What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Well my internet is still down despite my phone line being up. Hopefully it will be back soon. So I post a question that probably has been discussed time and time again. But I ask it anyway.

What is your weapon of choice in stock SE:IV? Do you stick with DUC's and get high levels of ECM and Combat Sensors? (This seems to be the most preferred way). Or do you like the shield-skipping power of PPB's? Maybe you like Meson BLasters? Or perhaps you like some form of unique combination, like tractor/ripper/repulse.

Of course different times in the game dictate different weapon prevalence. Hopefully this thread turns into a good strategy thread about weapon selection. I am most interested in unique weapons combinations... I read something about a null space combo, what is that?

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Well here is my justification. In all the games I am in, I have gone DUCV. I see PPB's as the best potential mid-game weapon when considering the damage ratio... and I need physics II for stellar harnessing anyway! In the only game which is in a late stage, my APB damage goes through the roof when compared with anything else.

Brian

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Actually hehe I'm not sure if physics II is necessary for stellar harnessing... maybe astrophysics. Physics II only gives you scanners which you get with Military Science II (Hyper-Optics) anyway... so if you go PPB's, you'd better be sure to go all the way.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

And who chose missiles? How can you use missiles effectively early game, given that a couple point-defense cannons can make your ships harmless? I don't know what most people do, but I usually go military science early if I have the chance... opens up point defense and military science II later for fleet and ship training http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Brian

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Heh. I thought you were talking about real-world weapons for some reason when I saw the title.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

You are in a tough Category! Your poll doesn't provide enough choices, I think, and I don't know how to do it better.

Problem is, early game location can dictate what your choice will be. Aside from all that, games start with 1 planet, 3, 5, or 10. THAT can make quite a difference in early game choice (where someone might skip DUCs). Then, there is the full-tech games...which all have an early part. So....you get my drift.

But, in general, I've heard it said that PPBs can be a weapon to use the entire game! And while some really like APBs, I hate them (unless I have the Talisman). They are darned expensive to research to surpass the PPBs. And without the Talisman (given all ships/fleets are trained), darn hard to hit from ship to ship at full range (so why bother?).

Also, you missed my favorite weapon! Those who play me know if I can get them I'll put Ripper 1V's on a ship that can close in on you fast in a heartbeat! Pound for pound, there aren't many that beat it. Not to mention rigging them on a large sat with extended range! Someone has a proggy out that does an extensive analysis of the weapons and the Rippers did quite well.

So, my 2 cents worth.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I use a combination of three to five types including Torepedoes, Anti proton beams, phased beam, missles, mid way I use alot of ship capture tech.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Mines are best early.

Usually when lots of sweepers show up, PPBs take over.

Late I like the Wave Motion gun with a couple of massive TDBs to take down the shields first.

Of course, this seems to work better during tactical combat.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

You overlook fleet stacking. That is where the range 8 comes into play as compared to range 6 PPBs and MBs (and range 5 DUCs). I thought we covered this in the Last round of these discussions? APBs are one of the most efficient weapons, once past the research costs, which is part of what makes them so powerful in the later stages of the game... Unless you give your ships max range strategy without having a significant advantage in combat bonuses, there really aren't any glaring weaknesses of APBs, except possibly against huge crystalline armored ships...

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

While the older players have been over this, some of the newer ones havn't, and they may come up with something that hasn't been thought of.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I use only DUC's as they are the besta weapon in the whole gosh darn game. Golly Gee.

Trop's, And APB's for me.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Yes, fleet stacking is the obvious reason why to choose APB's...

I actually am more interested in finding out what situations certain weapons would be useful in. Like, when would it be preferable to research a Meson BLaster rather than Anti-Proton Beam?

I looked at torps earlier, and concluded that the only reason why you would want to use torps would be for the negligible cost decrease.

Share your secrets gentlemen. I am especially interested in knowing combinations of weapons people use on ship designs.

For example, to me, missiles seem useless. Two point-defense cannons on every ship gets rid of the missile problem... or does it? How much dmg resistance are the higher level missiles, and would it be enough to overcome the one to two PD's most people put on their ships? Colonel, if you could post a couple useful missile ship designs (light cruiser and battlecruiser preferably)... thx.

Brian

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Umm... that statement was directed solely at Slynky, who said pretty much the same things Last time... No need to take it out of context to mean something it did not.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Ok, sorry, my brain is fried for some reason. Possibly fiberglass fumes. How to turn cheap pLastic weapons into things you can spar with, real life lessons 101.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Well, in the early part of most games, I go for DUC 5's. On a light cruiser, along with a PD cannon or two, this is very effective until higher level weapons and shielding come into play.

For mid-game situations, I like the Phased Polaron Beam, with again, a couple of PD cannons. By this time (by the time I have cruisers or battlecruisers) I like to have level 3 combat sensors and ECM on my ships, also armor to provide the extra defense bonus. Shiels are still usually Shields 5 (not phased).

By the time I have a lot of the tech researched, I usually stick a couple PD cannons, 2 shield depleters, and fill the rest up with Anti-Proton Beam XII's. This combination works wonders for me, and usually is a match for the best ship designs.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

A heavy mounted Ionic Disperser works wonders against people that neglect a supply storage component (or quantum reactor) on their ships.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

We have discussed this before.

Torps are a great tool when coupled with the strategy Maximum Weapons range.

In one game a player used APB's and Torps as primary weapons in a small fleet of about 30 BC and wiped the board against a fleet of superior BS + DN with PPB's because his ships had the range to fire. They fired first and the rest is history.

(Coupled with 115% Agg/Def with 10% fleet and Ship training with the EMC - Scattering Armor - Combat sensors - and such.

Both fleets were evenly matched in all regards except one used PPB's Optimal range with more ships, the other APB's and Torps at Max range.

Simulation after simulation showed the PPB fleet obliterating the APB/Torp fleet but when actual combat occured, it was the APB/Torp fleet that won.

Tnarg, CNC, were in on the game as well. I honestly don't recall the other three players. Was a brillent game though. One of the Star Trek ones.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Does Torpedoes have some accuracy bonus which is not mentioned anywhere? THis has been debated time and again in this forum, but I don't remember if anyone has provided a clean ansver to that. That is about only reason I can think a torpedo fleet to win against PPB or APB fleet if other ways equally matched.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I wish I could find the thread where we discussed strategies. But following the Forum update all links are significantly frelled.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Nope, they do not get a bonus.
Everything else being equal, the PPB and APB fleets would win most of the battles. If one side manages, through ship placement, to get of a significant salvo against the other side first, then they'd win.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

So torpedoes are good for defending warp points, then? Hmmm...
edit: also for use on weapons platforms, bases, and satellites, I guess, since they can get range bonuses...

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Torpedoes only have accuracy bonuses in mods.

With the reload, you may be able to jump out of weapons range while reloading, thus negating the enemy's ROF advantage.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Nice to see I'm consistent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I do OK with my weapon choices (haven't had enough losses to the APB "freaks" to make me change my mind). I just wish Rippers could target fighters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I personally tend to research heavily in defense (shields, armor, PDC) and towards PPB until I meet my first opponent. I found that PPB's can hold there own against just about anything in early games; most empires haven't made it to phased shields yet and I always play low-tech start games.

Then my research / weapon of choice frequently changes based on what my opponent is using, racial techs, fighters or not, missles or not, etc.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Only have played single player games (the qualification) but I have found a mix of weapons works nicely.

Main - APB/Torps

Support - Wave Motion or other Heavy first strike damage

Defense - all Point Defense with 2 Meson BLasters (the program makes you run away if you only mount all point defense weapons - even if the ship's purpose is to destroy seekers and fighters - GRRRRRRR)

A battlefleet has 6-8 main 2-4 support and 2-4 defense. Mains are Dreads and Battleships, supports are battleships and battlecruisers (sometimes dreads) and defense are destroyer and Light Cruiser.

This type of fleet/weapon mix can generally handle Carriers and Dreads with nothing but seekers without a problem. (the AI seems to love those)

I find that if I can hit hard enough on the first salvo (which my heavy hitters being smaller ships will survive to attack) then I dont really need to worry about they fight. Of course this assumes equal tech lvls but the computer has yet to out research me.

Rasorow

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I like my little polymer S&W .380 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif

Pro - Light, thin, smooth profile. Utterly reliable. Good accuracy at short range.

Con - Not a lot of stopping power, needs careful shot placement to be effective. Questionable accuracy at ranges over 15 yards.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

You're right about the stopping power. I carry a Baretta .380 (14-1). Magazine is loaded alternating with 3 kinds of rounds: hollow jacket, slug, then a "Blue Safety" slug (check it out if you never heard of it...it has a spread on it that's awesome) and then repeated.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

What good are Mason BLasters any ways? I mean I have NEVER used them because they are sooooooo weak and clearly serve no purpose.

And for stopping power, I prefer my Taurus 357. http://www.taurususa.com/imagesThumbs/T_608B4.jpg
Great stopping power, no shell ejection for CSI to find, great accuracy, 8 shots so stupid criminals stand up after 6 shots and act all bad *** "Your out of ammo dude!" BOOOOM! "I think not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif." And it is far more intimidating than a puny 9mm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

They are cheap and do good damage at max range. Great for Talisman races before they go for APBs.
Even without the talisman, they can significantly outperform PPBs (against phased shields) if you factor in cost.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Thanks. I had no idea. Wow, you learn something new every day.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

The big problem of the Meson BLasters is that they are outgunned compared to the latest APBs, while being slightly more expensive. So you either go directly for the APB (APB VII isn't so much behind MB VI if memory serves, and costs less in research), or have to do additional research to get the Meson BLasters before heading for your regular APBs.

If they had one or two more levels bringing them above the APB, I would certainly consider them to be a viable option for range-6 fighting. As it stands, they lack a bit of a punch, and have a narrow window where you can use them at your advantage.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I would be interesting is the APB's were crap for short range and the MB filled the void.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

NUKE! you only need to be close! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

There was a computerized pistol displayed in the newspaper a few years back that could fire 700 rounds a >second<.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Yes but the all out will kill ya if the bLast wave doesn't.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

In effectiveness, the Meson BLaster VI is about even with the APB X. I think the choice is between what to use in the mid-game -- PPB or MB or APB. Late game is all APB, since it is cheapest and strongest. The research savings you get by going for APBs instead of MB or PPB is a valid concern, but by late-game standards, not too much. Which is to say you'd probably get to APB XII around the same time, regardless if you research MBs/PPBs first. MBs leave you stronger in the mid game. APBs give you a slight head start in the end game. PPBs probably beat out MBs as a mid-game weapon, unless you don't have the rads for it.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

It is true enough that there is little difference between the three weapons; so long as you do something useful with them, they will all get the job done. Going straight for APB gives a lead of a few turns (three perhaps?), which is unlikely to matter much. After all, a MB/PBB user should research the first few levels of APB in the meantime, given how cheap these are.

The strength of the APBs I have forgotten to mention is their added range compared to PPB/MB (from APB VII or VIII; I don't recall which). If you have half-decent chances to hit at range 7, mainly for lack of Stealth/Scattering Armour s, then having a better range can help. It isn't a game-breaking factor however; but then, few weapons choices can be argued to alter the course of a game.

To answer the original query: I go to DUC IV and then APB VII/VIII (the one with range 7) as soon as possible, unless I believe shields will be widely used early on. If nothing out of the ordinary happens, APB XII/Shield Depleters are standard afterwards, with eventually the Wave Motion Gun. If the Crystalline Armour and/or the Talisman are detected, the emergency plan is set into motion to try to save my hide, and all of the above is scrapped. Somehow, these Torpedoes sure look attractive when under attack by a Crystalline Empire.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Dunno if the above was a joke but... why use torpedoes when fighting a crystalline empire? Isn't the main advantage of using crystalline armor is that they can regenerate shields? So why not use PPB's, which go through shields, and nullify the shield/crystalline armor advantage?

Or how about shield depletion?

Brian

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

If you see a huge crystalline ship, neither shield depleters nor PPB's are going to answer the problem particularly well.

The shields will be phased, and the PPB's will just lower the shields. Then when you hit with a damaging weapon, the shields will go back up.

So, you want to hit it as hard as you can, so not all of your damage will turn into enemy shields.

PvK

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

(Starts to panic, how do I deal with asmala's crystalline battlecruisers?)

Hrm... why not use PPB's anyway? Don't they have the highest damage/kiloton ratio, or do torpedos have an advantage over that?

Brian

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Torpedo's do the most raw damage per hit you score. Therefore, against Crystalline races, a greater percentage of the total damage done goes against the hull and components, rather than reinforcing the shields. Wave Motion Guns would also be good for something like this.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Unless, of course, you alternate shield depleters with other weapons in the design. SD, APB, SD, APB, etc. Works decently. Better yet, get some Shield Disruptors. No need for any other types of weapons just because you face a crystalline enemy...

No. Don't forget that damage/kiloton/rate is a far more useful statistic than just damage/kiloton in most situations. Ripper Beam IIIs have the highest. The next if I recall correctly is the Telekinetic Projector VI (?). At least, at some range increments. APB XII comes next, except at one or two particular range increments, where PPB V is stronger. You can use this program by Suicide Junkie to get all sorts of stats on the weapons:

Weapon Stats

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

I think the PPB comes second (at range 6), just before the Meson BLaster/Telekinetic Projector (something like 2.1/2.0 respectively). At range 1, the APB should be second.

The problem with using Shield Depleters is that you need decent chances to hit for it to work. If you are fighting at range 7 or 8, you will seldom hit, making this strategy not too reliable. If you have good odds of hitting, the APB/SD/APB/SD design is perfectly good however. Shield Disruptors are nice enough, if you can get the research done, as they come later than the first Crystalline ships (with the regular 10 Crystalline Armour).

Contrary to what I thought, high-level of APBs work as well, so long as you get at close range (but Ripper Beams are better in this case). I think the heavy-mounted APB XII is above 150 damage per hit from range 5 or so, which will be enough to actually damage the Crystalline vessel. If you cannot get them in time, then Torpedoes or Baseships (be careful if the enemy is fighting at maximum range) should work out nicely for direct fighting. But I would prefer to avoid fighting altogether in this case, being a most courageous player.

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

My personal favourite would be a few sets of shield disrupters, then WMGs, then APBs. If a ship's got any shields left after a the SDs, the WMGs take care of that, and the APBs finish the job.
As for missiles, I'm play with a self-made mod where they are a lot more powerful, and also have their own set of mounts. A Massive Mount CSM will take out a Dreadnought with 1-2 hits.
But in the stock game, I only ever used missiles as a support weapon. I'd have a squadron of BCs usually, loaded to the gills with CSMs who would hang back and pummel the enemy from afar. The AI (and most players) doesn't put enough PDCs on their ships to deal with seriously heavy missile bombardment so they'd have to use other guns, and each one of those fired at a missile is one NOT fired at one of my ships. :-)
I also find a few CSM ships quite useful for bringing down Starbases. It can sometimes take a while but it keeps my ships out of the way of Massive Base Mount WMGs, coz those things hurt!

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

How? Afair missile's damage cannot be altered via mounts. Or I missed something?

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

Only PDCs can fire at missiles.

The solution to an enemy that uses a lot of missiles is to use the space yard ship you included in your fleet to retrofit all of your ships to use extra PDCs. Emergency build a space station with only repair bays if you need extra repair capability. Takes only a turn or two. This probably won't save the first fleet, but the others will slaughter the missle ships. If they stop using missiles, just retrofit the warships back to the orginal design. Takes even less time to repair than adding the PDCs, as there are 1/3 or so components to repair (depending on weapons used).

Re: What is the weapon of your choice, and Why?
 

The Idea is NOT to be in the area when you use it...like distroying a star, you do not put YOUR fleat there before it goes BANG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif