Moons
 

Does anyone else find it really annoying that the moons in the game are

A) Always small or tiny no matter how big the planet is

B) always have no atmosphere

It seems to me that I should be able to find moons with atmospheres, twin worlds, and so on, interesting places to explore, not just one repeat of earths moon after the next.

Re: Moons
 

1) If they were too big, they'd escape the gravitational pull of their planet and either float away or create their own orbit and become planets.

2) The only moons of which I have heard that may be habitable (ie, have some sort of atmosphere) were around huge gas giants (Jupiter).

2) The gravitational pull of small & tiny moons would be prohibitive to maintaining an atmosphere. There does seem to be a descrepancy here as the moons are the same size as the small & tiny planets, however, I imagine that this was done in the interests of expediency.

My two cents worth http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif




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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

Re: Moons
 

By the way....I THINK I remember seeing a moon with ruins on it once....



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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

Re: Moons
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyder:
By the way....I THINK I remember seeing a moon with ruins on it once....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ruins on small moons orbiting a planet has happened more than once in the games I've played.



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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: Moons
 

Four moons, Io, Ganymede, titan, and tritan have atmopsheres in our own solar system, in addition to this the moon of pluto is so large that many astronomers consider it a seperate orbiting planet, being slightly over half as large as its mate.

Statistically this is pretty good proof that moons with atmpospheres and binary planetary systems not only exist but are fairly common, after all the solar system itself only has nine planets.

Of course I have to admit that the four moons with atmopheres are around the gas giants, as are most moons in our system.

Breaking down our solar system we have

4 rock planets
4 gas giants
1 ice planet
an astroid belt

The smaller rock planets have a smaller number moons, Earth having one and Mars having two. The ice planet has one moon almost it's own size, and the gas giants (which are as numerous as the rock planets) have countless moons. The average gas giant having ten to twenty moons.

It's not surprising that the few moons with atmospheres, and many more with other interesting features, orbit the gas giants rather then the few moons found around the rock planets, or the lone ice planet (pluto)


[This message has been edited by Windborne (edited 01 March 2001).]

Re: Moons
 

I think they ought to have giants that are too large to inhabit, but with habitable moons. Would make for fun tactical combat.

Re: Moons
 

Well, I guess you will be interested in my new quadrant mod then. I have made 36 new standard systems that have more logic in placement (read - they are less random), so there won't be any ice oxygen planets right next to bright white star, or lots of nebulas in ancient quadrant (it is a theory that new stars are created in nebulas and they should be very rare in and old and dying galaxy - they are not typical storms). There are things you mentioned (in small quantities of course) like moons that have atmosphere and moons that have small size (or both). There are also two new star types - White Giant and Red Dwarf with their picture. The mod is FINISHED, but I am playtesting it now.
Btw. it can be used with Modpack and any other non-quadrant mod.

Re: Moons
 

Right you are, but, as I said most would not necessarily have atmospheres. The only one large enough to be called a planet seems to be in a binary planet symbiosis (gravitationally speaking) with Pluto supporting that if its too big, it becomes its own planet. But in all cases (I believe) the moons are Rock...no gas moons, no ice moons (probably are, but, this is further into Astronomy than I ventured http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and very few (comparatively) with atmospheres; all of which are around our largest gas giant.

In most cases the mass of the moon simply prohibits the ability to maintain an atmosphere...I have no idea why Jupiter's moons do...but, it takes a significant gravitational pull to hold any type of gas (atmosphere) in orbit and obviously they have it (with mother Jupiter's help, I'd guess).

But, back to the game....just build an atmosphere renewer on it and use it as a storage facility & shipyard. That is what I use all the Tiny planets for.



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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

Re: Moons
 

There is no way that a planet could help a moon hold on to atmosphere. Jupiter's moons are just big, thats all.

Tiny planets would almost all be 'none' atmospheres (as well as moons)

Small planets would usually have atmospheres, and some of the biggest moons would be small planet size.

Assuming Earth-mars-venus type planets are the small end of medium sized (SE4 homeworld size)

Re: Moons
 

Um, you guys better review basic astronomy. Those 4 moons with atmospheres are not all around Jupiter. Io and Ganymede are, but Titan orbits Saturn, and Triton orbits Neptune.
Also, it is wrong to call Pluto's moon, Charon, a planet, because a planet is a large body orbiting a star. Moons orbit planets. And in general, anything that orbits something else is a satellite.
And there are ice moons in our solar system. Europa (Jupiter) is the most famous, since it is believed to be able to support life under its ice layer.

Re: Moons
 

No argument with either of you guys...however, I would like to know what's under that ice on Europa....rock maybe? or, is it just one big ball of ice? If its rock, does that make it an ICE planet/moon or a ROCK planet/moon?

And, as for Charon, it is a planet-sized moon which probably affects Pluto nearly as much as Pluto affects it....kinda like a binary star system...soooo...is it a planet with a moon, or two planets? The question is even more valid if there is question of its orbit...it was mentioned that some think it has its own orbit...&lt;shrug&gt;

The idea I was originally was trying to point out was that moons don't usually have enough mass to hold an atmosphere. That is probably why, in the game, all moons are rock with no atmosphere (that and the sake of simplicity).


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Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

[This message has been edited by Spyder (edited 01 March 2001).]

Re: Moons
 

Actually, half the moons are ice in SE4.

In fact, most moons are ice, but only if you're a Rock/None race. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 01 March 2001).]

Re: Moons
 

Here's some numbers for you, guys.

Earth's moon has a 1738 km radius, making it a little over one-fourth the width of the earth. It's a rocky moon with a high density (around 3300 kg/m^3), giving it a surface gravity of about 1/6th G.

Ganymede (Jupiter), Callisto (Jupiter), and Titan (Saturn) are all icy moons, meaning that their average density is rather low, around 1500 kg/m^3. They're all around the same size, about 2600 km in radius, making them about 40% the width of Earth. Since they have approximately the same density and size, it's not surprising they have similar gravities, all about 1/7th of G. Note that although these moons have similar stats, they're pretty different otherwise; Titan has a methane atmosphere, and Europa may be liquid water under an icy shell.

While we're on Jupiter, let's not forget Io. This is a rocky moon about the same size as Earth's moon, but a little denser. Io's gravity is about 1/5.5 ths of G. Of course, Io being a *molten* rocky moon studded with volcanoes doesn't make it very habitable. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Finally we have Triton, the true gem of our solar system as far as moons go. Triton is about the same size as Earth's Moon, but is very dense, making it a rocky moon, although its surface is covered with ice. Triton's gravity is 0.29 G -- which sounds pretty comfortable. Unfortunately, at a surface temperature of 38 K (-235 Celsius, or -391 F), its atmosphere is mostly hydrogen and if it rains at all, it's raining liquid helium. So I'd have to say its planetary conditions are 'Unpleasant'. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The distinguishing feature between icy and rocky worlds seems to be their density, which has direct effects on their gravity, surface structure, and magnetic field. Icy moons are low gravity with no mag field. Rocky moons are higher gravity, with a mag field possible.

All data taken or calculated from the tables in my astrophysics book. If you find I've made a mistake somewhere, let me know! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Shepherd (edited 01 March 2001).]

Re: Moons
 

Well, by definition, rock is ice, a solid form of some silicate most likely. The truth is that ice planets are really planets that have things normally not frozen on Earth that are frozen on that planet. Ammonia, Methane, water, etc. are all stuff that is normally seen unfrozen on earth and most other planets in the system. But ice planets for whatever reason have these gasses/liquids actually frozen to, and acting as the surface. Europa has an ice surface, and some form of liquid ocean underneath. Under that, of course, is a solid basin of some sort.

Re: Moons
 

The earth's moon has quite a few unique features that have puzzled our scientists for quite a long time now. As was pointed out below, the ratio of the size of our moon to the earth is abnormally high as moons go. Truely our moon is a giant in our solar system. It rivals the gas giant's moons. There are a lot of other odd things about it like the fact that it always keeps one side facing the earth at all times as it orbits. Also, when one the Apollo missions set up a seismic station on the moon and then dropped part of the LEM back onto the moon after they left, the interior of the moon rang like a bell for hours, puzzling the hell out of the NASA geologists. There are also some other really, really strange things about our moon that cause the curious of mind to wonder..

[This message has been edited by ColdSteel (edited 01 March 2001).]

Re: Moons
 

Cool info. If you find a website which talks about this, let me know. Interesting stuff!

Re: Moons
 

I borrowed Possum's webferret and immediately found this: http://keelynet.com/unclass/luna.htm

There are also some books on the subject. I read Don Wilson's books (referenced on the above site) 20+ years ago and was fascinated by them.

Re: Moons
 

Thanks, much!

BTW, what did your search on? Lunar Anomaly?

Thanks again.

Re: Moons
 

*Cough*... BS...*cough*...

I hate to kill the theorey of a giant alien base inside the moon, but just about everything said in that article is dead wrong.

Of course it does make for a good laugh.

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Assume you have a 1kg squirrel
E=mc^2
E=1kg(3x10^8m/s)^2=9x10^16J
which, if I'm not mistaken, is equivilent to roughly a 50 megaton nuclear bomb.
Fear the squirrel.

Re: Moons
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Does anyone else find it really annoying that the moons in the game are
A) Always small or tiny no matter how big the planet is

B) always have no atmosphere

It seems to me that I should be able to find moons with atmospheres, twin worlds, and so on, interesting places to explore, not just one repeat of earths moon after the next.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do this, find a system with a few planets that have moons. Preferably more than one. Destroy the system with a star killer. Re-ignite a new star, and create planets out of the ruble. You may be surprised at what the moons are turned into.

Re: Moons
 

The only moon in the solar system as far as I know that has an atmosphere worth mentioning is Titan (saturn). IIRC its about twice the density of earths, the other moons atmospheres are close to vacuum.

And for pluto and charon: at this moment there's quite a discussion about whether pluto is even worthy of having a planetary status. It's a very small world (2370 KM across), even far smaller then our own moon (3500 KM across) . Charon is half the size of Pluto. They found a lot of space rocks like pluto, even one that could be more than half it's size (800 to 1300 KM) and they keep finding more. Follow this link for information:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci...00/1054157.stm

Re: Moons
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shepherd:
Here's some numbers for you, guys...

{Snip (cool info edited for brevity...scroll down to see it)}

If you find I've made a mistake somewhere, let me know! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Shepherd (edited 01 March 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool info Shepherd http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I always like learning stuff http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Moons
 

A bit away from the original topic (fixing the stupid moons) I have found out through an experimental game that choosing ice/none can be a fairly easy way to trick other human players, ice/none moons are fairly common and if you also choose "advanced resource storage" they give you a moderate number of facilities, the big boost is other human playes can't see them when they enter the system. lol

Re: Moons
 

You can see them if you look carefully at the map. There would be a triangle, instead of a circle, indicating another empire is present in the system somewhere. Than, all you would have to do is start cliking around.