Dominions 3 Announced
 

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/News/pr_01.htm

A random map generator in nice (but not necessary). What I'd like to see is better AI. I find multi-player games take too long without forced hosting and it's too hard to keep up with games that force hosting. I want a better single-player experience and the best way (and the hardest from the developer's standpoint) is to improve spell casting AI, strategic AI, research AI, etc. Did I mention I want better AI?

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I assume you want a better AI as well, but I couldn't see you mention it.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I'd like battles to be resolved in real time, and perhaps a slightly more complex scripting for ordering your troops.

For example, being able to script conditional orders: e.g. mages will only cast the big artillery if the enemy army is of X size ro something like that.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Battles won't be resolved in realtime, and frankly I don't see why that would be an improvement.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

great JO!!! I really like turn based games! there are plenty of RTS ... I hope dom3 will be like dom2 but with some improvement .. so no needing of a super-mega-big computer to run, no need to be a spider moving on a keyboard to play well or to be able to see all the hundreds of things happening in the same time on your monitor hoping to have a 25" monitor to be able to see everything!

the only sad thing I can see in the coming out of dom3 is that probably I'll have to stop playing dom2 ... and dom2 is a so great game that I don't know how to stop playing it!

good play
Liga

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Ah, an anti-RTS snob http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I would suggest since you only have scripted control of the battle, real-time resolution would certainly be much better.

Let me give you some examples:

1) battles resolve faster becuase missile/spells go off as they occur (possibly simultaneously, and in conjunction with movement)
2) no more instantaneous flying to any part of the battelfield
3) no more "optimal placement" problem where you can rob charging units of the charge bonus by timing it so your units get the first attack.
4) less weirdnesses due to turn breaks and more precision... instead of quickness giving you two attacks on your turn, it would allow you to attack twice as quickly (for example), which I think you'll agree is a little more accurate.
5) it would LOOK better, although I agree this is below a tertiary consideration

Remember the absolutely classic game Centurion in the earlier days of PC gaming? Scripted real-time with some very limited direct control... it was beautiful.

Or the one really high point of Paradox's Legion: the scripted real-time battles. Albeit, could have been done better, but it was an excellent start.


If you really hate real time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif How about this instead: Break turns into impulses, ala star fleet battles. That would certainly be an improvement.

I might point out that the battle is already resolved in "real-time" for the viewer i.e. the battles run without breaks, you need to pause to gather information, so there would be no impact in terms of additional "business" for the viewer.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I would like to see some modularity for the AI in Dom3, specifically the main program calling an AI "module" or script that can be tinkered with by players. I think Space Empires IV is a good start, but really anything that would let players tinker with the decision trees by nation and "flavor". I think this would be a huge benefit for both players and illwinter, since the players would get better AI's and we'd help keep Kristofer from getting programmer burn out. I think this strategy has worked extremely well for maps, and would be a big benefit in the AI arena.

Also, regarding RTS. Please don't do that to Dominions. RTS games are so much about reflexes and so little about strategy and cunning.

PS. Another great example of using modules for AI control is the old tank game "omega".

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Where can I sign the "NO-RTS-DOM2"-movement? There's more than enough to serve RTS-fans IMHO...

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I am not (and would not be) suggesting that the game be made an RTS.

I am suggesting that the battles be resolved in real time. As they essentially are now but with the jarring and quirky turn breaks ironed out.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Not at all, I like several RTS games. I just don't think dominions would benefit much from it. I also agree with your points, they just seems like minor concerns.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

The big problem with real time battles is multiplayer. The host would have better speed, and both players would have to command their forces at the same time. And adding it for only singleplayer wouldn't be worth it, IMO, even though it would be nice.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I do not think Soapy wants to control it in real time. Just watch the resolution in realtime.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Correct http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Actually i am a big fan of the "hands off" battles approach, although I would enjoy some expanded scripting.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

What I'd like to see (NOT real time battles, one way or the other):

More precise battle scripting

Player customizability of the interface (shortcuts) and of orders (like, being able to define battle scripts and save them for future games).

Also, there are lots of UI improvements that are probably a huge chore to code, but that would make life easier for me. Hmm, here's one at random: being able to "save" pretender designs, and "load"/change them, would be a nice in-game plus...

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Ah, okay. I hadn't realized what Soapyrog meant. Sorry.

You know, I could like your idea... I would want to see it in effect first, though.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

more scripting possibilities, and something like 'cast spell x' as a standing order would be convenient too: more control, and less orders to enter.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

The turn based battles seem fine to me, if it isn't broken, don't fix it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Anyway, thanks for keeping a great series going.

EDIT: moved suggestions to wishlist thread.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

GIFTS FROM HEAVEN this is important. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

One of the greatest features lacking in almost every game is a challenging AI. There are several important decisions which could definitely improve the Artificial Intelligence. Hopefully the following listed below will be considered for improving the existing AI opponents:

1) Multiple AI personalities available which are randomly selected at the start of each game. This would keep human players surprised and uncertain what to expect from their neighbors.

2) Providing option to disable/enable starving status for AI units. The AI opponents are not aware of food supply levels within provinces and thus should not suffer the penalties of starving which include diseased units and low morale.

3) Allow scripting or some other tool where Users can develop and customize an artificial intelligence which can then be added to the list of random multiple personalities.

4) Don't have computer opponents send their pretender into the death matches. The battle afflictions, horror marks, and curses are not worth the risk.

5) Higher difficulty setting should have the computer opponents be more aggressive against human opponents as well. This makes sense since its the human player looking for a greater challenge when increasing the difficulty level.


I'm sure there are others but these will greatly improve the AI for the game. Double Thanks !

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Simple suggestion: More feedback regarding stealth, or at least more goodies in the manual. I honestly have no idea how effective a +30 stealth modifier is, how effective a patroller is, or how said effectivities counterbalance. If you were to ask me which was more likely to be caught:
A) 40 stealthy(+30) units vs 20 patrollers
B) 5 stealthy(+0) units vs 20 patrollers
C) 1 stealthy(+30) unit vs 50 patrollers
D) And so on, and so forth,

I wouldn't have the vaguest idea. I'm not even sure if 20 patrollers are always twice as effective as 10 patrollers, or 20 sneaking troops twice as effective as 40.
This should not be. I'd like to see stealthy armies and agents work as a result of a well-conceived battle plan, not a shot in the dark and a stroke of luck.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Disagreed. I always hatehatehateHATEit when a game goes out of it's way to foil me, the player. You'd think those friggin' Darloks would accept my offer of peace, after all the free tech I've given them, especially considering my ability to burninate their space-cottages in the blink of an eye, but no, they're predisposed to hate me, simply because I'm Player_1. Makes everything seem less like a gameworld, more like a game.
To me, higher difficulty implies no more than tougher, cannier neighbors, not some sort of partisan, anti-human computer bias. I'm happy with the system as it presently stands. Tougher nations, greater challenge.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't want too much programming time wasted on the nation AI (besides the developers, I guess). Dom3 could be a great single player game if it had great AI, but with the limited resources of Illwinter, I'd much rather they just cut their losses and focus on making another great multiplayer game. But maybe that's just because I view single player Dom2 as just a place to practice for multi.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Nothing could be more wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

My opinion exactly. There are whole organisations creating AIs and still their robots bump into flagpoles and try to mate with rocks.

Considering the resources available for this project. I'd advice to do only the necessary tweaks to AI. Maybe try to improve the battlefield behavior of both player and AI troops a little bit. On grander scale, maybe some randomness into AI troop movements. I hate to be able to channel the AI to attack where I want it to attack just by tinkering with PDs.

A more random attck path would give a very impressive picture of the AI. A simple "not always attacking the most logical province"-rule would definitely result in some: "Whoa! The super-smart AI actually bypassed my trap!" -reactions.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I need to agree again: SP is there for learning, MP is for playing! I do not understand how a strategy game can be fun in SP. Its just some Maths and Randomness, but no clever design and hideous scheme behind the marching armies. And furthermore, the AI doesnt even bother if conquered by your ingenious plan... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I agree that Illwinter shouldn't spend their precious resources improving the strategic AI. But they should spend their precious resources opening up and documenting the turn protocol so that modsters can implement their own strategic AIs. Then Illwinter can take the best of those and put them into Dom3. ;-)

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

As a solo-player I would love to see more done in AI, but Ive accepted that it would be purely a personal wishlist item. It cant be a "broke" or "must have" because of the kind of game it is. In fact, many of the "absolutely important to fix" things I see should automatically be scaled back to "well I personally think it would be great" wishlist things if people keep in mind that Dominions is a multi-platform Play-by-EMail MultiPlayer game. Thats what it is. Thats what it does well. Thats a market where there are few other games that can come anywhere near being a competition to Dominions. And it also tends to make some things harder to add to it than other things without drastically changing what the game is. I cant loudly want Illwinter to make an effort to spread themselves into other market niches unless its something they want to do. I would rather see them happily and excitedly pile on the things they do well than to see them force themselves into a shift of direction. Make your pitches folks but if you cant convince Illwinter to WANT to do it, then the results wouldnt be worth pursuing InMyHumbleOpinion

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I agree that allowing people to mod the AI is a great idea I'd love to see. We could see some very challenging AI that way, much better than the developers could make.

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

Once again, Gandalf speaks words of wisdom...

A good AI is always a good thing for a game, but it's something that takes a lot of work, and Illwinter should most likely focus on their strengths: Dom2 is great for its amount and variety of content, and because it fills a niche in the "deep, multiplayer-oriented, PBEM game" genre. With limited programming/development ressources (I guess), they should try to improve in this direction, or similar ones, instead of "wasting" efforts in orthogonal directions.

Now, exporting configuration to outside, moddable files, is also a good thing. Allowing for AI customization, if it can be added, would let the community of players try to improve on the supposedly dreadful AI - or, at least, we'd get to see if the "itshouldgothisway"ers and "justdothis"ers can actually improve on it, or just talk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Dominions 3 Announced
 

I'd like to see a solution to the problem that led me to give up Dom2. For me, the game is not fun if I've been losing for a good while, and in the late-game it can be not-fun even if I'm winning. There's no point in playing if you're not having fun.

The problem is that there is no way (short of finding a sub) to exit from the game without spoiling it for the remaining players.

Maybe make the quitter's provinces impassable and out of the game? I don't know - I don't claim to have a solution, I'm just putting the issue forward for discussion because I don't believe I'm alone in thinking it's important.

EDIT: Oops, just noticed the wishlist thread.