got a triton knight pop province with shark knights as site recruitables.

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

About the poptypes not listed in the mapedit doc, I've noted :

Poptype
62 Tribal archer (ID123) warrior (124)
Barbarian Chief (141)
63 Tritons (as poptype 31 + triton guard id175)
64 Triton Guard (175), Trooper (517)
Lord (406)
65 Ichtid (974) Ichtid Warrior (975)
66 Vaetti (541) WRider (282) MooseRider (1085)
67 Vaetti (541), Wolf Riders (282), Moose Riders (1085)
Vaetti Chief (283) Hag (913) Dwarven Smith (323)
69 Asmeg (1001)
Asmeg Jarl (1002)
70 Vaetti (id541), Wolf Riders (282), Moose Riders(1085)
Vaetti Chief (283) Hag (913) Svartalf (1010)
71 Troll (518), War Troll (1037)
Troll King (519)
72 Merman (1065)
Merman Cptain (1067)
73 Triton Guard (175), Trooper (517), Knight (1050),
Lord (406)
74 Old Centurion (0)
75+ humans

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

There is a complete list of poptypes and what units are in which poptype in the Unit_ID.xls file you can find on Arryn's site. I made that document, so I'm quite familiar with the poptype issue, and that's why I made the thread.

However, 75+ are not poptypes at all. The range of poptypes runs from 25 to 73, with 74 an unusable template one (that's what seems to be anyway. Assigning 75+ to poptype results in a random poptype being assigned to the province from the possible ones for that terrain. Same if the poptype assignment is lower than 25.

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I'm sure I've seen vaetti recruitable once in single player. I'm pretty sure it was on Orania.

odd_enuf

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Edi,

On Orania I've seen all the various triton types, and mermen, in the same game. The triton (shark) knights I saw prior to 2.14, BTW (I started the game at 2.12). I've not been paying attention to the other pop types, so I cannot say about the landlubbers.

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Arryn, there are two types of triton knights: Shark Knights and Triton Knights. The latter ride sea unicorns, have an alicorn attack and recuperation, and I haven't seen those until post-2.14. The Shark knights have been available all along. I haven't seen mermen ever, but that's due to statistical probabilities and sample size, apparently.

Odd_enuf, do you remember which type of vaetti it was? Just vaetti, vaetti and trolls, or one of the two vaetti + dwarves combos?

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Yeh, I've seen the Shark Knights - my squid squad wound up with -1 losses and the acquisition of one in a province. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gifBelieve it was 1.12 at the time.

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

if i remeber corectly, it was vaetti, wolf riders, and trolls

odd_enuf

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Yeah, that's the active one, always has been. The other three and the all-trolls poptype are not, afaik.

Edi

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

Okay. I've checked all my games again and I don't see the Triton Knights. However, I have one Orania game that (so far) has two mermen provinces. Guess the sea unicorns don't like me since I'm not a virgin, but I have an affinity for merfolk, as I (much like a siren) enjoy leading folks astray. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Unusual Population Types
 

I have a couple of Triton Knights in a current pbem game right next to my starting province. It was started under 2.12.

Those sea-horses are cute. Which doesn't mean I am a virgin, either. My pretender might be.